LEGISLATORS Murder Young Students

Your mindless rantings are a danger to children. If you cared about children you would not be wanting to put weapons into their hands.

Speaking of rantings....Not only is your huge coloured font useage rather childish, but your spelling is much below average. Cud is something that cows regurgitate and chew... I assume you mean could. Then again, I could be wrong because it is hard to assume anything that you say.

Cud = Could, for those without the capacity to interpret his language.
A2K is full of "spelling wardens" who will flame you, shud u speel anyting wong . Even if they dislike the color or size of your post. BEWARE!
Unless of course you could'nt give a rats ass, I know I dont.

Kids with guns? HAHA, your funny.

Here in New Zealand thiers no school shootings. Which begs the question, why is the U, S of A so "shoot-em up"?

You were armed as a kid? Thats sick, what were you afraid of, the boogieman?

Yes, I don 't.

I wish to demonstrate
that the conventional orthografic paradime
is wastefully inefficient
and that new generations of children
( or anyone else ) can be free to abide by simple logic,
rejecting so much of that old spelling convention
as is not efficient or helpful. I wish to lead by example.
About 100 years before I began to demonstrate this,
President Teddy Roosevelt attempted something similar
and was ridiculed; ( some samples of his ridicule on display
in the American Museum of Natural History ).
Hence, I expected it b4 I started it.
The ridicule is ineffective ( rat 's asswise ).


Well, when I was 8 years old,
I lived in a crime-free neighborhood,
but I felt ill-at-ease at home anyway,
fearing that I cud not defend the place
if I had to. A few weeks later, I won a
2 inch .38 revolver in a poker game
with some other kids, and felt a greater sense
of tranquility since then. Some years later,
I upgraded to a 2" .44 special revolver,
loaded with hollowpointed slugs, for better stopping power.

Neither I nor the other kids,
who were as well armed as I was,
needed our ordnance for any defensive purposes,
but no harm resulted from our armament.

We enjoyed our target practice on the desert and elsewhere. I still do.
Your laffter is harmless.
I suppose that I cud laff at your New Zealand,
but I find no need to. I wish u happiness.




When I was a kid ( an armed kid ) we had no shootings,
except on the gunnery range.


Yeah; I still am.




Yeah.
U r right.
I had no reason to fear; just a sense of disquiet,
until I had the means of defense.

No trouble ever came about in my neighborhood.
I just felt that way,
until I had a way to defend my home.

Nice to meet u, sir or madam.
David

OR people with knives or any sharp object,
or with chains, or ropes,
or with rocks, or with cars, or with any BLUNT object,
or with Molotov cocktails ( = a bottle of gasoline with a burning rag on it ),
or fertilizer boms, etc, etc.

Maybe u believe that criminals
waited around, pacing back n forth, impatient
for guns to be invented
b4 anyone started killing anyone, right ??

and Y in classical antiquity,
no one cud kill anyone,
so neither Caesar nor Attila the Hun
just cud not get their jobs done, RIGHT ??

David

Ok.

Anyone could kill with anything, I understand that much.

Is the fact that someone could kill you enough to arm one's self in order to retaliate with the same evil.

Doesnt arming everybody force a criminal with killer intent to use more efficient methods of killing, i.e. suicide bombing?
How will your hand gun compete with someone standing next to you in the subway with explosives concealed under his/her jacket?
If you raise the bar on civilian armed defencives, the criminal bar must raise higher so the criminal minds can still achieve thier objectives (however dire thier intentions).

Just a thought.

Yes.
Even ( unregistered ) bed pillows have been applied to that effect.



Retaliation is not the theory of defense.

The idea is to disable the murderer,
by killing him as soon as possible,
b4 he can execute his evil plan.



The concept is that government does NOT
interfere with anyone attending to his own self defense.
L'aissez faire freedom

It is not like in the Army
when everyone is issued an M 16, etc.




No.
He can forget it,
or more likely he 'll choose a softer target
who has opted against defensive measures,
if he can find such.

For instance, Vermont has never had any gun laws
and Alaska has repealed all of its gun laws a year or 2 ago,
with no ill effects. No criminals have been found
to have been forced to do anything
( except MAYBE to evacuate the area, in favor of
safer hunting grounds where there still exists gun control ).




Different tools serve different functions.

Handguns are for defense from ordinary street crime,
not from fanatical warfare.




In Vermont or Alaska, with no gun laws,
escalating criminal devices was not found to become a problem.



Will u agree that actual experience
trumps abstract theory ?
David

Who knows.

All I know is... Nothing really, this is just a small opinion from a small city in a small country in the middle of a huge ocean.

To me, from what you've said, you make america sound like a warzone.
Like a "if your not armed your dead" mentality.
Honestly, because of this, I would never want to set a single foot on your land without the fear of testicular electrolosis.

Let me ask you some questions just so I have some sort of context inwhich to base my opinion.

How many guns do you own?
Do you take your gun/s out with you, when you leave the house?
Someone knocks on the door, do you take your gun to the door?
Do the majority of your friends share this same paranoia, ahem, I mean civil armament perspectives? (pls dont shoot me it was a joke . . . ha ha)

And finally, why do you carry guns again? Defence? Oh please, if someone REALLY wanted to kill you and KNEW you possessed a firearm (which pretty much covers everybody in america) they would find a way.

"Thiers more then one way to skin a cat" so to speak.

BOTTEM LINE
After all thats said in done.
Just as you guys have no control over your government, I have no control over your opinions. To you I am just another internet "person", as you are to me. A2K wasnt put here to persuade, it was made to argue.
So instead of ranting on for hundreds of pages, i'll make it short and sweet.

Where I live no guns works just fine.
Where you live (for some reason or another) you feel everyone should have a gun, and if that works for you, fine.

OmSigDAVID said:


And what exactly is your experience, have you killed anybody, saved anybody, blasted any thugs with your trusty high velocity metal firing combustion device of death lately, superman?

Doonesbury

Serious Violent Crime in Schools

Without faulty risk assessment, he's got nuthin'.

It just rankles to see the latest "tragedy of the week" used in an yet another attempt to further a paranoid's agenda.

When I was in High School (late 60's) we had a Rifle Club which I was a mamber of. We could bring the rifles to school and store them in the target range room. It was a fairly rough school, with several "gangs" who usually used knives and clubs as their "weapon of choice".

They never messed with us members of the Rifle Club.

Well, it seems to me that there's a bit of difference between an organized, presumably well supervised, school club and allowing the general arming of an entire student body.

Frankly, there were students in my high school who shouldn't have been allowed access to a pointed pencil, let alone a gun.

Seems to me that where guns are readily available (America) there is more violence. Fact.

States that have gun control have less violence. Fact.

Why is America the most violent country on earth? It's not the movies, or the video games because all countries have that.

It's the ease with which americans can obtain guns. Nut cases like the above poster, OmSigDAVID, are what is wrong with America. They are afraid of their own shadow. If you own a gun and have it handy you will find a reason to use it sooner or later. This guy sounds like he's either killed someone or sure wants to. If I were a cop I'd be monitoring his emails. He's one angry bas*ard which is evident in his huge red writing.

It is not a questiion of being " available ";
in my childhood,
the kids in my neighborhood,
MADE their own guns because it was FUN
ez, and fast, regardless of our possession
of plenty of commericially manufactured guns;
made and set off boms, too,
in our backyards, and on the desert.




It is NOT " fact "; u don 't know what u r talking about.
Vermont has never had any gun laws
and it has always been at the bottom of the list of
states' crime annual history.
Alaska repealed all of its gun laws about 2 years ago,
with no effect on crime.

40 of the 50 states rejected gun control
in favor of law that FORCES police to grant a license
to anyone who applies for it,
unless there is something drasticly bad with him,
e.g., judicial finding of mental instability
or a violent criminal history,
and crime has declined in those states,
the year after thay rejected tho old gun control.

U have no idea of what u speak.
Why is America the most violent country on earth? [/quote]
I challenge u to PROVE
that it is.



Your hysterical mud slinging.



I 've been armed with revolvers
since the age of 8, several decades ago.
Shot no one YET.
PROVE your allegation.
It is false.






That is unconstitutional; 4th Amendment violation.
U r a supporter of despotism.
U shud go to live in North Korea.

He's one angry bas*ard which is evident in his huge red writing.

Hee-hee. OSD accuses someone else of hysteria.

The pot calls the kettle......

I deny your accusation.
I have never been hysterical.

A little annoyed once in a while maybe,
but never hysterical.

The only reason that u persist
in these personal insults
is whose ox is gored;
if I supported YOUR philosophy,
then u 'd be happy with me.




If u prove your merit
by hurling enuf ad hominem mud,
then I may see
the high value of your anti-freedom philosophical position.

David

Here - for the hysterical DAVID with the GUN for an avatar:
Here is your proof that america is more violent than any other industrialized country. Provided U can read and comprehend I expect U to answer this post. I challenge you to dispute the facts.

SOURCE: www.neahin.org

Statistics: Gun Violence in Our Communities

School Safety
Less than 1% of all homicides among school-aged children (5-19 years of age) occur in or around school grounds or on the way to and from school. (Centers for Disease Control, 1997)

Children and Gun Violence
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

America and Gun Violence
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

Guns in the Wrong Hands
Faulty records enable terrorists, illegal aliens and criminals to purchase guns. Over a two and a half-year period, at least 9,976 convicted felons and other illegal buyers in 46 states obtained guns because of inadequate records. (Broken Records, Americans for Gun Safety Foundation)

School Safety

Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001)
In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)
Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998)
The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993)

Children and Gun Violence

America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund) The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
America and Gun Violence

Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)
Guns in the Wrong Hands

Americans for Gun Safety produced a 2003 report that reveals that 20 of the nation's 22 national gun laws are not enforced. According to U.S. Department of Justice data (FY 2000-2002), only 2% of federal gun crimes were actually prosecuted. Eighty-five percent of cases prosecuted relate to street criminals in possession of firearms. Ignored are laws intended to punish illegal gun trafficking, firearm theft, corrupt gun dealers, lying on a criminal background check form, obliterating firearm serial numbers, selling guns to minors and possessing a gun in a school zone. To access The Enforcement Gap: Federal Gun Laws Ignored, visit http://w3.agsfoundation.com/. For a state-by-state chart of gun crimes (FY 2000-2002), click here.
Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources. For more details, click here.
Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification. According to the Middle East Intelligence Report, for example, a Hezbollah member was arrested in November 2000, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's counter-terrorism unit. Ali Boumelhem was later convicted on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents had observed Boumelhem, a resident of Detroit and Beirut, travel to Michigan gun shows and buy gun parts and ammunition for shipment overseas. Boumelhem was prohibited from legally purchasing guns as gun stores because he was a convicted felon. Additional cases involve a Pakistani national with an expired (1988) student visa; a Lebanese native and Hamas member with numerous felony convictions; and a supporter of the Irish Republican Army. (USA Today, Wednesday, November 28, 2001 Americans for Gun Safety)
According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy" visit www.agsfoundation.com.
The American Medical Association reports that between 36% and 50% of male eleventh graders believe that they could easily get a gun if they wanted one.
In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)
According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001).

Yes, but if all those dead children had been packing heat, they would probably be alive today.





Sorry, I just couldn't say that with a straight face...

Are kids and teens being shot by other kids and teens? Are they being shot on purpose or was it accidental fire? How many were in drive by shootings or mass shootings?

Those are horrible numbers you posted, pachelbel.

Only an eerie silence remains where David once stood.

OmG Guns Are Awsome DAVID's sig reads:


Everyone are sheep. There are no wolves, just sheep with guns.

Does your sig imply that, in order to level the battle field everyone should have guns? Whats the advantage of having a gun to defend yourself if everyone has guns? This is what. From your stand point you see not owning a gun a disadvantage BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS THEM. If NOBODY had guns you wouldnt get your nipple in a twist, which is where im coming from.

According to OMD's previous posts. Guns would be manufactured by children if they were not available. He even told us that kids in his neighbourhood (where he packed a piece from age 8) made guns. Of course, he didn't specify details. It will be interesting to see him use a full page with a rebuttal to pachelbel in 12 words or less.

Enjoy your chuckles.
I am not a minuteman.
I take a rest once in a while;
( maybe A FEW TIMES, in a while ).



OmG Guns Are Awsome DAVID's sig reads:




Well, in addition to the need for defense from humans,
there remains the occasional need for defense
from non-humans, depending on the circumstances.

However, my point is that
the predators CANNOT be disarmed
except by killing them,
or doing as Julius Ceasar did,
disarming the defeated enemies of Rome,
by amputation.

The future victims of crime NEED defensive weaponry.
Thay have a NATURAL RIGHT and a Constitutional Right
to self defense from violent depredations
and immediate access to defensive equipment
for predatory emergencies.







Yes; that is wise.

It is wise to be prepared to deal effectively and successfully
with any foreseeable emergency.
I also advocate the BANISHMENT
of violently criminal recidivists.

From Kitty Genovese, in N.Y.C., to Reginald Denny in L.A.,
citizens have found out the hard way that police can be away
for a long time when you need them.
Should your life depend on other people who are not around?





There are multiple advantages:
1. If u r attacked by a robber or a murderer,
u have the best possibility of a successful defense,
if u have the optimal defensive tool for the job
( hopefully with practice in using it ) than if u have nothing.
Man is a tool using species; we rose to the top of the food chain,
and we rose to the Moon, thru the use of tools.
Failure to be properly equipped
can cost u your property, including your good health and your life.

2. If your fellow citizen observes a robbery in progress
in the street, he can ( if he chooses to ) rise to the victim 's defense,
but not if the observer is ill equipped for the job.

3. A common state of helplessness in the populace
encourgages crime, because criminal predators
feel SAFE in their depredations on-the-job.

In a well armed populace,
criminals do not feel as safe
in doing their predatory jobs
and thus are less inclined to commit
the crime, or more inclined to evacuate
a dangerous situation, and relocate
to a jurisdiction where thay have gun control
to protect them,
by disarming their victims before their crimes are committed.

Violent criminals in prisons,
who are interviewed on TV have agreed
that thay have little fear of police,
to whom thay can simply, peacefully surrender,
in a worst case scenario,
than thay r of an enraged armed victim,
or friend of victim, at the scene of the crime.

Let us be cognizant that criminals
did not wait around for guns to be invented
before thay began to rob and murder.



Well, certainly CRIMINALS have armed themselves
as well as thay wish to be armed; ( thay have FOREVER to do so ).
Many decent people are also armed in their defense,
but not " everyone "; that is not what I said.






Y wud criminals NOT have guns ?
U think thay will throw them in the garbage ?
and if thay do so,
that thay cannot get replacements
( presumably of fully automatic weapons,
since thay r ez to make )
from an underground gunsmith/gun merchant,
if thay themselves are too lazy or clumsy to make the guns themselves ?

Thay have even made guns in prisons.
Guns were among the world's first machines with moving parts,
(tho more easily made now with modern "know-how").
Guns were not new to Columbus nor to his grandfather.
They are simple machines, easily made.
( The M-1 Carbine was invented by a prisoner, David Williams,
in prison for moonshining; convicts have secretly made pistols
[including fully functional submachineguns] in the prison workshop,
one-part-at-a-time, with the guards around, assembled in private. )

The accumulated knowledge of the gunsmith is not secret;
it is among the world's freely available engineering data.
If criminals had no guns, they'd arm themselves using that information
and access to the hardware stores of America;
thus the FUTILITY of "gun control" philosophy:
the disarmament of criminals is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

REMOVAL from America of violently felonious recidivists can reduce misconduct
Crime comes from bad people, not tools.
Should umbrellas be blamed for rain? pens for forgery?
spoons for obesity?

The repressionists want to remove guns, saying they are sometimes used
to facilitate crime. They fail to understand that the actual weapon
is the HUMAN MIND, whose cleverness has not been controlled nor
restrained (even in prison). This mind expresses itself perseveringly,
into the manifestation of its felt needs or desires, and it has FOREVER
to do the job that it selects (e.g., the art of the gunsmith/merchant). Prohibition is futile.