Arella Mae wrote:Okay Timber, please understand I am not trying to be a smart alec, etc., in asking you these things. I am trying to make sure I understand this all and can hold a good discussion with you on it.
Quote:1. conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type
My question is who defines the definition of an ideal type here? I'm sure you know as well as I do that the concept of God is not the same as one person's or the others.
Irrelevant; nothing pertaining to God or to "ideal type" is at discussion - soley operative is that attribute defined by the word "Perfect".
Quote:Quote:2. excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement
3. exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose
Wouldn't this be subjective to the person in the situation Timber?
No, for the purpose of this discussion not at all; no being, human or devine, and neither purpose nor situation are relevant to the core concept behind that attribute defined by the word "Perfect", which word and concept are all that is at discussion.
Quote:Quote:4. entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings
5. accurate, exact, or correct in every detail
6. thorough; complete; utter
7. pure or unmixed
8. unqualified; absolute
9. expert; accomplished; proficient.
10. unmitigated; out-and-out; of an extreme degree
Quote:I don't personally have a problem with any of the definitions but from discussing this with others it would seem that they do. That's why I pointed this out.
First, I'm not interested for the moment in what other people think, I'm discussing this with you, seeking your ideas. Second, whatever problem others mught have is between those others and The English Language as it is written and understood - nothing either of us can do about that, but as it is irrelevant to this discussion, it is of no consequence in this discussion. All that is at discussion here is that attribute defined by the word "Perfect".
Quote:In this case, speaking for myself I'd say yes. But again, isn't this subjective to the person in the situation? What they feel may be a requirement not met may not be what another or God would feel as a requirement not met?
Subjectivity is no consideration here, we're discussing only that attribute defined by the word "Perfect".
Quote:Quote:1 c: corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept
Who decides what that concept is?
Irrelevant; neither "who decides" nor what any concept might be are at discussion here, all we are concerned with is that atribute defined by the word "Perfect"
Quote:2: Expert, proficient
3a: Pure, Total
3b: Lacking in no detail
3c: Complete
Synonyms: PERFECT, WHOLE, ENTIRE, INTACT mean not lacking or faulty in any particular. PERFECT implies the soundness and the excellence of every part, element, or quality of a thing frequently as an unattainable or theoretical state <a>. WHOLE suggests a completeness or perfection that can be sought, gained, or regained <felt>. ENTIRE implies perfection deriving from integrity, soundness, or completeness of a thing <the>. INTACT implies retention of perfection of a thing in its natural or original state <the>.
Quote:American Heritage: Perfect
1. Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind.
2. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen.
3. Thoroughly skilled or talented in a certain field or area; proficient.
4. Completely suited for a particular purpose or situation: She was the perfect actress for the part.
5a. Completely corresponding to a description, standard, or type: a perfect circle; a perfect gentleman.
5b. Accurately reproducing an original: a perfect copy of the painting.
6. Complete; thorough; utter: a perfect fool. 7. Pure; undiluted; unmixed: perfect red.
8. Excellent and delightful in all respects: a perfect day.
Quote:Encarta: Perfect
1. without faults: without errors, flaws, or faults
in perfect condition
2. complete and whole: complete and lacking nothing essential
3. excellent or ideal: excellent or ideal in every way
That's the perfect word to describe him.
4. especially suitable: having all the necessary or typical characteristics required for a given situation
the perfect candidate for the job
5. skilled: very proficient, skilled, or talented in a particular area
a perfect host
6. utter or absolute: used to emphasize the extent or degree of something
a perfect nuisance
perfect happiness
7. exact as reproduction: exactly reproducing an original
a perfect likeness
Does that about sum up the definition of "PERFECT" as you understand it?
Quote:To me, God does meet all of those definitions. Now, I would venture a guess and say to some He doesn't, right?
Right or wrong, "does" or "doesn't - all that is irrelevant; you and I, not you and others, not I and others, not you and I and others, just you and I, are discussing that attribute defined by the word "Perfect".
Quote: So, isn't this all a matter of perception until (and I'll say if for those that don't believe) we meet God at the end of it all?[color]
Perception does not enter into this discussion of that attribute defined by the word "Perfect", nor does belief or disbelief, and neither does any God or gods; we are discussing only that attribute defined by the word "Perfect" in no particular context, with reference to nothing, simply itself, by itself.
Quote:Can any of these questions be answered to 100% of anyone's satisfaction? I don't think they can be, Timber.
Any question other than what is meant by the word "Perfection" is beyond the immediate scope of this discussion, and any quality or degree of satisfaction with the answer to any question other than the meaning of the word "Perfect" is entirely irrelevant. The only matter currently at question is that attribute defined by the word "Perfection.
Quote:I believe God is perfect and because of that belief I can accept the answer to many questions as, "because He's God" and leave it at that. Now, I realize that not everyone does, can, will, etc., do that. Some require that evidence. Some require more evidence than others. Throughout all my posting on A2K if I could have one question answered it would be, why do you need evidence and I don't? That's another question I don't know if I will ever get an answer to.
Fine, you "
... believe God is perfect" - to save time and effort here, we'll stipulate to whatever meaning you prefer as pertains to the word "God", which is not at discussion right now anyway; what is at question, and only that which is at question, is that attribute defined by the word "Perfect".
Quote:But yes, I believe God is perfect but I do understand how others may view Him differently. That's why I asked about parts of those definitions. Because I do realize that it's different for everyone. I guess that's why religion is such a personal thing.
We are not discussing "God" at the moment, we are discussing specifically precisely and only that attribute defined by the word "Perfect". The issue here is to establish a common understanding of that attribute defined by the word "Perfect", that, only that, apart from any other consideration.
In further interest of saving time and effort in this amazing journey to arrive at a mutually acceptable definition for that common, pre-gradeschool-level vocabulary English word, "Perfect", I'll ask you to define - with reference to and dependent on nothing else, not God, not "Others", not the relative fat content levels of assorted brands of pet food, just "What does the word 'Perfect", by itself - applied to nothing else, reference nothing else, compared with nothing else, subject to nothing else - mean to you? May we agree the sense of the word itself, apart from any consideration of to what or to whom it may be applied, embodies and entails the concept of absolute completeness, as in without flaw, lack, fault, want, need, restriction, limitation, imperfection, or other qualification?
I always have to look so many up! Seriously, those big words just give me more opportunity to learn. I'll be back on this.
