How can you not believe in evolution? Also ideas on Genesis

Btw, I thought I was speaking with a pretty woman. Turns out it's a scarecrow in a pointy hat and a blue coat.

Could be breeding purposes. Some species of birds select their mates on account of which one has the brightest and strongest yellow in their feathers.

Could be a mutational side-effect.

But I think it has to do with temperature. Don't know why. I just do.

Quote:

The color in feathers is caused either by pigments or light refraction on the structure of the feathers called structural colors. Only one bird, Touracos, contain green pigmentation in their feathers. Green feathers are caused by a combination of yellow pigment and the refraction of light on the structure of the feather. In blue-jays, the feather barbs contain three layers of melanin-containing cells. Air-filled cavities in these cells scatter blue light and absorb the longer red wavelengths. Thus, the blue is reflected into the eyes.

Source: NSTA (National Science Teachers Association)

Quote:

Birds acquire their color from pigments collected from the environment. Red, orange and yellow colors are usually derived from carotenoids (such as occur in carrots). These compounds occur naturally in seeds and fruits, but can be scarce in the wild. Accordingly, individuals must invest time and energy in finding sufficient quantities. Because individuals differ in their ability to find and metabolize these pigments, we see a range of color variation within a species. It is important to note that bright coloration, on its own, is rarely directly related to survival and reproduction. Rather, bright coloration is an indicator of high quality individuals that are also good foragers and are in good health. On average, females tend to select males that have brighter plumage to gain access to a bright males' foraging ability and genes. Thus, males that are able to maintain bright plumage tend to reproduce more than do less brightly-colored males. This pattern is common in many species of birds, as well as in mammals and other vertebrates.

Source: Cornell University Science Inquiry Partnership

hehe... I decided to show my true colors....

LOL Cyracuz... you are SO grasping at straws...

wandeljw wrote:

Quote:

The color in feathers is caused either by pigments or light refraction on the structure of the feathers called structural colors. Only one bird, Touracos, contain green pigmentation in their feathers. Green feathers are caused by a combination of yellow pigment and the refraction of light on the structure of the feather. In blue-jays, the feather barbs contain three layers of melanin-containing cells. Air-filled cavities in these cells scatter blue light and absorb the longer red wavelengths. Thus, the blue is reflected into the eyes.

Source: NSTA (National Science Teachers Association)

Hmmmmm...

wandeljw wrote:

Quote:

Birds acquire their color from pigments collected from the environment. Red, orange and yellow colors are usually derived from carotenoids (such as occur in carrots). These compounds occur naturally in seeds and fruits, but can be scarce in the wild. Accordingly, individuals must invest time and energy in finding sufficient quantities. Because individuals differ in their ability to find and metabolize these pigments, we see a range of color variation within a species. It is important to note that bright coloration, on its own, is rarely directly related to survival and reproduction. Rather, bright coloration is an indicator of high quality individuals that are also good foragers and are in good health. On average, females tend to select males that have brighter plumage to gain access to a bright males' foraging ability and genes. Thus, males that are able to maintain bright plumage tend to reproduce more than do less brightly-colored males. This pattern is common in many species of birds, as well as in mammals and other vertebrates.

Source: Cornell University Science Inquiry Partnership

Hmmmmm...

All very interesting stuff wandle...

I don't think it answers the question "why" though...

What do you think mega?

hephzibah wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

Quote:

The color in feathers is caused either by pigments or light refraction on the structure of the feathers called structural colors. Only one bird, Touracos, contain green pigmentation in their feathers. Green feathers are caused by a combination of yellow pigment and the refraction of light on the structure of the feather. In blue-jays, the feather barbs contain three layers of melanin-containing cells. Air-filled cavities in these cells scatter blue light and absorb the longer red wavelengths. Thus, the blue is reflected into the eyes.

Source: NSTA (National Science Teachers Association)

Hmmmmm...

wandeljw wrote:

Quote:

Birds acquire their color from pigments collected from the environment. Red, orange and yellow colors are usually derived from carotenoids (such as occur in carrots). These compounds occur naturally in seeds and fruits, but can be scarce in the wild. Accordingly, individuals must invest time and energy in finding sufficient quantities. Because individuals differ in their ability to find and metabolize these pigments, we see a range of color variation within a species. It is important to note that bright coloration, on its own, is rarely directly related to survival and reproduction. Rather, bright coloration is an indicator of high quality individuals that are also good foragers and are in good health. On average, females tend to select males that have brighter plumage to gain access to a bright males' foraging ability and genes. Thus, males that are able to maintain bright plumage tend to reproduce more than do less brightly-colored males. This pattern is common in many species of birds, as well as in mammals and other vertebrates.

Source: Cornell University Science Inquiry Partnership

Hmmmmm...

All very interesting stuff wandle...

I don't think it answers the question "why" though...

What do you think mega?

I would also like to hear mega's opinion.

This is what I get out of the 2 sources:
The color in feathers is a result of pigments acquired through what birds eat. Different natural habitat - different food. Different food - different colors. The birds with the best skills in foraging (acquiring food) have better color and are healthier. These birds have more success in attracting mates and thus reproduce more than birds that do not have a healthy looking color.

hephzibah wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

Quote:

The color in feathers is caused either by pigments or light refraction on the structure of the feathers called structural colors. Only one bird, Touracos, contain green pigmentation in their feathers. Green feathers are caused by a combination of yellow pigment and the refraction of light on the structure of the feather. In blue-jays, the feather barbs contain three layers of melanin-containing cells. Air-filled cavities in these cells scatter blue light and absorb the longer red wavelengths. Thus, the blue is reflected into the eyes.

Source: NSTA (National Science Teachers Association)

Hmmmmm...

wandeljw wrote:

Quote:

Birds acquire their color from pigments collected from the environment. Red, orange and yellow colors are usually derived from carotenoids (such as occur in carrots). These compounds occur naturally in seeds and fruits, but can be scarce in the wild. Accordingly, individuals must invest time and energy in finding sufficient quantities. Because individuals differ in their ability to find and metabolize these pigments, we see a range of color variation within a species. It is important to note that bright coloration, on its own, is rarely directly related to survival and reproduction. Rather, bright coloration is an indicator of high quality individuals that are also good foragers and are in good health. On average, females tend to select males that have brighter plumage to gain access to a bright males' foraging ability and genes. Thus, males that are able to maintain bright plumage tend to reproduce more than do less brightly-colored males. This pattern is common in many species of birds, as well as in mammals and other vertebrates.

Source: Cornell University Science Inquiry Partnership

Hmmmmm...

All very interesting stuff wandle...

I don't think it answers the question "why" though...

What do you think mega?

I would also like to hear mega's opinion.

This is what I get out of the 2 sources:
The color in feathers is a result of pigments acquired through what birds eat. Different natural habitat - different food. Different food - different colors. The birds with the best skills in foraging (acquiring food) have better color and are healthier. These birds have more success in attracting mates and thus reproduce more than birds that do not have a healthy looking color.

wandel

Maybe you are grasping at the same straws I am. Your answer seems adequate, since I fear that a specific cause for the evolution of blue feathers may be lost to us.

No one as to this day can map all the evolutional steps that led to the evolution of horses, such as they are, but it is still reasonable to say that the creature did evolve in steps from something else.

There's been found remnants of creatures that are by all evidence the ancestors of whales. These creatures were land dwellers, who evolved to creep back into the sea.

Cyracuz,
I probably should add that the color itself does not give them a survival advantage. The passing on of the color is more a matter of sexual selection than natural selection. The pigments for the color come from whatever food is available to that species of bird. I would say that color of bird feathers is related to their specific environment in that different environments have different things that are edible.

But in the case of bluejays it is a case of light refraction, not pigments. If a bluejay's feather is crushed, it is no longer blue. So it's not directly environmental as you suggest with foodsupplies and so on.

Blue Jays are not blue due to pigments though. The melanin-containing cells give the bird a grey color but that has little to do with the reason they are blue. I do think I have figured something out that may be worthy of consideration though.

Their light blue color is the result of deep blue being reflected along with the wavelengths that correspond to other colors, brightening it and making it appear light blue instead of deep blue. For example, if you were to open a graphics program and set the Blue value to 255 (100%) and slowly increase the Red and Green values so they approach 255 (100%) then the resulting color will be lighter and lighter blue and slowly becomes white. This tells me that they are reflecting much more than the wavelengths that correspond with the color blue. The blue wavelength, however, is the most reflected of the bunch. That is assuming, of course, that the our visible light spectrum is the only colors they are refracting or are the only ones that are important to birds. Blue is a short wavelength color, one of the shortest that we are capable of perceiving, and ultraviolet, which humans cannot directly perceive, is a shorter wavelength color that isn't far away from blue in the light spectrum. They may be reflecting blue quite strongly, but they may be reflecting ultraviolet just as strongly.

I decided to look into the use of ultraviolet colors in the bird kingdom and ultraviolet seems to plays a large role in distinguishing siblings from birds of a different species. As such, adaptation to refracting ultraviolet color would confer a survival advantage. They may be refracting ultraviolet light to attract females just like peacocks flash their colors to get the attention of females. I think it is quite possible that the appearance of blue is a side-effect of trying to refract the shorter ultraviolet wavelength. Instead of calling them Blue Jays, perhaps it would be more appropriate to call them Ultraviolet Jays?

But this leaves open the question of why the blue and white colors have not been selected against by their environment. From the perspective of a cat or similar bird-hunter looking up into a tree, the blue color can blend in with the color of the sky. The white can also blend in with the color of the snow. These two colors may be side-effects but they also confer some small survival advantages. Any disadvantages caused by these colors would be offset by the advantages caused by the refraction of ultraviolet.

I don't know if this is the correct answer, but it seems plausible on first glance.

Ok, here's another question too while we're at it. Who's to say that these remnants they have found are not just remnants of creatures that are extinct, and not necessarily an "in between" stage of evolution?

Wait a second here though big bird. How can you be so certain that there was evolution of these blue feathers in the first place? Has science found evidence of such a thing?