When Does Life Begin?

Bartikus wrote:

Let's establish a starting point:

Is a single skin cell of yours the same as or equal to the unborn at conception? Regarding the question of personhood or a human being.

It is an irrelevant question. They're not entirely equal as skin cells require a lot more prepration before they can be turned into a person. A recently fertilised oocyte has a lot more chance in becoming a person, but ultimately it is no more a person than a skin cell is.

That it might become a human being does not mean it will. Conception does not always equal birth. In fact, a lot of conceptions never get past the first stages. I believe 60% are spontaneously aborted at the early ages.

You might argue, "Well, if it's that difficult, surely we shouldn't be aborting fetuses and blastocysts etc.?"

In which I should raise two points:

1. The blastocyst will never know and will never feel any pain.
2. In terms of cell death, it would be equal to a spontaneous abortion.

Now answer mine.

But you agree that all human lives began at conception right?

Bartikus wrote:

But you agree that all human lives began at conception right?

No.

Bartikus wrote:

But you agree that all human lives began at conception right?

No. What makes us human is a lot more than just a bunch of cells that share genetics with other human beings. It is the gut flora, it is the personalities and the experiences. A ball of cells have none of these.

I've often wondered when a human becomes a human myself.

It appears that a majority? of pro lifers are Christian?

From a christian point of view...does a cow have the Breath of Life? I would think so. Does a mouse have the Breath of Life? I would think so. Does an amoeba have the Breath of Life? Probably not - yet it is alive. Does a plant have the Breath of Life? I would think not. Yet it is a living organism. If this were accepted, then it would appear the the 'Breath of Life', whereby man becomes 'a living soul' would only be true with the existence of a brain...no brain, no life, no brain no thought, no brain no spirit in the eyes, no brain, no human as we know them.

I've no idea what a non Christian would base their belief on.

Quote:

Could you provide the definition of a fundamental fanatic Christian?,"

People .....who ... (are) defining what constitutes a human life (but fail to provide a definition except "at time of conception,"

Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League
Homepage
A nontheistic and nonreligious opposition to the life-denying horror of abortion
"... because life is all there is and all that matters, and
abortion destroys the life of an innocent human being."

This site was last modified on 1 January 2007.

I'm James Matthew (Matt) Wallace, aka The Compleat Heretic. I'm both a Secular Humanist atheist and a pro-life advocate. All too often, I fear that I'm the only nonreligious person who opposes the genocide of abortion used as a birth control substitute. Accordingly, I have created this web site as a virtual rallying point and clearinghouse for all atheists, agnostics, and other "godless" people who call themselves "pro-life."

Though I am a Republican and a conservative (both social and economic), I intend for this site to be nonpartisan and nondiscriminatory. AAPL is for all nontheists regardless of political affiliation, political alignment, age, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, etc.; the more diversity, all the better. Even so, there are three requirements (explained in further detail on the Membership Form page) for AAPL membership; one must:

1) be an avowed atheist, agnostic, or other nontheist
2) oppose abortion and desire its abolition (with or without exceptions)
3) support nonviolence as the sole legitimate means of achieving the goals of the
pro-life movement
All I have at present is this modest web site. In future, I intend to expand it further. To this end, I welcome input from other nontheistic pro-lifers (or any of our guests for that matter) as to the features they would like to see..........

.........In which I should raise two points:

1. The blastocyst will never know and will never feel any pain..........

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Seeing as many of those questions weren't directed at me, I fail to see why I should. Answer mine first and then ask the questions you want me to answer, because you have asked a lot in this thread and I'm not sure which ones you want me to answer.

Let's establish a starting point:

Is a single skin cell of yours the same as or equal to the unborn at conception? Regarding the question of personhood or a human being .

If we can't get past this....I see no point.

Can anyone answer what kind of lifeform a woman carries during pregnancy if not human?

Do you think I will get an answer RL? Would a non answer be an answer in this case?

Of course the pictures would be confusing when they are being told something different from what the pictures capture. lol ie. LIED TO..DECEIVED

Bartikus wrote:

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Seeing as many of those questions weren't directed at me, I fail to see why I should. Answer mine first and then ask the questions you want me to answer, because you have asked a lot in this thread and I'm not sure which ones you want me to answer.

Let's establish a starting point:

Is a single skin cell of yours the same as or equal to the unborn at conception? Regarding the question of personhood or a human being .

If we can't get past this....I see no point.

You idiot, no one believes a single skin cell is equal with being human. That's the point. You aren't paying attention. stopp scratching your nuts, and start scratching your head.

T
K
O

Bartikus wrote:

Of course the pictures would be confusing when they are being told something different from what the pictures capture. lol ie. LIED TO..DECEIVED

I believe you are the one posting photos.

T
K
O

Bartikus wrote:

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Seeing as many of those questions weren't directed at me, I fail to see why I should. Answer mine first and then ask the questions you want me to answer, because you have asked a lot in this thread and I'm not sure which ones you want me to answer.

Let's establish a starting point:

Is a single skin cell of yours the same as or equal to the unborn at conception? Regarding the question of personhood or a human being .

If we can't get past this....I see no point.

You idiot, no one believes a single skin cell is equal with being human. That's the point. You aren't paying attention. stopp scratching your nuts, and start scratching your head.

T
K
O

vikorr wrote:

Pro lifers argue that the child has the right to life, AND that the mother cannot override that right (regardless of her rights)

If so then there is equal rationale to argue that a skin cell has an equal right to life given that it too can become a human being (through cloning) as of course can the sperm cell become a human being (through combining with an egg) as can.......

It is purely an absurd and arbitrary delineation to maintain that the only case for the argument of the presence of a potential human being is the one whereby a fertilized egg is present.

And of course it's an obviously absurd and arbitrary assertion to claim a fertilized egg is an actualized human being, but a skin cell given the potential for cloning is somehow exempt from the claim of being an actualized human being.

But that all changes when the "ball of cells" is wanted by the one carrying it right?

Then it's a human being right?

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

.........In which I should raise two points:

1. The blastocyst will never know and will never feel any pain..........

So if I can guarantee that one would feel no pain, is it then OK for me to kill him?