THE DANGER OF GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES

I'm gonna let you in on a big secret here. The 1911 would come closer to stopping a big bear than the 06 would although both are marginal. What you really want is a 44 mag pistol with heavy ammo or a Marlin lever action in 44 mag or, better, 45/70. Either one of those will drop a grizzly with one or two shots.

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gungasnake wrote:

I'm gonna let you in on a big secret here. The 1911 would come closer to stopping a big bear than the 06 would although both are marginal. What you really want is a 44 mag pistol with heavy ammo or a Marlin lever action in 44 mag or, better, 45/70. Either one of those will drop a grizzly with one or two shots.

Thanks for the advice.
I don 't hang around much in bear country.
My gun collection consists predominantly
of anti-personnel weapons ( mostly revolvers )
including a 7 1/2" .44 magnum Ruger SuperBlackhawk
and my fighting gun:
a 2" .44 special SA/DA revolver
with hollowpointed slugs with W-I-D-E cavities
( to put the brakes on within the target,
hopefully discharging the muzzle energy therein,
avoiding overpenetration ).

I 'd not wish to distort the account,
as Jean Shepherd related it on his radio show.

To her CREDIT,
the child 's mom prohibited him
from " going out there with anything LESS
than a .30-30 " ; I infer that more powerful
ordnance wud have met with her approval.
David

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My loving god, Gunga and omsig... your bold and husky voices thrill me so.

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Yeah, be still my pitter pattering heart.

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I guess that 's the best that either of u can do.

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Circumstances change here and there. Even a pinko commie faggot peacenik hippie rat could end up wanting to buy a firearm at some point in their lives, so it would do even them a little bit of good to understand just the littlest bit about them. Not that we have anybody here who meets that sort of description, but....

Guns have different applications. For shooting a big bear, a 357 magnum is about the absolute minimum and a 44 magnum is about right. People who carry pistols for protection from bears generally load 44mag ammo heavy. Nobody goes about any sort of business unarmed in bear country, that's basically a fact of life.

Now, for personal or home protection, you really don't want the 44 mag since there's a good chance you might have to use the thing indoors, and you'd be bleeding from both ears and could easily never hear again.

About the biggest thing you want to shoot indoors without hearing protectors on is the 45 acp and a 9mm or 40SM is more normal. The SW in this case stands for Smith/Wesson, and not Sado-Masochism....

The point I was trying to get across earlier is that an idiot yuppie who didn't know any better might walk into bear country believing the sales hype about 30 caliber magnum rifles and thinking that was a good thing to shoot a big bear with, which it really isn't. He'd be lucky to survive such an encounter.

Ballistics and lethality are marginally related at best. The most lethal firearms ever used in war were those used in the American civil war and the last thing you'd ever want to get shot with in any store which sells firearms is the old 50 caliber muzzle-loading black powder deer rifle which sells for $200 or thereabouts. Even a 44 magnum, which is basically a pistol cartridge, is going to kill large animals more efficiently than any sort of 30 caliber rifle, magnum or otherwise, at normal distances i.e. inside of 100 yards. That's despite having about a third the muzzle energy of a 300 magnum rifle cartridge.

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"Even a pinko commie faggot peacenik hippie rat"

I feel so loved right now.

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...I thought they meant me - I felt loved, too.

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OmSigDAVID wrote:

Montana wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
Ok kids, here's your lunch box and don't forget to bring your gun

Jean Shepherd had an interesting story about that.
He went to visit an old war buddy, in the Northwest,
whom he had not seen for several years.

Jean was welcomed by his wife n 12 year old son,
his friend being away at the time.
The boy offered to take him to a good fishing hole
in their Jeep. He threw a .45 cal. 1911 pistol into
the Jeep and got in. His mother came out of their house
and demanded: " Did u take your dad 's .45 pistol ? "

The boy sheepishly looked down and admitted that he had,
whereupon his mom screamed at him:
" How many times do I have to tell u ?
U NEVER GO OUT THERE
WITH ANYTHING LESS THAN A .30-30 ??? "

Apparently she did not want her boy eaten
by the local fauna.
David

I had to go and say something, didn't I?

I respect your 1st Amendment rights;
( as well as your 2nd )

See. I told you that OSD doesn't know anything about Canada.

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gungasnake wrote:

I'm gonna let you in on a big secret here. The 1911 would come closer to stopping a big bear than the 06 would although both are marginal. What you really want is a 44 mag pistol with heavy ammo or a Marlin lever action in 44 mag or, better, 45/70. Either one of those will drop a grizzly with one or two shots.

.....and the 12 year old boy would be able to handle that?

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Intrepid wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
Ok kids, here's your lunch box and don't forget to bring your gun

Jean Shepherd had an interesting story about that.
He went to visit an old war buddy, in the Northwest,
whom he had not seen for several years.

Jean was welcomed by his wife n 12 year old son,
his friend being away at the time.
The boy offered to take him to a good fishing hole
in their Jeep. He threw a .45 cal. 1911 pistol into
the Jeep and got in. His mother came out of their house
and demanded: " Did u take your dad 's .45 pistol ? "

The boy sheepishly looked down and admitted that he had,
whereupon his mom screamed at him:
" How many times do I have to tell u ?
U NEVER GO OUT THERE
WITH ANYTHING LESS THAN A .30-30 ??? "

Apparently she did not want her boy eaten
by the local fauna.
David

I had to go and say something, didn't I?

I respect your 1st Amendment rights;
( as well as your 2nd )

See. I told you that OSD doesn't know anything about Canada.

Right again Laughing

0 Replies

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Montana wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
Ok kids, here's your lunch box and don't forget to bring your gun

Jean Shepherd had an interesting story about that.
He went to visit an old war buddy, in the Northwest,
whom he had not seen for several years.

Jean was welcomed by his wife n 12 year old son,
his friend being away at the time.
The boy offered to take him to a good fishing hole
in their Jeep. He threw a .45 cal. 1911 pistol into
the Jeep and got in. His mother came out of their house
and demanded: " Did u take your dad 's .45 pistol ? "

The boy sheepishly looked down and admitted that he had,
whereupon his mom screamed at him:
" How many times do I have to tell u ?
U NEVER GO OUT THERE
WITH ANYTHING LESS THAN A .30-30 ??? "

Apparently she did not want her boy eaten
by the local fauna.
David

I had to go and say something, didn't I?

I respect your 1st Amendment rights;
( as well as your 2nd )

Thanks very much. All that respect just makes me all warm inside.

0 Replies

Intrepid wrote:

gungasnake wrote:
I'm gonna let you in on a big secret here. The 1911 would come closer to stopping a big bear than the 06 would although both are marginal. What you really want is a 44 mag pistol with heavy ammo or a Marlin lever action in 44 mag or, better, 45/70. Either one of those will drop a grizzly with one or two shots.

.....and the 12 year old boy would be able to handle that?

Easily. Particularly a lever action rifle chambered for 44 mag, even with heavy 44mag ammo.

Let me tell you a story, which relates to the thing I was saying about lethality vs ballistics.

A friend was hunting in Texas a year and a half ago or so and had his wife's 44mag Marlin rifle with, and shot a 400 lb boar and dropped him where he stood. And then a half hour later a guy in the same group with a 300 Remington ultramag, i.e. a rifle with three times the muzzle energy and ballistics of the Marlin shot a boar half that size, and it was a well placed shot, and they had to go chasing cross country after that one, found him a hundred and fifty yards roughly from where he'd been shot, and the guy was in a state of shock.

Basic reality is that 90% of actual killing of game animals is inside of 100 yards, and there is no reasonable way to manufacture a bullet which expands properly both at 300 and at 70 yards, so that depending on expansion is not a reasonable way to go hunting. The 44mag and 45/70 of course do not depend on expansion all that much.

The Marlin lever action 45/70 is basically America's most lethal gun. A 12-year-old could shoot it with mild ammo and the mildest ammo there is for a 45/70, i.e. a 300 grain bullet moving at about 1800 fps, will absolutely flatten anything to be found in North America.

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gungasnake wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
I'm gonna let you in on a big secret here. The 1911 would come closer to stopping a big bear than the 06 would although both are marginal. What you really want is a 44 mag pistol with heavy ammo or a Marlin lever action in 44 mag or, better, 45/70. Either one of those will drop a grizzly with one or two shots.

.....and the 12 year old boy would be able to handle that?

Easily. Particularly a lever action rifle chambered for 44 mag, even with heavy 44mag ammo.

Let me tell you a story, which relates to the thing I was saying about lethality vs ballistics.

All very interesting. Why did the boar and the bear need to be killed in the first place? Did they provide food and clothing? Or, was it just fun to do?

A friend was hunting in Texas a year and a half ago or so and had his wife's 44mag Marlin rifle with, and shot a 400 lb boar and dropped him where he stood. And then a half hour later a guy in the same group with a 300 Remington ultramag, i.e. a rifle with three times the muzzle energy and ballistics of the Marlin shot a boar half that size, and it was a well placed shot, and they had to go chasing cross country after that one, found him a hundred and fifty yards roughly from where he'd been shot, and the guy was in a state of shock.

Basic reality is that 90% of actual killing of game animals is inside of 100 yards, and there is no reasonable way to manufacture a bullet which expands properly both at 300 and at 70 yards, so that depending on expansion is not a reasonable way to go hunting. The 44mag and 45/70 of course do not depend on expansion all that much.

The Marlin lever action 45/70 is basically America's most lethal gun. A 12-year-old could shoot it with mild ammo and the mildest ammo there is for a 45/70, i.e. a 300 grain bullet moving at about 1800 fps, will absolutely flatten anything to be found in North America.

All very interesting. Why did the boar and bear need to be killed in the first place? Did they provide food and clothing? Or, was it just fun to do?

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The boar got eaten. I never said anything about shooting bears and I don't know anybody who does that. The ONLY reason I'd ever shoot a bear would be self defense.

Nothing I ever see or read about the way meat animals are raised any more makes me feel terribly good about eating any of them. A deer or a boar which gets shot and cooked has had a halfway reasonable life prior to that, as opposed to having spent his life in a cage being injected with chemicals and force-fed.

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Yah, they lived a good life up until being shot and chased cross country after that one, found him a hundred and fifty yards roughly from where he'd been shot. As you have stated.

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Montana wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
Ok kids, here's your lunch box and don't forget to bring your gun

Jean Shepherd had an interesting story about that.
He went to visit an old war buddy, in the Northwest,
whom he had not seen for several years.

Jean was welcomed by his wife n 12 year old son,
his friend being away at the time.
The boy offered to take him to a good fishing hole
in their Jeep. He threw a .45 cal. 1911 pistol into
the Jeep and got in. His mother came out of their house
and demanded: " Did u take your dad 's .45 pistol ? "

The boy sheepishly looked down and admitted that he had,
whereupon his mom screamed at him:
" How many times do I have to tell u ?
U NEVER GO OUT THERE
WITH ANYTHING LESS THAN A .30-30 ??? "

Apparently she did not want her boy eaten
by the local fauna.
David

I had to go and say something, didn't I?

I respect your 1st Amendment rights;
( as well as your 2nd )

See. I told you that OSD doesn't know anything about Canada.

Right again

I 'll admit THAT.

I believe that it is somewhere north of America
( except for Alaska );
that 's about all.

However,
I have been led to believe
that Montana is in AMERICA,
and from use of the name,
I surmised ( in error ? )
that u are there.
David

0 Replies

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Montana wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
Ok kids, here's your lunch box and don't forget to bring your gun

Jean Shepherd had an interesting story about that.
He went to visit an old war buddy, in the Northwest,
whom he had not seen for several years.

Jean was welcomed by his wife n 12 year old son,
his friend being away at the time.
The boy offered to take him to a good fishing hole
in their Jeep. He threw a .45 cal. 1911 pistol into
the Jeep and got in. His mother came out of their house
and demanded: " Did u take your dad 's .45 pistol ? "

The boy sheepishly looked down and admitted that he had,
whereupon his mom screamed at him:
" How many times do I have to tell u ?
U NEVER GO OUT THERE
WITH ANYTHING LESS THAN A .30-30 ??? "

Apparently she did not want her boy eaten
by the local fauna.
David

I had to go and say something, didn't I?

I respect your 1st Amendment rights;
( as well as your 2nd )

See. I told you that OSD doesn't know anything about Canada.

Right again

I 'll admit THAT.

I believe that it is somewhere north of America
( except for Alaska );
that 's about all.

However,
I have been led to believe
that Montana is in AMERICA,
and from use of the name,
I surmised ( in error ? )
that u are there.
David

Maybe she should put her info in big, huge, large coloured type.

Under the avatar =

Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 15219
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

THE DANGER OF GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES

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