1
   

Any serious Christians left?

 
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Oct, 2006 09:03 pm
Dys, I think if you asked the vast majority of people "Does the sun rise in the east?" they would say it does. So that makes you wrong about the whole ridiculous "earth spinning" nonsense. It's only a theory anyway. Science doesn't have all the answers, and it doesn't love me like Jesus does.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Oct, 2006 10:18 pm
hephzibah wrote:
Not really edgar. But if we are talking about a Creator making rules to follow for those He created, it directly parallels parenthood. After all the parents in essence created the children and make the rules to follow in their best interest.


What if the metaphor was a human creating bacteria in a petri dish.

Or a father having children and then leaving the family and moving to another city and having another family.

Or what if god is the ultimate 'dead-beat' dad.


What if humans are the bacteria in god's sneeze.

What if humans are the sperm in the sock after God beat's off.

What if...

What if..

What if..




You'll see that your presumptions are only one of an infinite possiblity of ideas.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Oct, 2006 10:28 pm
maporsche wrote:
hephzibah wrote:
Not really edgar. But if we are talking about a Creator making rules to follow for those He created, it directly parallels parenthood. After all the parents in essence created the children and make the rules to follow in their best interest.


What if the metaphor was a human creating bacteria in a petri dish.

Or a father having children and then leaving the family and moving to another city and having another family.

Or what if god is the ultimate 'dead-beat' dad.


What if humans are the bacteria in god's sneeze.

What if humans are the sperm in the sock after God beat's off.

What if...

What if..

What if..




You'll see that your presumptions are only one of an infinite possiblity of ideas.


Life is an infinite possibility of ideas. Welcome to the real world maporsche. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Oct, 2006 11:59 pm
hephzibah wrote:
maporsche wrote:
hephzibah wrote:
Not really edgar. But if we are talking about a Creator making rules to follow for those He created, it directly parallels parenthood. After all the parents in essence created the children and make the rules to follow in their best interest.


What if the metaphor was a human creating bacteria in a petri dish.

Or a father having children and then leaving the family and moving to another city and having another family.

Or what if god is the ultimate 'dead-beat' dad.


What if humans are the bacteria in god's sneeze.

What if humans are the sperm in the sock after God beat's off.

What if...

What if..

What if..




You'll see that your presumptions are only one of an infinite possiblity of ideas.


Life is an infinite possibility of ideas. Welcome to the real world maporsche. Mr. Green



You claim above that life is an infinite possibility of ideas......yet, as a 17 year follower of Christ you claim that you know the only possibility (that life was created by god). How do you justify this conflict.
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 12:47 am
With God all things are possible.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 09:03 am
maporsche, I'm afraid you have lumped me in with the wrong crowd as there really is no "crowd" I follow directly, christian or otherwise. I hold similar beliefs to many christians, but far different beliefs in some aspects as well. Life IS an infinite possibility of ideas. However, what possibilities we will choose to see and take is entirely up to us and how much we will limit ourselves through our beliefs, regardless of if those beliefs involve God or not.
0 Replies
 
rockpie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 09:17 am
if life is an infinite possibility of ideas, there is an infinite possibility of which idea you may end up following. you could mix and match any of them etc. therefore creating a religion which suites you best. but then that defeats the object because its human nature to remain comfortable in the life we have (morally speaking) and faith is all about changing how you live for the better, unless you were very strong minded, which you may be, you would just say my life is fine as it is.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 10:16 am
hephzibah wrote:
maporsche, I'm afraid you have lumped me in with the wrong crowd as there really is no "crowd" I follow directly, christian or otherwise. I hold similar beliefs to many christians, but far different beliefs in some aspects as well. Life IS an infinite possibility of ideas. However, what possibilities we will choose to see and take is entirely up to us and how much we will limit ourselves through our beliefs, regardless of if those beliefs involve God or not.


So you don't believe that Jesus was your savior, and that he is the only path to heaven.

You also don't believe that God made the world exactly the way it is.

If you say yes to either of these then you have therefore eliminated all other possibilities.

You seem to be unable to see the conflicts in your lines of thinking.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 10:17 am
rockpie wrote:
if life is an infinite possibility of ideas, there is an infinite possibility of which idea you may end up following. you could mix and match any of them etc. therefore creating a religion which suites you best. but then that defeats the object because its human nature to remain comfortable in the life we have (morally speaking) and faith is all about changing how you live for the better, unless you were very strong minded, which you may be, you would just say my life is fine as it is.




Are you really trying to say that Christians do not 'pick and choose' what beliefs to follow....
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 11:30 am
maporsche wrote:
rockpie wrote:
if life is an infinite possibility of ideas, there is an infinite possibility of which idea you may end up following. you could mix and match any of them etc. therefore creating a religion which suites you best. but then that defeats the object because its human nature to remain comfortable in the life we have (morally speaking) and faith is all about changing how you live for the better, unless you were very strong minded, which you may be, you would just say my life is fine as it is.




Are you really trying to say that Christians do not 'pick and choose' what beliefs to follow....


No, rp is saying only "Real Christians" KNOW which beliefs are to be followed - and, of course, rp identifies with that demographic as rp defines that demographic.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 02:46 pm
maporsche wrote:
hephzibah wrote:
maporsche, I'm afraid you have lumped me in with the wrong crowd as there really is no "crowd" I follow directly, christian or otherwise. I hold similar beliefs to many christians, but far different beliefs in some aspects as well. Life IS an infinite possibility of ideas. However, what possibilities we will choose to see and take is entirely up to us and how much we will limit ourselves through our beliefs, regardless of if those beliefs involve God or not.


So you don't believe that Jesus was your savior, and that he is the only path to heaven.

You also don't believe that God made the world exactly the way it is.

If you say yes to either of these then you have therefore eliminated all other possibilities.

You seem to be unable to see the conflicts in your lines of thinking.


Wrong. Just because an idea exists does not make it wrong. When I'm talking about life being an infinite possibility of idea's I'm meaning it from a different angle than I think you are understanding at this point. You seem to be looking at it from the perspective of the possibilities exist if one does not believe in God, but if they do, there are no possibilities left.
Period.

I don't think we are talking about the same kind of possibilities or idea's for that matter. Maporsche, there are millions of christians in this world. While the majority have very similar major beliefs concerning God, yet each and every person has an individual "take" or "ideal" on what they believe and why. There are millions of non-christians as well who again have very similar major beliefs for why God does not exist, yet each and everyone person has an individual "take" or "ideal" on what they believe and why. The list goes on and on with every single religion and person that opposes religion, doesn't oppose religion, wavers about if religion is true and so on.

That is where the "infinite" part of this comes into play. While there are things in life that are absolute certainties to some, there are many that are not, will not, and could never be certainties to others. The possibilities are in the minds of those who believe whatever it is they choose to believe. While they may rule out some things as possibilities, they will never be able to rule out everything, because then they would have to stop thinking, questioning, and searching for answers completely.

Have you had christians that have told you they have all the answers because of God? They were lying. They personally don't have all the answers, but they do believe God does. A possibility to them, but just being a possibility or idea does not make it true. There are people who believe that science does not have all the answers right now, but it will some day. A possibility to them, but just being a possibility or and idea doesn't make it true.

Possibilities exist and will always exist to everyone, everywhere, on different levels because there will never be an answer to everything. So I'm talking about life being an infinite possibility of ideas on an individual level. No matter where you go in life, who you meet, what you do, you will never meet someone who has identical idea's to yours. Similar maybe, even very very close, but never exact. That is part of what makes us unique and set apart from one another. Not clones. We have the ability to think and choose what we believe and why, so as long as there is individuality within this world life will be an infinite possibility of ideas.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 08:11 pm
hephzibah wrote:
maporsche wrote:
hephzibah wrote:
maporsche, I'm afraid you have lumped me in with the wrong crowd as there really is no "crowd" I follow directly, christian or otherwise. I hold similar beliefs to many christians, but far different beliefs in some aspects as well. Life IS an infinite possibility of ideas. However, what possibilities we will choose to see and take is entirely up to us and how much we will limit ourselves through our beliefs, regardless of if those beliefs involve God or not.


So you don't believe that Jesus was your savior, and that he is the only path to heaven.

You also don't believe that God made the world exactly the way it is.

If you say yes to either of these then you have therefore eliminated all other possibilities.

You seem to be unable to see the conflicts in your lines of thinking.


Wrong. Just because an idea exists does not make it wrong. When I'm talking about life being an infinite possibility of idea's I'm meaning it from a different angle than I think you are understanding at this point. You seem to be looking at it from the perspective of the possibilities exist if one does not believe in God, but if they do, there are no possibilities left.
Period.

I don't think we are talking about the same kind of possibilities or idea's for that matter. Maporsche, there are millions of christians in this world. While the majority have very similar major beliefs concerning God, yet each and every person has an individual "take" or "ideal" on what they believe and why. There are millions of non-christians as well who again have very similar major beliefs for why God does not exist, yet each and everyone person has an individual "take" or "ideal" on what they believe and why. The list goes on and on with every single religion and person that opposes religion, doesn't oppose religion, wavers about if religion is true and so on.

That is where the "infinite" part of this comes into play. While there are things in life that are absolute certainties to some, there are many that are not, will not, and could never be certainties to others. The possibilities are in the minds of those who believe whatever it is they choose to believe. While they may rule out some things as possibilities, they will never be able to rule out everything, because then they would have to stop thinking, questioning, and searching for answers completely.

Have you had christians that have told you they have all the answers because of God? They were lying. They personally don't have all the answers, but they do believe God does. A possibility to them, but just being a possibility or idea does not make it true. There are people who believe that science does not have all the answers right now, but it will some day. A possibility to them, but just being a possibility or and idea doesn't make it true.

Possibilities exist and will always exist to everyone, everywhere, on different levels because there will never be an answer to everything. So I'm talking about life being an infinite possibility of ideas on an individual level. No matter where you go in life, who you meet, what you do, you will never meet someone who has identical idea's to yours. Similar maybe, even very very close, but never exact. That is part of what makes us unique and set apart from one another. Not clones. We have the ability to think and choose what we believe and why, so as long as there is individuality within this world life will be an infinite possibility of ideas.


All fine and good.....but one thing, just focus on these questions.

Are the infinite paths to go to heaven? OR is there one path to go to heaven? If there is one path, does that path go through Jesus Christ.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 08:17 pm
LOL I feel like you are trying to hypnotize me maporsche. Just focus on the ball... back and forth... back and forth....

....


....


When I snap my fingers you will become a duck...


SNAP!

Quack Quack!

LOL sorry couldn't resist...

Maporshe, honestly it does not matter. No matter what you or I believe that does not change the real truth. Whatever that may be.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 08:21 pm
hephzibah wrote:
LOL I feel like you are trying to hypnotize me maporsche. Just focus on the ball... back and forth... back and forth....

....


....


When I snap my fingers you will become a duck...


SNAP!

Quack Quack!

LOL sorry couldn't resist...

Maporshe, honestly it does not matter. No matter what you or I believe that does not change the real truth. Whatever that may be.


Don't you know the real truth? Don't you have faith (that ultimate trump card) that Jesus is your savior and that you will be going to heaven.

My only point here is that while you claim to be open to the infinite possibilities of life, on the most important question that can be asked or challenged, you choose not to accept that infinite possibilities.

The question about whether Jesus is the path to heaven is the only question worth asking.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 08:44 pm
This is the best I can give you at this point:

I did believe Jesus was the way... the truth... the life...

There was a time that He was literally my best friend, my confidant, my everything.

There was a time...

And my heart hurts somedays because I miss that.

I miss feeling like I always had someone to talk to who understood.

Someone who saw past this bizzare exterior of mine and loved me anyway.

Someone who understood the pain I went through.

Someone who loved me no matter how bad I was, how many times I messed up, or how wrong I was.

Someone who saw hope for me when I couldn't see hope for myself.

It brought me joy.

It brought me peace.

It brought me hope.

It taught me how to love and be loved.

I was happy.

And now?

I don't like talking about it. I'm not certain anymore what I believe except that I'm not ready to outright deny Jesus, and when you ask me such questions that is exactly what I feel like I may end up doing if I answer. It would be easier for me had I not been through some of the stuff I'd been through. It would be easier if believing in Him hadn't brought me so far in life, hadn't taught me so much, hadn't changed me so much.

It would be easier if I could stop having some of the dreams I'm having. But there's still that little part of me that doesn't want it to be easier. Doesn't want to give up hope in a God. Doesn't want to unlearn all the things I've learned. So I am in a war. A tug of war and I am what is being tugged. I never would have imagined myself being in such a predicament two years ago.

I never would have even thought I was "capable" of denying Christ. But now I see oh so clearly just how capable I am, and the problem is... I don't want to. So sorry I couldn't give you a direct yes or no answer. I do wish I had the certainty of heart I once had. The deep seeded convictions of something... anything at this point would do. Because right now, I'm wavering on a fence and not sure which side I will fall off on. *sigh*
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 09:02 pm
hephzibah,

What has you wavering on the fence? What are you uncertain about?

(You can PM me, if you want.)
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 09:14 pm
Thanks echi. I can't PM you though because my privileges were suspended indefinitely due to a gross misjudgement on my part almost a year ago. We can talk here though. That's fine.

I'm uncertain what reality really is echi. Plain and simple. So many of the things I believe were not "teachings" from a church, or a pastor, or a christian friend even. They were things I lived through. Things I saw first hand in my life. Changes I saw come forth that I would have never thought could have happened because of where I came from. I LIVED the christian life for several years. I've experience most everything christians talk about. But now, I don't and I'm torn as to why.

The "world" says, "because it was never real"

But my heart says, "It was and you stopped believing"

The world says, "It's all a lie, it's belief in a magical being that doesn't exist."

But my heart says, "You knew Him."

I started searching for answers after being betrayed by my so called "christian" husband, and I haven't really found anything that I really "believe" so much anymore. Anything I see that I could believe that won't cause me some sort of pain on some level. And so I waver, undecided on which direction will be the least painful for me, but the most beneficial in the end. I don't know if that path even exists though. Razz
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 09:30 pm
We should probably start a new thread, Hep. Don't you think?

Have you contacted the mods or administrator about your PM privileges, recently?
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 09:38 pm
Hehe... what shall the thread be called?

As sands through the hour glass...

So are the days of heph's life...

LOL

Kidding. Razz

What should be the topic?

I've contacted the mods and I have come to the conclusion that it's just going to be better for me to keep my mouth shut and be happy I'm still here. After all they really could have suspended ME indefinitely as well, but they didn't, and I am grateful. I trust that if they ever feel I deserve the privilege they will give it to me. If not... *shrugs* There's really not a heck of a lot I can do about it. Being mad and frustrated certainly won't help though! I enjoy the time I am here and the people I get to talk to. I wouldn't want to lose that over something as silly as PM privileges.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2006 09:47 pm
Heph, I've been where you are in your faith. I too was a Christian for 10 years and I did all of the things and thought all of the things a Christian should think/do. I spoke in tongues, I went on mission trips to Brazil and Mexico, I did the song/dance for so long that when I started having doubts it was painful and I wanted the doubts to go away.

The ultimate end to my path was the denial of Jesus. The conclusion that I came up with was that religion as we know it is false. Logically it does not make sense to me why the creator of the universe would send the bible as his word. The bible is a joke, and if this is god's idea of a joke then **** His Holiness for this cruel attempt at humor.

I've found that after a while you don't miss those 'talks' with god. You don't miss 'someone' looking out for you. I've come to understand that I am able to handle everything on my own without god's help (he probably wasn't ever there anyway), and if I need to turn to someone I turn to friends. One of the greatest things that my descent from Jesus has given me is time to get to know some truly great people and to truly be able to show them friendship.

You are all you need.
0 Replies
 
 

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