Any serious Christians left?

I don't know about that. I'm interested to see your information.

Regardless, how is your "understanding" any different from your "interpretation"?

Is that your own "understanding"?

Here's one for ya A M - is God perfect?

echi wrote:

. . . how is your "understanding" any different from your "interpretation"?

tomato/to-mah-toe?

echi wrote:

Is that your own "understanding"?

Yes.

Okay, JPB, point at everyone (else) that attempts to restrict the freedoms of others through their votes?

timberlandko wrote:

Here's one for ya A M - is God perfect?

Yes.

Dictionary.Com: Perfect

1. conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type
2. excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement
3. exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose
4. entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings
5. accurate, exact, or correct in every detail
6. thorough; complete; utter
7. pure or unmixed
8. unqualified; absolute
9. expert; accomplished; proficient.
10. unmitigated; out-and-out; of an extreme degree

Mirriam-Webster Online: Perfect

1 a: being entirely without fault or defect, flawless
1 b: satisfying all requirements
1 c: corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept

2: Expert, proficient

3a: Pure, Total
3b: Lacking in no detail
3c: Complete

Synonyms: PERFECT, WHOLE, ENTIRE, INTACT mean not lacking or faulty in any particular. PERFECT implies the soundness and the excellence of every part, element, or quality of a thing frequently as an unattainable or theoretical state <a>. WHOLE suggests a completeness or perfection that can be sought, gained, or regained <felt>. ENTIRE implies perfection deriving from integrity, soundness, or completeness of a thing <the>. INTACT implies retention of perfection of a thing in its natural or original state <the>.

American Heritage: Perfect

1. Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind.

2. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen.

3. Thoroughly skilled or talented in a certain field or area; proficient.

4. Completely suited for a particular purpose or situation: She was the perfect actress for the part.

5a. Completely corresponding to a description, standard, or type: a perfect circle; a perfect gentleman.
5b. Accurately reproducing an original: a perfect copy of the painting.

6. Complete; thorough; utter: a perfect fool. 7. Pure; undiluted; unmixed: perfect red.

8. Excellent and delightful in all respects: a perfect day.

Encarta: Perfect

1. without faults: without errors, flaws, or faults
in perfect condition

2. complete and whole: complete and lacking nothing essential

3. excellent or ideal: excellent or ideal in every way
That's the perfect word to describe him.

4. especially suitable: having all the necessary or typical characteristics required for a given situation
the perfect candidate for the job

5. skilled: very proficient, skilled, or talented in a particular area
a perfect host

6. utter or absolute: used to emphasize the extent or degree of something
a perfect nuisance
perfect happiness

7. exact as reproduction: exactly reproducing an original
a perfect likeness

If God said something is wrong there is a reason for it. He didn't just make rules arbitrarily. The rules He made were for our benefit, though many don't see them that way I know. I will not compromise my beliefs, Phoenix, not that anyone is asking me to. But if I believe something is wrong in the eyes of God because the Bible says it is well, then I am going to vote against it every time.

Your life is yours and between you and God or whoever you determine it is between. My life is mine and is between me and God.

It's none of my business. I am not going to judge you. It is merely a choice you have made for your life just as you or anyone else would make any other choice.

However, it still doesn't make me superior to you or anyone else on the face of the planet. I made the choice that was right for ME.

We may have different morals but I don't recall saying mine were better than yours or anyone else's. That's not my place nor within my authority to decide that. God makes those decisions, not me.

People vote their conscience whatever that may derive from. You vote yours and they vote theirs. There is no difference. WE ALL HAVE THE SAME EXACT RIGHT.

EVERYONE VOTES THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE! If you vote no when I vote yes are you trying to control what I do? No more so than I would be you.

I vote my conscience the way I think is right and that is all I can do.... If I think something is wrong I am not going to vote for it just so someone else can enage in it if they decide to.

But if we voted that way all the time Phoenix, we would have no laws to protect us soon. Everything and anything would be acceptable because "I didn't have the right to impose what I wanted on anyone else." We'd destroy ourselves much quicker.

Why is it so hard for you and others to accept that you do the very same thing when you vote? You vote for what you think is right, correct? How is that any different than I or anyone else votes?

My question is this: I am exercising my legal rights in this situation and yet you seem to think that should be taken away from me. I view this differently than you do. I am different than you. You accuse me of "bashing" gays and homosexuals because I believe it is wrong in the eyes of God. Don't you feel that my views are wrong (whether in your eyes or God's eyes?) So, how does that make us different, Lash? Why is it ok for you to "bash" me with words because I would vote a certain way on something? Aren't you doing the exact same thing you are accusing me of doing?

Now, would I like to see everyone a Christian? Of course, because I feel that is is a wonderful thing, but it is every INDIVIDUAL'S CHOICE, not everyone feels as I do and that is their God-given and constitutional right. It cannot be forced upon anyone to accept it even if it was a law!

If you vote no and I vote yes then we are each imposing our views on the other one. We have the same right.

I would not vote for a law that would break God's laws, which would be voting my conscience.

I am supposed to obey the laws of the land as long as they do not conflict with God's laws. Like I said, I know of no law that forces me to engage in something I feel is wrong.

The casinos are legal. They were voted in. That's the law. However, I don't have to engage in the activity.

My reasoning is just as I have stated. I vote for the things that I think are right and I vote against the things I think are wrong. If I think they are wrong then I am wrong in voting for them.

is if I believe something is wrong then I won't vote for it. To me, God's word is the ultimate authority so I am going to accept that over the wants of man any day.

If someone wants to or doesn't want to practice a religion that is their personal choice.

echi wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:

echi wrote:

And in so doing, you have made an interpretation.

Quote:

You take the words as they are written, and then you consider what the real meaning must be.

Quote:

Then you are, without question, interpreting the written word.

And your point, Echi? Did I ever say this was anyone's understanding other than mine? :wink:

"If one truly believes God is the ultimate authority, and therefore; His word is the ultimate authority, which I believe, why wouldn't I accept God's word over anyone's? Even my own?"

Oh, so you don't understand Thou shalt not kill? Echi, the Bible will tell you, and I'll get the scripture for you, that if you believe something is a sin (even if it's not a sin in God's eyes) then you commited a sin. Now, there are things in the Bible that are as simple as thou shalt not kill and then there are things in the Bible such as in the instance of gambling that you have to read and study it to gain an understanding. So if I believe that God says gambling is wrong, then it is wrong for me to engage in it or condone it in any way.
Understand?[/color]

Quote:

In that case, the Bible cannot be correctly regarded as the "inerrant Word of God".

Is the truth any less the truth because people have a differing view of it?

cicerone imposter wrote:

Okay, JPB, point at everyone (else) that attempts to restrict the freedoms of others through their votes?

HA!! Just saw this, missed it before I posted my response to Arella. You got it, CI.

I do? Telling them what the Bible says is not me telling anyone how to behave JPB. Asking someone to not cuss, use God's name in vain, etc., is not telling them how to behave. Telling people what is offensive to me and asking them to not do it is not telling them how to behave. I do not demand that anyone do anything. Request? Yes, request often, yes!

You know, kind of like you implying I am wrong, or I'll never get it, etc.?

Funny, but I don't see you having a single problem with anyone else actually telling me what to do, (i.e., leave, etc.) I don't see you saying a single thing about anyone saying anything to me implying I said something I never said or that I have a belief that I have even denied having). Why is that JPB? Why is it that you only appear (to me at least) to do this? I haven't read every post in every thread you've posted in but in this one, where have you once even tried to understand me?

If you are going to point fingers, then kindly point them at everyone.

Arella Mae, I'm going to take the time to list exactly what you've said in this thread that shows you are imposing your beliefs on everyone with your every vote.

By not condoning it in any way, does that mean not allowing others to participate in it?

Does this mean that if you are not actively seeking the end of all forms of gambling such as bingo, race track, lottery, slot machines, etc., that you are committing a sin?

If not, and you are not to engage or condone it, how is that obeying the word of god?

Butrflynet wrote:

By not condoning it in any way, does that mean not allowing others to participate in it?

Does this mean that if you are not actively seeking the end of all forms of gambling such as bingo, race track, lottery, slot machines, etc., that you are committing a sin?

If not, and you are not to engage or condone it, how is that obeying the word of god?

Butrflynet, if I were to vote to allow gambling, then I am condoning it. I won't.

maporsche wrote:

Arella Mae, I'm going to take the time to list exactly what you've said in this thread that shows you are imposing your beliefs on everyone with your every vote.

You aren't listening here! I am imposing my beliefs NO MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE IS! I don't consider you imposing because it's YOUR RIGHT! Get it? Now, if you think it's imposing that's your belief, feeling, whatever!

It didn't matter. I got the same responses to that than I am getting now.

What about voting to disallow it, if it is already occurring?

Also, is voting the only activity required of a christian to satisfy the bible's recording of god's word about gambling?

Is eliminating gambling in the United States all that is required by the bible, or must gambling be eliminated/disallowed all over the planet?

What about other countries that allow gambling? Since you don't have a vote in those countries, what does not condoning gambing in any way entail in regard to them? Do you boycott products from those countries, write letters to their governors, send funds to anti-gambling campaigns in other countries or anything else?