Any serious Christians left?

I fervently hope that you are wrong about Canada becoming tainted with the same brush.

James Dobson, the charismatic founder of Focus on the Family who has been described as one of the most influential Christian figures in the United States, personally waded into the debate two weeks ago in a radio show taped in Colorado Springs, Colo., and transmitted as a paid broadcast to 130 stations in Canada.

"It is clear here in the United States that the American people do not want same-sex marriage. I would hope that Canadians who also do not want same-sex marriage would be encouraged by what has happened down here."

Mr. Dobson also attacked Paul Martin for refusing Cabinet ministers a free vote. "Your Prime Minister, Paul Martin, has recently done things to subvert the will of the people," he said.
Last spring, Focus on the Family Canada ran an ad campaign in newspapers praising the virtues of traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Derek Rogusky, vice-president of family policy for Focus on the Family Canada, said the group spent $800,000 on advertising last year -- well within the $1-million he said the group is allowed to spend on political activities and keep its charitable status.

That wasn't the question. Do you still believe that the laws of your God should take precedence over the law of the land for all Americans? (which goes back to a discussion we had almost a year ago).

Echi, let me ask you a question? Why do you and others keep trying to drag my religion into something that I don't drag it into in any other way than voting my conscience? The only way my religion has anything to do with this is what I base my morals on. Now, that is ME. That is what I base MY morals on. You base yours on something just as everyone else does. I may or may not like your morals. I may or may not like what you would vote for. So I see no difference here, Echi. I vote my conscience.....................I'm really getting tired of saying that.

Arella Mae wrote:

Echi, let me ask you a question? Why do you and others keep trying to drag my religion into something that I don't drag it into in any other way than voting my conscience? The only way my religion has anything to do with this is what I base my morals on. Now, that is ME. That is what I base MY morals on. You base yours on something just as everyone else does. I may or may not like your morals. I may or may not like what you would vote for. So I see no difference here, Echi. I vote my conscience.....................I'm really getting tired of saying that.

It goes to your question about why 'we' keep trying to drag your religion into the discussion. Your belief that the law of the land should be dictated by the laws of your god for all of us is where the practice of your religion goes beyond simply voting your conscience. You aren't looking to ensure that YOU get to live under the laws of your god, you're looking to ensure that all of US have to live under them as well.

echi wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:

echi wrote:

I'm sorry if you have stated elsewhere, but what do you mean by "lobby", exactly?

Are we talkin' letters? emails? petitions? giving money to help buy politicians? Stuff like that?

I mean within legal limits, Echi. Within the law.

Bound only by the limits of the law. I see.

Where does your religion step in?

Echi, let me ask you a question? Why do you and others keep trying to drag my religion into something that I don't drag it into in any other way than voting my conscience? The only way my religion has anything to do with this is what I base my morals on. Now, that is ME. That is what I base MY morals on. You base yours on something just as everyone else does. I may or may not like your morals. I may or may not like what you would vote for. So I see no difference here, Echi. I vote my conscience.....................I'm really getting tired of saying that.

Seems most of the believers are producing most of the arguments curtailing human rights.

JPB, Your last post is explains the crux of the problem; they want laws to follow their religious beliefs for everybody. They don't seem to mind that their "own" kind doesn't. Shall we start with "thou shalt not steal?"

echi wrote:

"Then I suggest you get together enough people to lobby to change the law, dys. That is how it works. If you don't like it, then do something to change it. I don't have a problem with that at all and I would back your right to lobby to change the law in a heartbeat. I may not vote for the law (generalized) but I will support your right to try to change it."

Arella,

Would you support my right to lobby to have your rights taken away?

Good question echi!

I'd also like to point out that not everyone's vote matters in our current system. This law for example was passed by a 200+ margin of lawmakers. Something like 70% of the house voted for this bill. My single vote for the congressman of my single district would have had ZERO influence on this bill.

I wish this bill was up for a general popular vote; I guarentee you it wouldn't have been passed. What American would really support taking away the rights of their neighbors who aren't hurting anybody.

This law will do nothing to curtail gambling in the US anyway, there's still thousands of Indian casinos, Vegas, Atlantic city, homegrown poker games, friends betting on games with their other friends, fantasy football, the lottery, scratching tickets, etc.

If the law was to outlaw ALL gambling then I think there is more of an argument (however I would still oppose it), but this law strictly focuses on removing rights of citizens, not rights of businesses, but of citizens.

Arella Mae wrote:

echi wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:

echi wrote:

I'm sorry if you have stated elsewhere, but what do you mean by "lobby", exactly?

Are we talkin' letters? emails? petitions? giving money to help buy politicians? Stuff like that?

I mean within legal limits, Echi. Within the law.

Bound only by the limits of the law. I see.

Where does your religion step in?

Echi, let me ask you a question? Why do you and others keep trying to drag my religion into something that I don't drag it into in any other way than voting my conscience? The only way my religion has anything to do with this is what I base my morals on. Now, that is ME. That is what I base MY morals on. You base yours on something just as everyone else does. I may or may not like your morals. I may or may not like what you would vote for. So I see no difference here, Echi. I vote my conscience.....................I'm really getting tired of saying that.

Oh, for Pete's sake.

I'm just asking because "within legal limits" sounds like lawyer-talk and could easily include all sorts of questionable activities that very well may be in conflict with some tenets of your chosen faith.

I would like to know what kind of "lobbying" you involve yourself in and how far you'd be willing to go to see that your convictions are made into law. That's it.

Really? You wouldn't get upset if large numbers of people starting voting for people who prescribe to the tenets of Islam? How would you react if the laws of the land slowly came to represent those dictated by the Koran? Would you challenge someone who came here professing those views?