When Does Life Begin?

real life wrote:

No, you don't 'lose' anything. You've already been born, so abortion doesn't affect you.

You want to feign indifference, yet you relentlessly support and advocate the MOST extreme pro-abortion position possible, i.e. that abortion should be legal up to the point of birth.

Even partial birth abortions are ok with you, aren't they CI?

cicerone imposter wrote:

real (in desperation) wrote: "...even when the unborn has measurable brain waves you still are in favor of killing him."

real, Your imagination is again escaping your brains. Show me where I've ever made this statement or imiplied such? PLEASE.

In other words: For the sake of arguement, you lie constantly. If you can't use your rational mind to win an arguement, don't lie. You're such a coward.

0 Replies

Terry wrote:

A sane woman wouldn't endure 9 months of pregnancy and then arbitrarily demand the abortion of a healthy fetus, and no doctor would perform it.

I agree.

I didn't say that women who have abortions are thinking rationally.

And I don't think that abortionists are worthy of the term 'doctor'.

0 Replies

"When does life begin?" What sort of an answer are you looking for? 8.30am Tuesday morning? 15 weeks gestation? Its a silly question. Life has no easily identifiable beginning or end. Its a process...with changes.

0 Replies

real life wrote:

I didn't say that women who have abortions are thinking rationally.

And I don't think that abortionists are worthy of the term 'doctor'.

Abortion is a rational decision for many women in many situations. Just not at the brink of delivery, which you have fixated on for some reason in your argument with ci even though abortions aren't ever performed then.

Perhaps early abortions could be performed by the equivelent of dental hygienists, but only doctors should be allowed to perform surgical ones.

0 Replies

Steve 41oo wrote:

"When does life begin?" What sort of an answer are you looking for? 8.30am Tuesday morning? 15 weeks gestation? Its a silly question. Life has no easily identifiable beginning or end. Its a process...with changes.

Exactly.
We all agree that Life has occured by birth. We all agree that eggs and sperm individually do not constitute Life. That leaves 9 months in dispute, which would not be a problem if it weren't for the people trying desparately to impose an arbitrary and scientifically indefensible definition of Life on women who choose to abort unwanted embryos and researchers who want to experiment with stem cells.

0 Replies

In norway, abortions are legal up to the twelth week of the pregnancy. I guess that implies that life begins the first day of the thirteenth week.

My point is that when a merging of egg and sperm are to be considered a living human being is a matter of definition. It's a human when we say it is.

0 Replies

Terry wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
"When does life begin?" What sort of an answer are you looking for? 8.30am Tuesday morning? 15 weeks gestation? Its a silly question. Life has no easily identifiable beginning or end. Its a process...with changes.

Exactly.
We all agree that Life has occured by birth. We all agree that eggs and sperm individually do not constitute Life. That leaves 9 months in dispute, which would not be a problem if it weren't for the people trying desparately to impose an arbitrary and scientifically indefensible definition of Life on women who choose to abort unwanted embryos and researchers who want to experiment with stem cells.

Really?

How arbitrary is your definition of when life begins, Terry?

You claim that 'awareness' is not possible until the 24th week.

How comfortable are you with killing an unborn child at 23 weeks, 6 days, 12 hours?

Are you absolutely sure he/she is not a human being yet?

How about 23 weeks , 6 days, 1 hour?

Still sure he/she is not, cannot be a living human being yet?

Your definition is arbitrary. You simple don't recognize it.

What if and when doctors show that the neural connections that you deem necessary to define a human are sometimes present at 22 weeks?

How comfortable will you be in having sanctioned abortions based on your earlier, erroneous view of when human life begins?

How far back are you willing to give the benefit of the doubt?

Brainwave activity is detectable as early as 6 weeks. Why is that brain activity 'not human'?

Your requirement that 'awareness' must define humanness is the scientifically indefensible position, Terry.

We have shown that the neural connections you deem necessary for humanness are sometimes damaged and regrown by accident victims.

Were they 'not human' while they were injured? Would it have been OK to kill them?

0 Replies

Quite simply, there is no way of scientifically knowing when human life begins, so just don't even risk murder Exclamation

You don't know wether it is or isn't, so if it is and you kill him/her, it's manslaughter. If it's not and you kill it, it's reckless behavior. Both manslaughter and reckless behavior are punishable by the law to some extent, so why isn't abortion? It must be one or the other.

0 Replies

Hmm.. So you are suggesting that if two teenagers are having sex, and she becomes pregnant by accident, it is not ok to abort the pregnancy?

That this girl then has to become a mother at age fifteen is ok? The boy likely splits, since there is no burden on him apart from maybe some financial contributions he's committed to make, and he's only fifteen, so he has no concept of responsibility.

No, abortion isn't murder. In fact, if more people were to take the option of abortion when they're not ready to have children the world would be a better place. Many mothers who get pregnant unexpectedly at a very young age take it out on their children that their youth was robbed from them. Is that preferable?

0 Replies

Cyracuz wrote:

Hmm.. So you are suggesting that if two teenagers are having sex, and she becomes pregnant by accident, it is not ok to abort the pregnancy?

That this girl then has to become a mother at age fifteen is ok? The boy likely splits, since there is no burden on him apart from maybe some financial contributions he's committed to make, and he's only fifteen, so he has no concept of responsibility.

No, abortion isn't murder. In fact, if more people were to take the option of abortion when they're not ready to have children the world would be a better place. Many mothers who get pregnant unexpectedly at a very young age take it out on their children that their youth was robbed from them. Is that preferable?

How about when people are not ready to have children, then they don't do what makes children! Imagine a conversation with the unborn child: "Look, I just wanted to satisfy my erotic desires, even though there was a chance that it would cause you who I didn't want to come into being. So I'm going to have to kill you now. Okay?"

Somehow, that doesn't cut it. I'm sorry but when she gave her body up to enjoy sex, she took the risk of responsibility, and she has to deal with this child in some way other than killing him/her. Let's not speculate about, "I don't think the child would like his/her life, so let's destroy him/her and spare us all his/her existence." Your preference: possible struggles and abuse and yet the possibility of a rewarding life or being killed and skipping the whole thing before it begins and going on to whatever is next for you. Question

0 Replies

Give your ideologies a rest, would you? It is easy to suggest that if you're not ready to have children, then don't fu*k.

But we cannot expect teenagers to have that kind of insight or self dicipline. Should they be punished for that because some ideologists don't like what they see?

0 Replies

As a teenager, I know that we can expect teenagers to have some discipline and harness their desires, especially when it could have such drastic, harmful effects on others. I'm not punishing them, they did. They messed up, they have to learn from it. Abortion may seem a better, easier way, but we don't know that it's not murder, so it's not a choice that we can consider to solve the problem.
How about this: What if the girl's father was strict, and gave her responsibilities that she couldn't handle? He stole her youth from her, so is it fine for her to kill him? No! How much more then should the child not be killed who has done nothing to the girl. The father did it in one, and killing him is wrong. In the other, the girl did it to herself, but you say it's fine to kill the child? Question

0 Replies

We don't know that it's not murder? That's ridiculous.

We know that it is not murder, since "murder" is a term defined by us. If we define abortion as murder, then it is. But until we do that, it is not.

And a week old joining of egg and sperm is not a child.

In many countries babies born befrore the 25th week of pregnancy recieve no medical aid or life support. It is considered the moral choice to let these babies die.

0 Replies

Terry wrote:

We all agree that eggs and sperm individually do not constitute Life.

By what reasonable barometer are sperm not alive? They have all the organic / biological / physiological functionality to be classed as alive.

0 Replies

The sperm has a "limited" lifespan. If it's not used, it's "wasted." As for the egg, I'm not sure what their lifespan is, but also whether they are all viable to accept a sperm when their time comes to be "used."

0 Replies

Most life has a limited life span, although the amoebae is "immortal".

0 Replies

Cyracuz wrote:

We don't know that it's not murder? That's ridiculous.

We know that it is not murder, since "murder" is a term defined by us. If we define abortion as murder, then it is. But until we do that, it is not.

And a week old joining of egg and sperm is not a child.

Your answer implies several assumptions: First, that life has no real value unless we say it does. By that logic, we could say that the mentally retarded are of no value, say it's not murder and kill them. I doubt you really believe that. You assume that there is no Creator who could possible determine value to life rather than us. You assume the infallibility of society in their value opinions and ignore those sections of society who do say abortion is murder. Quite simply, your argument cannot hold up.

0 Replies

Run said: By that logic, we could say that the mentally retarded are of no value, say it's not murder and kill them.

That's not logic; that's redefining the egg and sperm as equivalent to a living, breathing, human.

0 Replies

Cyracuz wrote:

Hmm.. So you are suggesting that if two teenagers are having sex, and she becomes pregnant by accident, it is not ok to abort the pregnancy?

That this girl then has to become a mother at age fifteen is ok?

Have you never heard of adoption?

Why do you pretend that this 15 year old 'has to become a mother'?

Why do 'pro-choice' people pretend that the only choice is abortion?

0 Replies

I say save your sperms! Wiping them on the bed-sheets is murder!

0 Replies

When Does Life Begin?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know