When Does Life Begin?

I wouldn't have to think twice about what choice I would make; I'd save the 50. I've lived a very good life, and at my age, saving 50 has much more value.

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Cyracuz wrote:

How about another scenario to up the odds a bit.

Imagine that 50 people you don't know personally are in mortal danger. If you do nothing they will die. You have a chance to save them, but to do that you must die yourself.
What do you do?

Maybe this sounds cruel, but my own life means more to me than those of 50 strangers. I'd walk away.

Of course the problem with this and other 'lifeboat' scenarios is that they do not reflect reality.

If you saw a bus on fire, I doubt you'd walk away. You'd probably do what you could, even endangering yourself.

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RL

That scenarion does reflect reality, allthough the one with the bus and napalm is more far fetched. But what would you do in the case of the 50 people?

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I would follow Christ's example and lay down my life for the others.

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Assuming that christ really did what the bible says he did, do you think he still would have done it if he knew what would follow from it?

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I still haven't heard of a good reason why jesus needed to be sacrificed to appease god. Why does god need any sacrifice that was temporary at best?

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Run 4 fun wrote:

I would follow Christ's example and lay down my life for the others.

Go ahead, aim for becoming some sort of new messiah, have Christ reborn through your death, it's been tried before, let me know how it works out, don't forget to send a postcard!

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First, one who was sinless had to take the punishment for sin in order for salvation to even be possible. I would not be aiming to be any kind of messiah, Chumly, but to point to the Messiah. I can save no one from their sin. You guys could easily find answers to questions like why Christ had to be crucified if you did some simple research...

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The research has been done. That's how they know to question "Why."

I don't have any idea how I would react to the 50 people. I think that's a major instinctual thing that one couldn't know until it happened. I also believe life yearns for life.

If one were to save the 50 and die in the process, who's to say that was the best outcome? What if Einstein had sacrificed himself for those of us on this board? Has anyone here made an Einstein sized contribution from their saved life?

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Run 4 fun wrote:

First, one who was sinless had to take the punishment for sin in order for salvation to even be possible. I would not be aiming to be any kind of messiah, Chumly, but to point to the Messiah. I can save no one from their sin. You guys could easily find answers to questions like why Christ had to be crucified if you did some simple research...

Yeah, 'cause we've never heard this wonderful message before Rolling Eyes

There's no difference between your fairytale and that of the Flying Spagetti Monster (SBUH)

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Run 4 fun,
do you believe pigs can fly?

If yes, can you show me how this is true?
If no, can you show me how this is true?
If maybe, why are you not sure?

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Cyracuz wrote:

RL

That scenarion does reflect reality, allthough the one with the bus and napalm is more far fetched. But what would you do in the case of the 50 people?

No, it does not reflect reality.

But if I saw 1 or 50 persons in mortal danger, I would do what I could to save them, even risking myself.

There would be no way for me to know that I would die for certain. That is one of several reasons why your scenario does not reflect reality.

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Of course there could be a scenario in which you could know that you would die.

Fifty people who don't know how to operate a veichle are gathered near to it. There's a bomb on the car, and the only way to save the people is to drive the car away. But there is no way to get the car to safe distance and then get yourself to safe distance from the car. So if you chose to drive it away you will die in the explosion.

If I had the time I'd shower you with realistic scenarios. The one I provided is perhaps far fetched, but it is possible that such a scenario can become reality somewhere, someday.

And you might try to show how this is unrealistic, try to invent options where there's a chance you'll live, but it will only be dodging the question.

For myself, I would put myself at risk to save someone who were in trouble, but if death was sure I would not unless it was someone I cared about.

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The question is so full of holes that anyone who questions it, is 'dodging it', eh? Well , so be it.

How about the question that is topic of the thread?

It is not, 'would you choose to sacrifice your life?' but rather 'when does life begin?' , and by extension 'when does one therefore have a right to life that is protected by law?'

If the abortion subject was about the unborn voluntarily choosing to end his life in sacrifice to please the folks who want him dead, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But does a parent have a right to end their child's life for their own (the parent's) convenience?

Where we veered off this discussion was when it was asserted that the parent is the 'custodian' of the child's rights and therefore can decide for him to end his life.

I asked the question why a parent , who is still the 'custodian' of the child's medical rights and will be for quite a few years to come, does not have the right to terminate a newborn on a whim for their own (the parent's ) convenience?

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real life wrote:

Where we veered off this discussion was when it was asserted that the parent is the 'custodian' of the child's rights and therefore can decide for him to end his life.

You wish. It speaks directly to your second question. The qualifier is not measured in time.

Quote:

I asked the question why a parent , who is still the 'custodian' of the child's medical rights and will be for quite a few years to come, does not have the right to terminate a newborn on a whim for their own (the parent's ) convenience?

It has been answered by me and others, you CHOOSE to not acknowledge that it has been answered. Your ignorance has no boundry. Open your ears and eyes, place your fingers on the keys, and acknoledge people when they address you.

I don't think anyone would have a problem stopping responding to your posts if you don't acknowledge others.

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Ronald Reagan said: "No one who disbelieves in God and in an afterlife can possibly be trusted." Would you agree with that real life?

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RL

It's very simple. Would you sacrifice your life to save 50 strangers?

It is a yes or no question.

As for the thread question; it is also easily answered. Life; human life, begins at the fourth month of the pregnancy. Why? Because we've drawn the line there.

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Real is not ready to sacrifice himself for anybody; he just wants to control the life of all the women in this world who becomes pregnant.

Logic? NONE.

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Cyracuz wrote:

RL

It's very simple. Would you sacrifice your life to save 50 strangers?

It is a yes or no question.

I answered :

Quote:

if I saw 1 or 50 persons in mortal danger, I would do what I could to save them, even risking myself.

How much clearer can I make it?

Cyracuz wrote:

As for the thread question; it is also easily answered. Life; human life, begins at the fourth month of the pregnancy. Why? Because we've drawn the line there.

In your country, abortion is illegal after 3 months , but not in other countries.

The question of human life is a medical one, however.

Medically, when does a living human being exist?

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Chumly wrote:

Ronald Reagan said: "No one who disbelieves in God and in an afterlife can possibly be trusted." Would you agree with that real life?

Instead of sidetracking this thread, why don't you start another if you wish to follow up that line of thinking, Chumly?

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When Does Life Begin?

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