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Thu 19 Oct, 2006 07:59 am
Man, this place needs some sort of psychology forum. This isn't really medicine, nor is it parenting...anyhoo..here's the problem.
A number of the little kids I work with have problems because some idiot let them have access to porn (or let another kid who showed it to them).
Some have been exposed to really nasty stuff, like extreme violence, violent rapes, sadistic stuff or sadomasochistic stuff, people/animals and kiddy porn.
Some is just the usual bonking and all.
Yes, yes, it is terrible and all that...but that's not important right now.
One of the things a lot of them need is a way to make sense of it all.....in a way that allows them to get on with being kids until they can really understand it, since such exposure when they are not ready rocks their whole sense of what people, adults, and mummy and daddy and Miss Toodles their kindy teacher and grandma are.
(I am always struggling to come up with kiddy sized ways of explaining adult stuff.)
Anyhoo, anyone got inspired ideas?
Depending on the kid and where they are at, I sometimes go with something like "You know how you like to watch spooky films, or cartoons where the characters have weird stuff happen to them, but it isn't real, and that's why it's fun? Well, this is kind of like cartoons/spooky films that some adults like to see. You are too little to really get why some adults like to watch stuff like that, but it's like how you understand a whole lot of stuff now that you couldn't when you were a baby, well you will understand this more when you grow up, and now you don't have to worry about it. But....let's take some time and slowly talk about anything you saw that still makes you feel yucky, or that is giving you bad dreams, or you can't stop thinking about, and we can help you feel less yucky."
I mean, that'a a really speeded up version of a long process, and it varies from kid to kid....
But, like I said, anyone got better ideas?
First off, lock up their parents.
Ack. I can't think of a better way to say it. Emphasizing the "it's not real" part does seem to be an important part of it. That it's something some adults like to imagine (not all of them -- that seems important too, especially in terms of the violent stuff) and so these movies are made to help them imagine.
I guess some of it is "real" though, in the sense that people/ animals is going to be people/ animals no matter what -- I was thinking about rape and such. Maybe divide them that way? I tend to think of regular boinking on tape as being very different with very different issues than a filmed rape scenario...
I really doubt that anyone here would have better ideas than you on this subject, but I'll keep thinking.
sozobe wrote:Ack. I can't think of a better way to say it. Emphasizing the "it's not real" part does seem to be an important part of it. That it's something some adults like to imagine (not all of them -- that seems important too, especially in terms of the violent stuff) and so these movies are made to help them imagine.
I guess some of it is "real" though, in the sense that people/ animals is going to be people/ animals no matter what -- I was thinking about rape and such. Maybe divide them that way? I tend to think of regular boinking on tape as being very different with very different issues than a filmed rape scenario...
I really doubt that anyone here would have better ideas than you on this subject, but I'll keep thinking.
Yeah...luckily the people/animals is pretty rare, though I have had kids forced to do it for real...but that's a whole different scenario than seeing films. Sigh.
Regular boinking is pretty traumatic for kids too...especially the noises...
But thanks...it's reassuring nothing is springing to your mind as utterly obvious.
damn.
My admiration for what you do has no words at this moment.
As for rape videos,
what about saying something along the lines of
" That is a game of pretend that SOME adults like to do.
Sort of like you play pretend and shoot someone...e ven though you really dont shoot them? that is what those videos are like. People are pretending to hurt one another, but they really are not. As adults, they can pretend in a way that makes you really think it is happening. Like actors in a movie can really make you think they are police, but in real life they are not.. "
I was going to suggest that you take the same approach as if it were a scary movie, but that's what you're already doing, so I don't have much to ad.
yeah. I guess my suggestion is along the same lines as what you are already doing.
****, i would not want your job.
The only problem with this approach, which I have used on my duckie (who gets scared after watching Scooby-Doo -- who gets scared of Scooby-Doo?!?) is that it doesn't usually work. By that I mean that the nightmares still come and he still requires company to go to the bathroom at night. Do you think he just doesn't believe me or that he just can't control his imagination?
Lol! There's a whole army of people doing the work...I'm just not happy with the explanations!
I don't think the explanation will take the trauma away, FD...it just helps with a cognitive part of the work, and with attempting to integrate new information about adults (whom kids have to trust, by and large, because they are so big and powerful) which still allows them to see adults and adulthood as ok.
Fears are pretty natural at your little one's age, FD, and they do not really know pretend from real.
It will take time and developmental stages.
Important to make the piont that only a very few people like those kinds of movies, mean people, nasty people and most people are nice people who dont like to watch that kind of stuff. maybe something like "its to scary and real looking even for most grups"
I recall being totally grossed out when I was about 7 or 8 years old by some neighbour kids who locked a few others and me in a room and turned on some "regular" but graphic porn. Some of the kids knew more than others and there were lots of "gross" and "let me out" and nervous giggling and screaming. These kids were relatively new to the neighbourhood and it was the first time I had seen their basement - dogshit everywhere! The upstairs was little better and I remember being very confused and shocked at how slovenly it was and yet also being attracted to the kids in a weird way, too, cause they were worldlier or something
cavalier
casual about it
whatever it is that little kids think. It was the whole experience
not just the porn.
Anyway. I never talked about it with my parents
and for the most part moved past it, particularly as they moved not that long after and I'd heard that their oldest brother was arrested for something
which after the porn episode lost any element of shock I might have had before it. I could cringe now when I think of my little self and that unwelcome exposure and how confusing and upsetting but also maybe, compelling-- it was to my secret self, for a time.
Of course you're talking about kids who have far greater problems than a one- time glimpse but I worry about making it seem like it is "play-acting" (child pornography, bestiality, even "just" penis/vagina sex is real enough). I hate the idea, too, that it could be reasoned away as something "normal" for grownups, but recognize that some porn is normal for some grownups. Complicated. Whew. "I'm sorry you saw that, you're five!" I forget now the example you gave in your opening post but you left the door open to continue talking until they didn't feel afraid or upset anymore. I liked that.
I think it's important to articulate, especially with certain types of porn that it is disturbing and/or icky and/or scary for them and to admit that some folks like to hurt kids, or have sex with animals, or to watch others doing it, and we're not sure why, but that it's disturbing and icky and scary for most of us grownups, too. Validation.
All of which you are doing with more finesse than I could muster I gather.
I like the straightforwardness of your approach.
Art belongs to everyone and everyone is entitled to create art.
Some people like creating pretty art.
Some people would rather make ugly art.
There are at least two kinds of ugly art.
One is imagining the nastiest things possible and putting it out for everyone to see.
The other is to take something pretty--or fun--and make it ugly. Mickey Mouse (or whoever) doesn't really chase girls with his penis out. Someone thought that if he made Mickey Mouse misbehave he would look like a very clever person.
Maybe he wanted to spoil Mickey Mouse for kids.
What do you think?
dadpad wrote:Important to make the piont that only a very few people like those kinds of movies, mean people, nasty people and most people are nice people who dont like to watch that kind of stuff. maybe something like "its to scary and real looking even for most grups"
Hmmm...sadly, it's often daddy, and most kids kinda like their daddy.
Aargh...Joeblow...the whole "normal/not normal" thing for porn! Most kids I see re this are too little even to have been told all about sex! If they ask, I might say some adults want to watch it, some do not..or get guided by the views of the non porn exposing parent (when there is one) or the caregiver...which can be a minefield in itself. Well, sex is a minefield. Sigh...
But, thanks guys.
I was thinking about the other thread you had on this topic not too long ago, dlowan-- a couple of weeks ago one of my art history teachers played a film for us in class that was, of course, Art-with-a-capital-"a"...but to my uneducated eye just looked like porn.
Now, I'm not super-well-adjusted myself when it comes to sex, I've had to work through a lot of negativity about it, and despite being 20 years older than most of the kids you're dealing with, I still felt kinda "icky" for the rest of the day. Anyway, it just made me reflect with new eyes on what a tough thing it must be for the kids you work with to have to process the things they see, and how good you are to be the one to help pick up the pieces. I think you must have one of the toughest jobs there is, and you sure have my deepest respect for doing it.
cyphercat wrote:I was thinking about the other thread you had on this topic not too long ago, dlowan-- a couple of weeks ago one of my art history teachers played a film for us in class that was, of course, Art-with-a-capital-"a"...but to my uneducated eye just looked like porn.
Now, I'm not super-well-adjusted myself when it comes to sex, I've had to work through a lot of negativity about it, and despite being 20 years older than most of the kids you're dealing with, I still felt kinda "icky" for the rest of the day. Anyway, it just made me reflect with new eyes on what a tough thing it must be for the kids you work with to have to process the things they see, and how good you are to be the one to help pick up the pieces. I think you must have one of the toughest jobs there is, and you sure have my deepest respect for doing it.
Interesting...and I get you.
I have to say though that I finally "get" Craven's dislike for accolades.
LOTS of people do a similar job as I do. Prolly, they, like me, do not much discuss it much outside the world of others doing the same work.
I, having a cyber community, occasionally ask stuff from the world outside.
I am NOT special or heroic....I am just more open to you guys. Quit with the praise!!!!!!!!
dlowan wrote:
I am NOT special or heroic....I am just more open to you guys. Quit with the praise!!!!!!!!
Want me to take you down a peg or two? I could ya know. Easy, just ask. wouldnt want ya to get tall poppy syndrome.
Deb, I don't usually advocate behavior modification, but given the age of your charges, I think, in this case, it is the only way to intervene. I am certain that you are aware of the techniques, so I won't elaborate.
As for the "accolades", we all must learn how to recognize the difference between an honest observation and a condescending pat on the head.
Letty wrote:Deb, I don't usually advocate behavior modification, but given the age of your charges, I think, in this case, it is the only way to intervene. I am certain that you are aware of the techniques, so I won't elaborate.
As for the "accolades", we all must learn how to recognize the difference between an honest observation and a condescending pat on the head.
Letty Betty, of course I use behavioural techniques, as part of a much richer series of interventions.....but this was not a question about how to modify behaviour, but how to help kids make sense of what they have seen as part of their being able to deal with this insult to their developmental abilities and their developing cognitive and affective schema re the nature of their world.
And, I did not think anyone was being condescending....but this is common work, and I am just keen to check for ideas re very specific issues.
dadpad wrote:dlowan wrote:
I am NOT special or heroic....I am just more open to you guys. Quit with the praise!!!!!!!!
Want me to take you down a peg or two? I could ya know. Easy, just ask. wouldnt want ya to get tall poppy syndrome.
A MARSUPIAL take a LAGOMORPH down a peg or two?
You'd need a bigger brain for that........your ears are twice as big as your brain.
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