There is no such thing as a muslim or a christian child, only a child brought up in a muslim or christian family. Few people are able to escape their early upbringing. A child believes what the adult tells him/her, in fact is programmed to believe for good reasons of survivability. They also project intentions into inanimate objects. If the adult tells them its bad to swim in the crocodile infested river they believe it. (The ones who insist on testing the hypothesis tend not to reproduce) If the adult tells them they must sacrifice a goat to make it rain on the crops they believe it. Young children dont have the mental maturity to be able to answer back or question why or suggest that goat sacrifice is a waste of time and (in Dawkins phrase) goats.
but i'm the only Christian in my family, both parents, both set of grandparents and my sister are all atheist or agnostic. i myself was atheist until i was 15, then began to accept the views of others and just before my 16th i became Christian. nothing in my unbringing had anything to do with my faith now.
Children are also not stupid. They will soon learn that it does not rain when a goat is sacrificed.
rockpie wrote:but i'm the only Christian in my family, both parents, both set of grandparents and my sister are all atheist or agnostic. i myself was atheist until i was 15, then began to accept the views of others and just before my 16th i became Christian. nothing in my unbringing had anything to do with my faith now.
Let your faith guide you. Don't be swayed by those who have no faith and want to change you from what you are. Continue to explore and find the answers that you need.
Fundamentalists and literalists - of whatever religious stripe - cannot be considered rational. It is their delusions, their perversions of religious tenets - that pose the danger presented by religion. While today's sciencephobic, hyper-moralistic Christian biblethumpers and militantly radical Islamists may represent numerical minorities within their respective larger demographics, the damge they cause is intolerable; they both are throwbacks to The Dark Ages and are threats to civilization.
Would you say that irrational atheist, of any stripe, that cause intolerable damage are not threats to civilization?
Intrepid wrote:Would you say that irrational atheist, of any stripe, that cause intolerable damage are not threats to civilization?
Of course not. Irrational extremism is intolerable regardless its ideologic bent. Kim Jong Il, for example.
Im gonna have to go with "not true". Weve got a supposed inerrant book of rules that contains numerous errors and illogical statements. Those that we know are untrue make me question all the others.
What percent of thge Bible is true?
How do you know it?
If your answer is "Faith" then all youve done is engaged in circular reasoning.
I mean consider the statement'
"To believe in Jesus, you must have faith". Your meaning is boiled down to "In order to have faith, you must have faith"
Im a data kind of guy.
timberlandko wrote:Intrepid wrote:Would you say that irrational atheist, of any stripe, that cause intolerable damage are not threats to civilization?
Of course not. Irrational extremism is intolerable regardless its ideologic bent. Kim Jong Il, for example.
Good to hear. Just checkin
you're not wrong there flamebird
ever thought about starting your own religion?
i see. but even if God doesn't exist, without Christianity, i would not be a very moral person. before i found Christ i was an unruly youth who to be honest couldn't give a s**t about anybody else. but now i would gladly help out anybody in a tough situation whereas before i'd just laugh. i'm glad that you find happiness in the joy of others and the solving of problems Phoenix, i do too, but without a religion of some kind to guide people, alot would not be as strong minded as you and find pleasure in violence, greed and abuse of almost every area of other peoples lives. its a sad thing to say but even if there is no God, people need some form of moral guidance.
rockpie wrote:i see. but even if God doesn't exist, without Christianity, i would not be a very moral person. before i found Christ i was an unruly youth who to be honest couldn't give a s**t about anybody else. but now i would gladly help out anybody in a tough situation whereas before i'd just laugh. i'm glad that you find happiness in the joy of others and the solving of problems Phoenix, i do too, but without a religion of some kind to guide people, alot would not be as strong minded as you and find pleasure in violence, greed and abuse of almost every area of other peoples lives. its a sad thing to say but even if there is no God, people need some form of moral guidance.
Without God you would be a yob? You havent found God RP you've just found a measure of maturity. Do you really think people only do good because they fear punishment in the afterlife? What a depressing thought. I dont believe people are naturally bad and have to be bullied into doing good. Charity blesses him who gives as well as him who receives. But if you're only giving on sufferance it kind of takes the edge off it abit wouldnt you agree?
Intrepid wrote:Phoenix32890 wrote:The other problem with the radical religions is that they are very authoritarian. They present a body of thought, and demand that a follower accept it wholesale, without question. As such, a vulnerable person is backed into a corner. If he wants to remain part of the group, he needs to follow along completely, despite any doubts that he might have. If not, he is deprived of the emotional support that these groups offer to one another.
It is so much easier to suspend judgement, and simply accept a religion's tenets, without thinking it through on your own. Critical analysis is not easy, and is certainly difficult for the individual who is grappling with his own personal demons. Thinking things through for yourself is ultimately far more satisfying for a person.
What do you consider to be "radical religions"? What evidence do you have than any religion is authoritarian? Who are the vulnerable people? Why would religion want to back a "vulnerable person" into a corner? How do you know that emotional support is being withheld?
Who should judge? How do you know that those who have religion do not think it through on their own?
I think that rockpie makes some very good points, despite his/her young age.
Everybody should think things through for themselves. I am wondering if you are referring to some of those weird and wacky cults? Are you talking about mainstream religion?
Phoenix
Did you miss this, or did you choose not to respond?
moral guidance is not the only purpose for religion, as i have said it gives meaning to life, it provides something to confide in. i suppose the answer on whether religion is true depends on if there is a God, and which God that is, and for most people it is only one God. for me God is everything i need at any time. if i need money, and somebody gives me some, i would thank God even though some would argue it was from their own kindness that i received the money. also i think different perceptions of what or who God is can influence whether you believe or not. for matter of argument i'll say that God and Satan are simply the 2 extremes of the human conscience that are so powerful in what they tell you is right and wrong that some will believe that it is some kind of supernatural guidance that they are receiving, but then if God is simply an invention of the human brain/conscience does that not say that we are all, to an extent, Godly, and does the Bible not say we are based on his image?
Phoenix,
Thank you for your well thought out reply. I appreciate your candor and explanation.
Phoenix: earlier you stated that faith was the antithesis of reason. but do you not need faith in your reasoning to believe that it is right? what you consider as reason might not be what others consider as reason so you need faith in your own reason, do you see? so how can faith and reason be opposites when the one needs the other?
