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Harry Reid cleaning up - And no one CARES

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 11:13 am
The only thing I can see that is questionable in this case is Reid listed the land as a personal asset instead of a corporate one in his Senate filings.

It isn't illegal for Reid to buy land. No one has alleged he paid less than market value when he purchased it.

It isn't illegal for Reid to sell the land. No one has alleged he got more than market value for it.

It isn't illegal for a developer to get land rezoned. It's done all the time. Even the piece you referenced okie states rezoning was "common." It is much easier to get something rezoned for a shopping center if you have all the property in hand. It certainly isn't illegal to enter into a limited partnership to combine assests to show you have them in hand.

It certainly isn't illegal to have an informal arrangement in which 2 people bring assets to a partnership with an agreement that they each profit from their own asset upon sale of the combined assets. In fact such an informal agreement would make it likely for the persons involved to see the asset as still a personal asset.

This "scandal" will blow away faster than a dust devil in the Nevada desert. Reid may have listed his asset improperly in his filings in the Senate. It is a minor infraction and it will be lucky if the ethics committee even issues a report at all on how minor it was.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 11:37 am
okie wrote:
More nice deals, Parados:

http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2003-06/8306315.pdf

Nice to have family members helping.

Remember, this guy is on the Ethics Committee, Vice Chairman?




How much does a family member's firm (Not the family member himself) have to make before it becomes illegal for them to lobby in your eyes?

What if the family member is the one that solely owns the firm? Does that make it questionable? Or are you fine with that?

If you are implying that no family member of a sitting Politician can lobby. OK, I am with you on that. Lets remove EVERY politician that has a family member that has lobbied. Restricting your argument to Reid alone is pretty partisan. I forget who Neil Bush lobbied for? Do you happen to remember?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 11:52 am
I hear your points, Parados. My stance on this is that something smells bad here and needs more investigation. The points as I understand them so far are:

Reid is guilty of not reporting proper ownership of investments. This is a crime.

When asked about the deal, Reid hangs up on reporter. Highly suspicious.

Reid has conducted very poor business practices, to invest in a property, then supposedly exchanging it for a stake in a friend's LLC, without proper paperwork. Sometimes Reid paid property tax, sometimes Brown did. Highly suspicious.

Reid's investment partner is a Mr. Brown, whose history is with gambling interests with past criminal investigations. Highly suspicious arrangement and friend.

Their is suspicion of knowledge of land trades, which gave Reid a leg up on buying land that other people are not privy to know. Highly suspicious investment therefore.

Reid is involved with land trade influence in Congress, which affect firms that have donated to his coffers. And family members and staff member may have connections with developers involved in land trades. Highly suspicious.

Reid might be involved in pressure to rezone the properties affecting his land, thus allowing for a much higher value for his land. As a powerful senator, this is not appropriate. It is highly suspicious.

Unanswered questions: Has Reid paid proper capital gains income tax and was property properly taxed while he held it. I don't know how you do this correctly if the ownership arrangement is not on paper? Questions to be answered as of yet.

I probably have not covered every point, but I think it should be obvious this needs far more investigation than Hastert deserves over some ridiculous text messages. We need more curiosity by the press, by congressmen, and we need an investigation. We already have a crime and there could be alot more seriousness than we know now.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 12:01 pm
Let's hire a special prosecutor. I wonder if Ken Starr is busy?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 12:23 pm
parados wrote:
It certainly isn't illegal to have an informal arrangement in which 2 people bring assets to a partnership with an agreement that they each profit from their own asset upon sale of the combined assets. In fact such an informal agreement would make it likely for the persons involved to see the asset as still a personal asset.


Huh?

I could have all kinds of informal arrangements, but if they aren't on paper, they aren't an arrangement as far as the IRS is concerned, county clerk or assessor is concerned, or as far as any legal process is concerned. This is a weird way to conduct a $400,000 investment.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 12:36 pm
okie wrote:
I hear your points, Parados. My stance on this is that something smells bad here and needs more investigation. The points as I understand them so far are:

Reid is guilty of not reporting proper ownership of investments. This is a crime.
False, Reid reported ownership as being PERSONALLY owned instead of part of a LLC. He did not fail to report ownership. At least learn the facts before you make such statements.

Quote:
When asked about the deal, Reid hangs up on reporter. Highly suspicious.
In what way? Like when Bush refuses to answer questions? Is that suspicious? What about Bush's refusal to call on certain reporters. Isn't that suspicious? You don't know any details other than the reporters claim he was hung up on. There are lots of other possibilities here.

Quote:

Reid has conducted very poor business practices, to invest in a property, then supposedly exchanging it for a stake in a friend's LLC, without proper paperwork. Sometimes Reid paid property tax, sometimes Brown did. Highly suspicious.
What is suspicious? You don't trust people that are honest enough to trust each other?

Quote:
Reid's investment partner is a Mr. Brown, whose history is with gambling interests with past criminal investigations. Highly suspicious arrangement and friend.
He was a lawyer for casinos. Find me a lawyer who has worked just about anywhere that hasn't been around a criminal investigation. This is nothing but innuendo. No charges were ever filed against him. No allegations of wrong doing in the trial he is brought up in.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Apr-02-Sun-2006/news/6651876.html

Quote:
Their is suspicion of knowledge of land trades, which gave Reid a leg up on buying land that other people are not privy to know. Highly suspicious investment therefore.
I call BS on that one. What evidence do you have that this land was not for sale to others? Complete made up crap there. The land trade by the government was NOT a secret. It was a publically passed law. There was no secret. Reid wasn't privy to anything that wasn't publically available. Land trades are public. Land sales are public.

Quote:
Reid is involved with land trade influence in Congress, which affect firms that have donated to his coffers. And family members and staff member may have connections with developers involved in land trades. Highly suspicious.
More made up crap. Every politician including BUsh own land. Are you saying they can't own anything or are you saying they can't take donations? This is more partisan tripe that you fail to apply to everyone.

Quote:
Reid might be involved in pressure to rezone the properties affecting his land, thus allowing for a much higher value for his land. As a powerful senator, this is not appropriate. It is highly suspicious.
Reid MIGHT be? ROFLMBO.. your own article said it was "COMMON" for rezoning. COMMON... do you know what the word means? Use some common sense for *** sake.

Quote:
Unanswered questions: Has Reid paid proper capital gains income tax and was property properly taxed while he held it. I don't know how you do this correctly if the ownership arrangement is not on paper? Questions to be answered as of yet.
Do you know how property is recorded for tax purposes? It is obvious you don't to even ask such a stupid question. How in the hell do you think the reporter dug up this story. Go read the article. Reid recorded the sale as a sale of personal property. The 1.1 million was on his Senate report. I doubt he filed it with the Senate and failed to pay taxes on it. Your argument is one of ignorance.
Quote:

I probably have not covered every point, but I think it should be obvious this needs far more investigation than Hastert deserves over some ridiculous text messages. We need more curiosity by the press, by congressmen, and we need an investigation. We already have a crime and there could be alot more seriousness than we know now.
What crime? You haven't shown a single crime. You make up allegations. You ignore the law when it comes to taxation.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 12:36 pm
okie wrote:
I hear your points, Parados. My stance on this is that something smells bad here and needs more investigation. The points as I understand them so far are:

Reid is guilty of not reporting proper ownership of investments. This is a crime.

When asked about the deal, Reid hangs up on reporter. Highly suspicious.

Reid has conducted very poor business practices, to invest in a property, then supposedly exchanging it for a stake in a friend's LLC, without proper paperwork. Sometimes Reid paid property tax, sometimes Brown did. Highly suspicious.

Reid's investment partner is a Mr. Brown, whose history is with gambling interests with past criminal investigations. Highly suspicious arrangement and friend.

Their is suspicion of knowledge of land trades, which gave Reid a leg up on buying land that other people are not privy to know. Highly suspicious investment therefore.

Reid is involved with land trade influence in Congress, which affect firms that have donated to his coffers. And family members and staff member may have connections with developers involved in land trades. Highly suspicious.

Reid might be involved in pressure to rezone the properties affecting his land, thus allowing for a much higher value for his land. As a powerful senator, this is not appropriate. It is highly suspicious.

Unanswered questions: Has Reid paid proper capital gains income tax and was property properly taxed while he held it. I don't know how you do this correctly if the ownership arrangement is not on paper? Questions to be answered as of yet.

I probably have not covered every point, but I think it should be obvious this needs far more investigation than Hastert deserves over some ridiculous text messages. We need more curiosity by the press, by congressmen, and we need an investigation. We already have a crime and there could be alot more seriousness than we know now.


Hastert's investigation isn't over 'text messages,' as you put it, it's over covering up evidence of a sexual predator amongst his collegues. There have been several people who have testified under oath that Hastert's office knew about this for years, in front of the Ethics comittee. Don't bet on him keeping his job.

What part of what Reid did is a crime, exactly? I know that he failed to report his involvment in the LLC to the Senate ethics committee, reporting it as a personal property instead (same as Hastert with his land deal) but, it is illegal to do so? I haven't seen anyone alledge that he has committed a crime.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 12:47 pm
okie wrote:
parados wrote:
It certainly isn't illegal to have an informal arrangement in which 2 people bring assets to a partnership with an agreement that they each profit from their own asset upon sale of the combined assets. In fact such an informal agreement would make it likely for the persons involved to see the asset as still a personal asset.


Huh?

I could have all kinds of informal arrangements, but if they aren't on paper, they aren't an arrangement as far as the IRS is concerned, county clerk or assessor is concerned, or as far as any legal process is concerned. This is a weird way to conduct a $400,000 investment.


If you weren't so selective in your reading skills you would have read that the IRS sees LLC transactions as personal ones. They are listed on personal income tax forms. If anyone transfers money or property or anything from their personal account to an LLC account the IRS could care less. It all ends up in the same place. The only reason the IRS would be concerned is if you transferred it and tried to claim it affected your income.

The county clerk records ownership of the property. Who was recorded as owning it? I don't know for sure but it seems it was recorded as being owned by the LLC after 2001. The same LLC that the IRS doesn't give a damn about. I see no crime here. I can create companies every day and transfer the property from one to the next. The only thing that matters is that the state/county gets its filing fees for creating the company and the deed transfer.

Why does an assessor care who owns property? Isn't an assessment supposed to be on the value and have nothing to do with who owns it?

What legal process? You keep making vague allegations but have presented us with no action or a law that would make that action illegal.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 11:24 pm
Keep it up, Parados, but I think you are a bit naive about your man, Harry. The truth is you can keep posting your lawyerly defense of Mr. Reid, but I do not believe he would have hidden this holding company arrangement without a reason. Why are you so defensive of obviously questionable practices, Parados? Are you Reid's lawyer? And you are making some pretty stupid statements, like an assessor does not care who owns a property. Huh?

Parados, you are beginning to sound like you are a wheeler dealer as well. Creating LLC's and transferring property, every day, ho hum, the IRS doesn't care? Huh?

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/008269.php
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Oct, 2006 06:52 am
okie wrote:
Keep it up, Parados, but I think you are a bit naive about your man, Harry. The truth is you can keep posting your lawyerly defense of Mr. Reid, but I do not believe he would have hidden this holding company arrangement without a reason. Why are you so defensive of obviously questionable practices, Parados? Are you Reid's lawyer? And you are making some pretty stupid statements, like an assessor does not care who owns a property. Huh?

Parados, you are beginning to sound like you are a wheeler dealer as well. Creating LLC's and transferring property, every day, ho hum, the IRS doesn't care? Huh?

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/008269.php



You still haven't told us what was illegal or pointed to any law Reid broke.

He couldn't have broken the tax law based on the way the IRS interprets it and Congress wrote it. That has been explained. It doesn't make me a wheeler dealer. It makes the law the law. I can run as many schedule C businesses as I want to.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=158448,00.html

Getting cute with your name calling doesn't make your charge of Reid doing something illegal any more accurate. It only points to your inability to support your claim.

Your link doesn't work...
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Oct, 2006 12:19 pm
Not defending Reid, here, but do we need to make a list of lawmakers who have family members who are lobbyists? I would love it if we stopped this practice, but it's pretty widespread as it is.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Oct, 2006 02:23 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Not defending Reid, here, but do we need to make a list of lawmakers who have family members who are lobbyists? I would love it if we stopped this practice, but it's pretty widespread as it is.

It's a start. I'm all for it.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Oct, 2006 06:27 pm
parados wrote:
You still haven't told us what was illegal or pointed to any law Reid broke.


What about Title 18 US Code Section 1001

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001001----000-.html

There is much more to this affair than the above but that is a start.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2006 01:29 pm
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/16/D8KPS1G00.html

"Reid Decides to Amend Ethics Reports
Oct 16 1:26 PM US/Eastern

By JOHN SOLOMON
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON






Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid announced Monday he is amending his ethics reports to Congress to more fully account for a land deal that allowed him to collect $1.1 million for property he hadn't personally owned for three years.
Reid acted several days after The Associated Press reported the senator didn't disclose to Congress that he first sold the land to a friend's company back in 2001 and took an ownership stake in the company. He didn't collect the seven-figure payout until the company sold the land again in 2004 to others."

Amazing what a guilty conscience will do.

"
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2006 09:39 am
Now, Reid is buying Christmas presents with campaign money. Thats interesting. This guy is on the Senate ethics committee?



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,221503,00.html

He paid cash for the condo???? I thought only Republicans were rich?
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2006 09:55 am
okie wrote:
Now, Reid is buying Christmas presents with campaign money. Thats interesting. This guy is on the Senate ethics committee?



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,221503,00.html

He paid cash for the condo???? I thought only Republicans were rich?


Okie, you hit on something that is confusing me also.

I always thought it was the Repugs who did the "shady cash deals" and the dummycrats who doinked people of the same sex.

Now the roles apparently are reversed.

This is why you can not tell the difference between the Dems and the Repub's. They are both the same!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2006 09:59 am
woiyo wrote:
Okie, you hit on something that is confusing me also.


I suggest you quit reading Newsweek, woiyo, or the New York Times, or ANY AP article for that matter. It will confuse you. It has me.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all could practice justice as practiced by Reid. Mis-appropriate funds, and if we are caught, simply give it back and all is fine. Go rob $3,000 from the local convenience store, and if the cops don't catch us, great, but in the rare case they do, just give back the money and go home and have a party, and plan the next heist.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Oct, 2006 01:10 am
I have a question concerning the following statements from a news report:



Actually, I have many questions, but one would include how could the land be valued the same in 2001 when sold to the LLC corporation as it was in 1998, considering that just 3 years later in 2004, the land was sold again for a profit of $700,000? Shouldn't the IRS be interested in Reid's 1998 tax returns?

And this quote from the news story:

Reid and his wife, Landra, personally signed the deeds selling their full interest in the property to Brown's company, Patrick Lane LLC, for the same $400,000 they paid in 1998, records show.

A related question to my first question. Can I sell property to a friend's LLC far below its market value, in other words at a phony price, and escape income tax liability with an informal plan to later sell my interest in the LLC for a very high profit, perhaps with different or later tax consequences? Can I also escape reporting gifts from friends? My curiosity runs rampant here.

One more question. How come nobody is asking Dirty Harry (as Rush refers to him perhaps for a reason) to resign his postion in Congress and go back home to Searchlight, Nevada?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Oct, 2006 07:02 am
okie,

A couple of things.
First your law requires that something be done "knowingly and willfully". That is the same standard in the Libby case in which you claim Libby didn't commit a crime. Nice hypocrisy if you are willing to live with it.

My position is you have to prove both of them knew it at the time they did it.
As for whether the law actually applies in Reid's case. That is questionable. You have to show that the documents Reid filed were required by law, then you have to show he willfully made false statements on those documents, then you have to show the false statements are material.

I prefer the IRS over Rush when it comes to tax law. Maybe you should too.
You keep repeating the IRS thing. It is a false argument. There is no difference in tax consequences. For the purposes of tax law Reid paid the same tax whether he sold it personally in 2004 as he would have by transferring it to an LLC he was part owner of. The IRS sees nothing different between the 2. Both are listed in your personal income tax forms. I have pointed you to the tax forms for filing. You can continue to ignore it all you want. It only shows how desperate you are to try to make something of nothing.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Oct, 2006 09:25 am
If the land is solely owned by Reid, then it is sold to an LLC which is not solely owned by Reid, how is that reported as the same, Parados? It was sold for shares in the LLC, not wholly owned by Reid. I would like to sell my property to an LLC for shares in an LLC with other owners and avoid income tax on the sale, so Mr. Lawyer, tell me how I can do that legally? Shares in an LLC have value, the same as cash.

Rush hasn't talked about this much besides in passing, and not about this aspect. I am simply trying to figure this out, using simple common sense.
0 Replies
 
 

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