real life wrote:And I consider most of the dating methods that are used to 'prove' long ages to be severely flawed by the use of unproven and unprovable assumptions, as well as the support for contradictory findings of 'age, and the willful ignoring of evidence which falsifies such.
And this argument has been proven false to you time and time again, using quite simple language and quite simple logic. Undisputable logic and evidence too.
You have been called on your dishonesty and disingenuity several times now. If nothing else, you consistently give the impression of dishonesty.
baddog1 wrote:You're right - dishonesty implies malicious intent -
Malicious intent doesn't even factor into it. All it requires is not knowingly not telling the truth, regardless of motive...
The fallacy of argument from authority. Well done, RL, I wondered when you'd resort to that.
Tell me, if medical science proves that a human being is born from the moment an egg is fertilised, does that mean a chimera is two human beings? Does that mean identical twins are both half a human being each?
Science does not support your claim. Only semantics.
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:Bartikus wrote:Any malice OR intent with my sperms? Nope. Then abortion more resembles it.
I already answered.
humans beget humans....and not because I say so or even because you agree!
That answers nothing. You said that human life begins at conception. Fair enough? Right, so if two oocytes are fertilised, according to you, then two lives are formed? Right so far? If those are fused together to form a chimera, then what happens to the two lives? Do they become one or does one die for the other?
If one oocyte is fertilised, one human life is created, according to you, right? If it then splits, does that mean the twins, according to your logic, are half a human each?
If you don't answer, I will assume you think twins are half-human and chimeras are superhuman.
Why would an identical twin be half human? Are you worried about twins being treated as less than human and chimeras being treated a superhuman over others?
In identical twinning their are 2 conceptions that occur right?
This would point to the possibility that the unborn have the ability to reproduce.....you know like a mother and father! Like a full fledged human being of a woman with rights and everything.
God's hand is there!
This is what the Lord says---your redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.
Isaiah 44:24
Maybe the chimeras are 2 halfs making one whole! Kinda like it takes a Man and woman to make a marriage...and a baby. Maybe they are soulmates?
Just as God intended. Now what?
"brave one"
God loves you! Wolf. He formed you.
Did you plan to make a charge?
Can you tell me why diamonds contain C14?
BART - You are a coward of the first order sir, and you deserve no respect. You answer is heard loud and clear. You had the option to retain respect but CHOSE to not take it. You are a failure of the species.
Sentient, and audible, yet no voice or thoughts of your own. You sir are an empty vessel, a puppet, and you make no contribution to this or any other conversation.
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real life wrote:
Well, that opens an interesting question.
Does helping the weak to survive actually contradict evolution?
It would seem that anything that is a drain on the time, resources etc of the individual and/or the society would be counter to the tendency of evolution to let the strong thrive and the weak die.
So, if one helps the weak, then evolution is being thwarted.
The answer is NO.
I think some clarification is in order. The weak are not what dies. What dies is the creature poorly FIT for a given enviroment.
Weakness has nothing to do with natural selection or evolution. It's "survival of the FITTEST," not "survival of the STRONGEST."
You're arguing against things which you have no understanding of. I hope you enjoy looking like a fool and being called on it.
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P.s. - Abortion and Evolution don't belong in the same dialogue.
real life wrote:
Which could explain why many hardcore evolutionists generally seem to be anti-religion.
They may see religion's teachings regarding uplifting and protecting the ill, the weak, the elderly etc to be impeding evolution.
What you are saying is first false, and secondly ingenuine. Take a look at the mega churches in the midwest. Take a look at our weathly religious right. Take a look at what they have done to our health care system, our schools and our social security. I call BS, your BS.
real life wrote:
There is little doubt that abortion has increased phenomenally in the past few decades, as also child abuse has.
What has increased is people reporting child abuse.
real life wrote:
This coincides with the teaching of evolution becoming more entrenced in the government schools.
I guess it also coincides with increased freedoms for the LGBT community, women, and having access to the internet.
real life wrote:
So is the promotion of abortion just a function of one's belief in evolution?
NO. You wish.
real life wrote:
After all, if human life is of no more value than , say a dog's life, or a flea, then what should one do if another gets in the way of our own convenience?
If someone gets in your way you do what your religious leaders tell you to do. Bomb the **** out of their country, and care less about the collateral damage. But most importantly, remember that it's a "crusade." Remember, you're actually helping them. Just keep you mind focused on the image of them waving american flags and welcoming us in. Hold on to that image and damn anyone else. Don't lecture me about people getting in the way.
The religious conservative right elects the most tyranical unethical people into office on religious grounds, and then defends their champion as he does exactly the opposite of they claim to be what they believe in.
Remember republicans, just smile and say you're pro-life, and the votes will just poor in from the scared shitless religious folk.
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It's ok Diest...you don't need to answer the questions if you don't like.
Baddog1 - You posted to cheers RL on his correlation between abortion and evolution, yet it would have made more sence to quote my responce and counter the points I made instead. RL's correlation was quickly shut down off of his miseducation on the topic, and argeeing with him only means you a additionally have the same misinformation. If you actually agree with RL, go back and please address my comments.
Bartikus - I asked you to restate the question. I also asked you to take my survey. Why have you chosen to not honor my request? I've decided to play nice, but you're testing my limits here.
Why did you choose to not to fill out my survey? What are you affraid of? Aren't you ready to defend your beliefs?
next, i'll trymy best to answer your question, but know in advance that it doesn't make sense.
Quote:Would a twin or clone be a reproduction of a cell? When you say a zygote splits and is an accident....do you mean that the zygote did not intend to split or replicate?
As I understand SCNT, the "reproduction" of a cell produces a twin. Next, I never said anything about zygotes splitting by accident. "Accident" is a interesting choice of words, concidering, what happens without human intervention is natural and hard to classify as accidental. Lastly, referering to the zygote's intention requires the claim that the zygote is sentient. That claim is not supported by science and is difficult to address. Zygotes don't have intentions.
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P.s. - Answer the survey in your next post. Choosing to not answer sill be concidered an answer too. The answer will be that you don't know what you believe, nor do you have the courage to defend it.
It's ok with me if you think im a coward...a puppet of the first degree....a failure of the species. I don't think you stand in a place where it matters.....I could be wrong.
I guess I don't really care much for having your respect.
Anyone who thinks they can evaluate and estimate my contribution to this and any other conversations i've had (that they know nothing of) has definite problems.
How you are able to do this is remarkable and not necessarily in a positive way.
I have felt like a failure many times before and there may be some truth to what you say. That's ok. Not everyone can be a winner all the time. I'm just a guy you know? Not like you but, just a guy all the same.
Then again, your comments towards me may have very little to do with me at all.
You may not have alot of my respect either but, i wish you well I hope you will be ok.
I find it interesting and mildly amusing when a member posts what he says is a survey when he is only asking one member to respond to the "survey" Dishonesty is no difference than cowardice to some. However, no cowardice has been displayed or proven.
I have yet to see much substance and am getting somewhat confused on the spiraling off into different directions to what the thread was, apparently, meant for.
It seems to be going more toward when life ends than when it begins. It has degenerated into more of argument for argument sake than toward a constructive discussion or debate on the topic.
FWIW
Bartikus wrote:It's ok Diest...you don't need to answer the questions if you don't like.
Oh really?
Diest TKO wrote:
Baddog1 - You posted to cheers RL on his correlation between abortion and evolution, yet it would have made more sence to quote my responce and counter the points I made instead. RL's correlation was quickly shut down off of his miseducation on the topic, and argeeing with him only means you a additionally have the same misinformation. If you actually agree with RL, go back and please address my comments.
Bartikus - I asked you to restate the question. I also asked you to take my survey. Why have you chosen to not honor my request? I've decided to play nice, but you're testing my limits here.
Why did you choose to not to fill out my survey? What are you affraid of? Aren't you ready to defend your beliefs?
next, i'll trymy best to answer your question, but know in advance that it doesn't make sense.
Quote:Would a twin or clone be a reproduction of a cell? When you say a zygote splits and is an accident....do you mean that the zygote did not intend to split or replicate?
As I understand SCNT, the "reproduction" of a cell produces a twin. Next, I never said anything about zygotes splitting by accident. "Accident" is a interesting choice of words, concidering, what happens without human intervention is natural and hard to classify as accidental. Lastly, referering to the zygote's intention requires the claim that the zygote is sentient. That claim is not supported by science and is difficult to address. Zygotes don't have intentions.
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P.s. - Answer the survey in your next post. Choosing to not answer sill be concidered an answer too. The answer will be that you don't know what you believe, nor do you have the courage to defend it.
No brain, no voice and no eyes. You losing all of your senses. Your method for that matter is senseless.
Bartikus wrote:It's ok with me if you think im a coward...a puppet of the first degree....a failure of the species. I don't think you stand in a place where it matters.....I could be wrong.
I guess I don't really care much for having your respect.
Spoken like a coward. I don't need to stand in a place that matters. Do yuo know the difference between your beliefs and mine?
It's not the composition. The difference is that I'm ready to be wrong, I'm ready to be honest and put what I believe out there. I'm ready to defend it, and I've got the arsenal. You're so scared of what happens when someone can hold you accountable for your beliefs. You aren't ready for if you're wrong. That's why you won't be bold. You won't take a risk. I make a lot of bold statements about this subject in particular, and I do so knowing that I'd better be ready to defend them. you have hid behind other's thoughts and worse you think you of the caliber to question othr's for their beliefs. I don't agree with Chumly or CI on many points on this issue, but the pro-choice belief is not founded on homogeny. I don't agree with half of what baddog or Neo posts, but they at least aren't affraid to put their beliefs out to be tested.
you came here, and you weren't ready, and it shows. You need my respect, but it doesn't lessen the fact that you don't have it. It's not my respect that you don't value, it's your respect.
Bartikus wrote:Anyone who thinks they can evaluate and estimate my contribution to this and any other conversations i've had (that they know nothing of) has definite problems.
I can do more than estimate, I can measure your usefulness. If I have to ask any person a question as many times as I have had to ask you, they're useless in a conversation. The questions are simple and they require no expertise, just your own opinion. The only source required is you. i can measure your contribution in the number of times I have had to request honest information out of you.
You have zero credibility.
Bartikus wrote:How you are able to do this is remarkable and not necessarily in a positive way.
My pleasure.
Bartikus wrote:I have felt like a failure many times before and there may be some truth to what you say. That's ok. Not everyone can be a winner all the time. I'm just a guy you know? Not like you but, just a guy all the same.
No you're not a man like me, and never make that mistake.
Bartikus wrote:Then again, your comments towards me may have very little to do with me at all.
Keep telling yourself that. It will make it easier to forget that I gave you a way out. I even extended a second chance for you to prove me wrong; prove to me that you did think and speak for yourself. You make your own choices, you can't hide behind someone else's words.
Bartikus wrote:You may not have alot of my respect either but, i wish you well I hope you will be ok.
A cowards respect isn't worth anything. I wish you well too sir, I only hope you develop a back bone and someday will be able to discover and then defend what you believe.
Until then, you're a coward. Not because I say so, because you choose to be one.
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A member? I'm right here, you can address me.
I asked several questions at once, and for that matter I have asked others at various times.
I think I adequately proved cowardice. You believe otherwise. I' backed my belief up, you've simply state yours.
And what is the hang up on the thread title. This is obviously a thread on the abortion et al related topics thread.
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Fetal medicine: treating the unborn patient
American Family Physician, Oct, 1995 by Pamela Camosy
The past 10 years have seen dramatic improvements in the understanding of fetal anatomy and physiology, as well as in the technology required to visualize the hidden world of the fetus. With advances in fetal medicine, the unborn patient is the focus more than ever before, with specialists from the fields of obstetrics, neonatology, surgery and even medical ethics and social services joining together. When a family physician is the primary physician, a working knowledge of the diagnostic and therapeutic approaches to the unborn patient will enhance the physician's role as advocate for the parents and their baby.
Guiding Principles of Prenatal Diagnosis and Treatment
The maternal-fetal relationship is unique in that it involves two inter-related patients. Physicians rarely visualize or touch the unborn patient directly. Instead they must rely on indirect means of diagnosis, always keeping in mind that the mother's safety and health are paramount and that fetal maneuvers may be undertaken only if they do not place her at inordinate risk.
The development of specific methods of prenatal therapy has stemmed, in large part, from frustration over the failure of neonatal treatment of some conditions. While treatment just after birth is effective for the majority of congenital abnormalities, for many conditions, such as erythroblastosis fetalis, neonatal therapy may be too little, too late. This frustration fortuitously coincided with exponential improvements in fetal ultrasound technology. Real-time ultrasonography provides a dynamic view of the fetus, and improved ultrasound resolution allows more detailed diagnosis. In addition, real-time sonography can be used to guide intricate treatment procedures.
While in the past prenatal therapy has been mostly empiric, experience and ethical considerations have yielded a logical and stepwise approach, which is outlined in Figure 1. Ideally, once the possibility of prenatal therapy is considered, many steps should be undertaken, including studies of animal models, before clinical use.[1] If therapy is successful in animal models, it is then attempted in human fetuses, with investigators reporting the results, even if negative, to one of several multicenter registries. This system allows the sharing of data and the development of patient selection criteria. In general, no prenatal treatment is given to a fetus with severe irreversible damage or a uniformly fatal abnormality.
When a fetus with an abnormality is identified, the clinical team must decide whether prenatal or postnatal treatment, or no treatment, is indicated. Options for postnatal treatment include induced preterm delivery (generally after 32 weeks, gestation) and term delivery, either vaginally or by means of cesarean section. Specialized personnel and equipment can be anticipated to enhance the baby's survival chances. Clinical criteria for selecting those patients suited for prenatal therapy are listed in Table 1.
Table 1
Criteria for Prenatal Therapy
Surgical Treatment of the Fetus
With improved imaging of the fetus came the possibility of applying neonatal surgical techniques to fetuses with anomalies. Fetal procedures range in complexity from needle aspiration of accumulated fluid to hysterotomy and exteriorization of the fetus for surgical repair.
UNIQUE ASPECTS OF PRENATAL SURGERY
Preterm labor is a risk inherent in all invasive procedures and is prevented through maternal administration of betamimetics or indomethacin (Indocin). A careful balance must be maintained between uterine relaxation and the risk of uterine hemorrhage.
Wound healing in the fetus after a surgical procedure is superior to wound healing in neonates. Acute inflammation, fibroplasia and collagen deposition do not occur. The amniotic fluid is a sterile environment rich in substances that stimulate a unique healing process. As a result, fetal skin heals without a scar.[14]
Fetal pain pathways function after six to eight weeks, gestation, often necessitating sedation and anesthesia for both mother and child.[15] Narcotics and benzodiazepines given to the mother enter the fetal circulation; general anesthesia administered to the mother will also anesthetize and immobilize the fetus.
To ensure a safe procedure, fetal paralysis can be effected with pancuronium (Pavulon), administered intravenously or intramuscularly to the fetus.[16]
SPECIFIC PROCEDURES
The most common type of invasive prenatal procedure is sonographically guided intrauterine shunt placement to drain abnormally accumulated fluid, thus allowing normal organ development. Varying degrees of success have been achieved in different fetal organ systems.
Obstructive uropathy, which results in oligohydramnios and pulmonary hypoplasia, is an example of a fetal anomaly that has been treated successfully prenatally. Prenatal treatment prevents irreversible renal damage and allows normal development of the kidneys and lungs. For these reasons, it is superior to neonatal treatment in select cases--specifically, in fetuces with obstruction but preserved renal function as assessed by fetal urinary production, ultrasonic appearance of the kidneys and chemical analysis of fetal urine.[17] Urinary diversion with a vesicoamniotic shunt placed under ultrasonic guidance (Figure 2, is now a routine procedure. Open urinary diversion--ureterostomy or vesicostomy--is being performed on select fetuses (Figure 3), with promising results.[3]
Intrauterine placement of a pleuroamniotic shunt is beneficial in some patients with significant pleural effusion. The mortality rate in untreated fetuses with pleural effusion is high because of compression and poor lung development. Early shunting can prevent such pulmonary hypoplasia.[18] In some fetuses, ascites is treated with paracentesis immediately before delivery to decompress the fetal abdomen for vaginal delivery.[3]
The morbidity and mortality associated with congenital hydrocephalus prompted early enthusiasm for the possibility of in utero shunt placement to allow normal brain development and improve neurologic outcome. During the 1980s, decompression was performed in carefully selected patients by inserting a valved shunt into the lateral ventricle, with the distal end draining into the amniotic fluid. Problems have included dislodgement and clogging of the shunt, but the greatest disappointment has been the lack of improvement in neurologic outcomes in shunted versus unshunted patients, as reported by the International Fetal Surgery Registry.[16] Shunts for hydrocephalus are currently not being placed, but methods for improving the technique and patient selection criteria are being studied.
Because most newborns with diaphragmatic hernia die of pulmonary failure despite appropriate neonatal care, prenatal correction was proposed to prevent compression of the developing lung. Several types of intervention are being studied. Perhaps the most dramatic involves hysterotomy and exteriorization of the fetus, followed by reduction of the bowel from the thorax and surgical repair of the diaphragmatic defect.[19] Several children are now thriving after successful hernia repair in utero. A less invasive technique called PLUG (plug the lung until it grows), involves endoscopic occlusion of the fetal trachea, which results in a beneficial accumulation of lung fluid. As lung volume expands, the herniated intestinal viscera are propelled through the diaphragmatic defect back into the abdomen.[20] Palliative surgery--creation of an artificial gastroschisis--reduces the viscera from the chest in preparation for postnatal diaphragm repair. Finally, immunologic tolerance for postnatal lung transplantation may be induced prenatally.[21] Other fetal procedures, such as those in Table 3,[16,13,16,22-27] are being performed in clinical and research settings.
[TABULAR DATA 3 OMITTED]
Open fetal cardiac surgery is theoretically possible, including ligation of the ductus arteriosus for tetralogy of Fallot, valvulotomy for pulmonic or aortic valve atresia and enlargement of the foramen ovale for hypoplastic left heart syndrome.[3]
Final Comment
Treatment of the unborn patient is an exciting endeavor that is itself in its infancy. The heretofore hidden world of the fetus is coming under closer scrutiny, and the scope of medicine, both its science and its humanity, has been forever broadened. Many prenatal treatments have been proved safe; many more must be subjected to prospective controlled trials to determine outcomes and selection criteria.
Research and clinical advances must be accompanied by exploration of social and ethical questions. In most medical centers where fetal therapy is performed, the many dimensions of each case are studied by an ethics committee of clinicians, ethicists and patient advocates.
Figure 2 reprinted with permission from Hobbins JC, Benacerraf BR, eds. Diagnosis and therapy of fetal anomalies. New York City: Churchill-Livingstone, 1989:273. Figure 3 reprinted with permission from Harrison MR, Golbus MS, eds. he unborn patient. Philadelphia: Saunders, 1990:384.
RELATED ARTICLE: Fetal Medicine Registries
International Fetal Surgery Registry Frank Manning, M.D., Department of Obstetrics-Gynecology, Women's Hospital, Health Sciences Center, 735 Notre Dame Ave., Winnepeg, Manitoba R3E OL8; 204-787-3991
Registry for Treated Cases of Metabolic Fetal Diseases Mark Evans, M.D., Department of Reproductive Genetics, Hutzel Hospital, 4707 St. Antoine, Detroit, MI 48201; 313-745-7066
Registry for Treated Fetuses with Cardiac Disease Charles Kleinman, M.D., Department of Pediatrics, 333 Cedar St., New Haven, CT 06510; 203-785-2022
[Figure 1-3 ILLUSTRATION OMITTED]
REFERENCES
[1.] Creasy RK, Resnik R, eds. Maternal-fetal medicine: principles and practice. 3d ed. Philadelphia: Saunders, 1994. [2.] Pinsky WW, Rayburn WF, Evans MI. Pharmacologic therapy for fetal arrhythmias. Clin Obstet Gynecol 1991;34:304-9. [3.] Harrison MR, Golbus MS, Filly RA, eds. The unborn patient: prenatal diagnosis and treatment. 2d ed. Philadelphia: Saunders, 1990. [4.] Copel JA, Cullen MT, Grannum PA, Hobbins JC. Invasive fetal assessment in the antepartum period. Obstet Gynecol Clin North Am 1990;17:201-21. [5.] Reece EA, Goldstein I, Chatwani A, Brown R Homko C, Wiznitzer A. Transabdominal needle embryofetoscopy: a new technique paving the way for early fetal therapy Obstet Gynecol 1994;84:634-6. [6.] Luks FI, Deprest JA, Vandenberghe K, Brosens IA, Lerut T. A model for fetal surgery through intrauterine endoscopy. J Pediatr Surg 1994; 29:1007-9. [7.] Weiner CP, Williamson RA, Wenstrom KD, Sipes SL, Widness JA, Grant SS, et al. Management of fetal hemolytic disease by cordocentesis. II. Outcome of treatment. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1991; 165 (Pt 1):1302-7. [8.] Miller RK. Fetal drug therapy: principles and issues. Clin Obstet Gynecol 1991;34:241-9. [9.] Morales WJ. Antenatal therapy to minimize neonatal intraventricular hemorrhage. Clin Obstet Gynecol 1991;34:328-35. [10.] Reece EA, et al., eds. Medicine of the fetus and mother. Philadelphia: Lippincott, 1992. [11.] Evans Ml, Schulman JD. In utero treatment of fetal metabolic disorders. Clin Obstet Gynecol 1991; 34:268-76. 12. Murphy MF, Waters AH, Doughty HA, Hambley H, Mibashan RS, Nicolaides K, et al. Antenatal management of fetomaternal alloimmune thrombocytopenia--a report of 15 affected pregnancies. Transfus Med 1994;4:281-92. [13.] Lin CC, Verp MS, Sabbagha RE, eds. The high-risk fetus. New York: Springer-Verlag, 1993. [14.] Adzick NS, Longaker MT, eds. Fetal wound healing. New York: Elsevier, 1992. [15.] Druffner M. What pain? Linacre Q 1987;51:79-85. [16.] Adzick NS, Harrison MR. Fetal surgical therapy. Lancet 1994;343:897-902. [17.] Gloor JM. Management of prenatally detected fetal hydronephrosis. Mayo Clin Proc 1995;70: 45-52. [18.] Becker R, Arabin B, Novak A, Entezami M, Weitzel HK. Successful treatment of primary fetal hydrothorax by long-time drainage from week 23. Fetal Diagn Ther 1993;8:331-7. [19.] Harrison MR, Adzick NS, Longaker MT, Goldberg JD, Rosen MA, Filly RA, et al. Successful repair in utero of a fetal diaphragmatic hernia after removal of herniated viscera from the left thorax N Engl J Med 1990;322:1582-4. [20.] Hedrick MH, Estes JM, Sullivan KM, Bealer JF, Kitterman JA, Flake AW, et al. Plug the lung until it grows (PLUG): a new method to treat congenital diaphragmatic hernia in utero. J Pediatr Surg 1994; 29:612-7. [21.] Ford WD. Fetal intervention for congenital diaphragmatic hernia. Fetal Diagn Ther 1"94;9:398408. [22.] Pinckert TL, Kiernan SC. In utero nephrostomy catheter placement. Fetal Diagn Ther 1994:9:348-52. [23.] Kyle PM, Lange IR, Menticoglou SM, Harman CR, Manning FA. Intrauterine thoracentesis of fetal cystic lung malformations. Fetal Diagn Ther 1,l94;9:84-7. [24.] Campbell WA, Yamase HT, Salafia CA, Vintzileos AM, Rodis JF. Fetal renal biopsy: technique development. Fetal Diagn Ther 1993;8:135-43. [25.] Meagher SE, Fisk NM, Boogert A, Russell P. Fetal ovarian cysts: diagnostic and therapeutic role for intrauterine aspiration. Fetal Diagn Ther 1993;8: 195-9. [26.] Allan LD, Maxwell DJ, Carminati M, Tynan MJ. Survival after fetal aortic balloon valvoplasty Ultrasound Obstet Gynecol 1995;5:90-1. [27.] Canady JW, Landas SK, Morris H, Thompson SA. In utero cleft palate repair in the ovine model. Cleft Palate Craniofac J 1994;31:37-44.
PAMELA A. CAMOSY, M.D. is a family physician in private practice in San Antonio, Tex. Dr. Camosy graduated from the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio and completed a family practice internship and residency at the Naval Hospital, Jacksonville, Fla.
Address correspondence to Pamela A. Camosy, M.D., Greenway Park Medical Group, 2455 N.E. Loop 410. Suite 100, San Antonio, TX 78217.
COPYRIGHT 1995 American Academy of Family Physicians
The practice of caring for a pregnant woman and her fetus has always had the dual goal of a good outcome for both. In pursuit of this goal, the pregnant woman has always had to consider undergoing her own risks or discomforts for the sake of her fetus. With recent advances in perinatal medicine, the pregnant woman and her fetus are increasingly viewed as two treatable patients.
Age Limits of Pediatrics
Council on Child and Adolescent Health
The purview of pediatrics includes the physical and psychosocial growth, development, and health of the individual. This commitment begins prior to birth when conception is apparent and continues throughout infancy, childhood, adolescence, and early adulthood, when the growth and developmental processes are generally completed. The responsibility of pediatrics may therefore begin with the fetus and continue through 21 years of age
I did not concider the split of a zygote an accident.....I thought you did.
I apologize....
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2929642#2929642
Actually it was wolf.
I was considered an accident....maybe I am having issues with that.
Bart - A direct survey for you. You want me to be nice again, you'll answer it without question.
Answer for or against for the following topics.
1) Abortion
2) Adoption
3) SCNT embryonic stem cell research
4) IVF
5) Iraq war
6) Darfur intervention
Answer and answer promptly.
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