Bad Behavior boy 4 yrs old

Thanks for the quick reply.
I do have to admit one thing. When Kevin came to live with us, he was 2 and my daughter was almost 4 and 7. There were many times I put my daughter on the couch and Kevin on my lap because he didn't understand and I was "his mommy". But now I have such a hard time connecting with him because of his behavior and I have been the one dealing with it most of the time. And again this has been going on for almost 2 1/2 years. He is afraid of me because he knows I dont' make empty threats. If I tell him he has to have a good day for pizza, he won't get pizza. He knows enough to whisper to his dad, or say daddy can you come here? or walk totally around the house to get to dad for something.. keep in mind Kevin asked daddy for Dorito's on morning at 7:30 and daddy gave it to him. And there was me correcting daddy. Why did you give it to him? The response was "because he wanted them". CAN WE SAY FRUSTRATED!
However, Kevin's diet is very good. We do not allow alot of sweets in the house. And even he will turn down a piece of chocolate because he knows it will make holes in the teeth. ( He saw mine) He is a smart little boy and I know he can behave. I think he just wants things his way when it comes to daddy and his day care provider. I do love our son, but I don't have that maternal bond with him.
I try to spend time with him but feel bad when we sing songs on the way to school only to find out 10 minutes later he has hit someone.

0 Replies

You all need to get on the same page. Consistency, positive discipline (not sure if you saw my response of the bottom of the previous page as we might have been posting at the same time), and a clear understanding by everyone what is and is not acceptable behavior. Kevin needs to be Kev jr's dad, not his friend.

0 Replies

I already agreed in a general way, but I'll agree again specifically with the parental counselor advice. A lot of this sounds to my absolutely amateur ear (as in, don't take my word for it) that there may be some attachment issues going on. That's definitely something that I'd advise getting professional help with.

Is the psychologist you visited in the picture, at all? It seems like there's a lot more to this situation than just whether Kev is or isn't ADD or ADHD...

0 Replies

Another suggestion.... The book series, "Your * Year Old" by Ames and Ilg or Ames and Haber are terrific at giving you an idea of age appropriate development and issues. Four is a very 'outward' and agressive age. I first started reading this series when my oldest was 3.5 and I thought they had been observing my household when they wrote the book. I continued to read them right through the ages and found them very helpful on separating issues related to ages and stages from behavioral problems.

0 Replies

This is all very Twilight Zone, parallel universe for me. Been there. Done that. Have the scars to prove it.

One thing really stands out to me:

Quote:

His behavior has really hit a high note these past 3 weeks

I think this is a sign of progress so don't give up yet. I know you're both frustrated and tired, Little Kevin (LK) is too. (Sorry if I get the names wrong - I'm not quite sure who is who.) The fact that Husband and Wife are presenting a more unified front will make LK try every trick in the book. Divide and conquer. Even if it means dividing everyone from him.

Like for you, time out caused hysterics; taking away toys didn't matter because he didn't care about "stuff" at all; curtailing activities that were more than five minutes away - ha - he couldn't think past his fury to consider it.

The whole notion of cause = effect was lost on him.

I think soz's is right with the attachment issues (she's the one who first pointed it out to me, too). It isn't ADD or ADHD but RAD. Read up on RAD (I'll try to drag out some of my old links) and talk to a psychologist again.

You'll probably hear the same thing I did - wait until he's older, but you will get some good pointers about why traditional discipline won't work and some tips on what might work.

Everyone around here is doing their morning "NOW! NOW! NOW!" but I'll look today to see if I can find some things.....

0 Replies

Here's the thread where I started really discussing what was going on around here: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45440&highlight=separation+anxiety

0 Replies

I'm much the amateur here, but the bit in the piece JPB quoted regarding powerlessness and aggressive pushing biting behavior makes sense to me.
There is the additional set of controllers with preschool going on now too.

I find it, as a non parent, all very confusing, in that you want your child to listen when it's vital, as in 'don't run after that ball into traffic' at the same time you want to not make the child powerless... at the same time you want to give the basic comfort of rules and structure, at the same time you don't want a child to grow up obedient to all adults/superiors.
Anyway, that book about positive parenting sounded pretty interesting to me.

0 Replies

It sounds similar to the idea of Attachment Parenting, which is what we "do" (quote marks because while it's most similar to how we parent, we don't like follow a creed). Dr. William Sears is a good resource there. He has a website, www.askdrsears.com, and also a book called "The Discipline Book" that is really good, IMO.

Still, if there are attachment issues, all of this becomes a bit moot or at least less useful, as boomer said, so that might be the place to start (deciding whether RAD or a variant is likely, and if so, getting a professional opinion).

0 Replies

kev jr wrote:

He is afraid of me because he knows I dont' make empty threats. If I tell him he has to have a good day for pizza, he won't get pizza. He knows enough to whisper to his dad, or say daddy can you come here? or walk totally around the house to get to dad for something.. keep in mind Kevin asked daddy for Dorito's on morning at 7:30 and daddy gave it to him. And there was me correcting daddy. Why did you give it to him? The response was "because he wanted them". CAN WE SAY FRUSTRATED!

Can you expand on this a bit? If I wanted Dorito's for breakfast and was afraid to ask you for them, I'd get them from Dad too. How did this actually play out? Are either of the following close?

Scenerio 1: Kev jr goes up to Dad and whispers, "Dad, may I have some Doritos for breakfast?" Dad says ok, goes to the cupboard and gives the Doritios to Kev jr with a "just don't tell Mom" wink.

Scenerio 2: Kevin is munching on some Doritos and Kev jr sees him and asks for some. Dad says ok and gives him some out of the bag he's eating.

If it was closer to scenerio 1 then Kevin needs to get a clue as to what constitutes good breakfast foods and co-parenting and learn to say no. If it was closer to scenerio 2 then Doritos are perfectly acceptable breakfast items in your household and Kev jr has as much right to have them as Dad does. This is what I mean by everyone being on the same page. You and Kevin should figure out what goes and what doesn't and apply it to everyone in the household (within legal/moral boundries).

Pizza at the end of a good day is too far out there for a 4 year old, IMO. You don't have to use stars or prizes to make him feel good about his actions. Things like random hugs or "Hey, I just caught you being good!" work wonders. I'm sure having him fear you isn't your goal. Neither is having him grow up on a diet of Doritos for breakfast - unless it's a special breakfast where you're all having Doritos. There's nothing wrong with getting goofy and doing things out of character once in a while. They can be spontaneous or planned, but they should be discussed and agreed upon by both parents before involving the kids.

0 Replies

ossobuco wrote:

I'm much the amateur here, but the bit in the piece JPB quoted regarding powerlessness and aggressive pushing biting behavior makes sense to me.
There is the additional set of controllers with preschool going on now too.

I find it, as a non parent, all very confusing, in that you want your child to listen when it's vital, as in 'don't run after that ball into traffic' at the same time you want to not make the child powerless... at the same time you want to give the basic comfort of rules and structure, at the same time you don't want a child to grow up obedient to all adults/superiors.
Anyway, that book about positive parenting sounded pretty interesting to me.

Osso, the first web forum I ever joined was a parenting site for "spirited children". These are kids who are overly (fill in the blanks) anxious, sensitive, intense, persistent, perceptive, energetic (with an emphasis on overly). "Spirited" is a term coined by Mary Kurcinka because she didn't like the 'difficult' moniker used historically. Anyway, there was a child psychologist who frequented the site and kept telling us to stop trying to push our kids into being something they weren't and to let them have some control over their situation. Power struggles are oftentimes a result of one party insisting on being in charge. He was active on the Positive Parenting forum of the same web site and I started hanging out there more and more. It made a huge difference in how I interacted with K and let me see that we were both control freaks and we needed to find a middle ground. It made a huge difference in our household.

Soz, does AP recommend forced hugging and lap restraining or am I thinking of something else?

0 Replies

Gawd no. The basic idea is, the more attached a child is, the more content and independent. It's a very loving, snuggly, thoughtful kind of parenting philosophy, and "forced" is kind of anathema.

A sample from the askdrsears website, on discipline:

Quote:

DISCIPLINING BOTHERSOME BEHAVIOR: GENERAL TIPS

Infants and children do annoying things, so plan to spend time and energy correcting these behaviors in your child or at least modifying them to be less annoying. In handling any undesirable behavior in a child, consider these general strategies:

* Track the trigger. Get inside your child's mind and figure out why she is doing what she is doing. What sets her up for mischief? Is there a pattern to the misconduct? Is she tired, bored, hungry, overloaded, or in the wrong place at the wrong age and time (for example, a toddler in a department store at suppertime)? By discovering what's behind the behavior you'll be better able to avoid it.
* Reinforce the positive. Young children don't know a behavior is "good" or "bad" until you tell them. When they get a positive response, they are motivated to continue the behavior. When they repeatedly get a negative response, they drop it (unless the negative response is seen by them as positive, i.e., someone paid attention). This is why it's important to correct undesirable behaviors early, as soon as the child is old enough to behave appropriately. Otherwise, these behaviors become part of a child's way of acting and are much more difficult to change.
* Feed flowers, pick weeds. The conduct of a growing child is full of undesirable and desirable behaviors -- weeds and flowers. Given good nurturing, flowers grow so well you hardly notice the weeds. But often these flowers wilt at certain seasons and the weeds become more noticeable. If you just wait until that season is over, the weeds subside, and the flowers bloom again -- sometimes so beautifully that you forget the weeds are even there. Sometimes the weeds grow more quickly than the flowers, and you have to pull them out before they take over. So go the behaviors of a growing child. Part of disciplining a child is to weed out those undesirables that make a child unpleasant to live with so that the desirables flourish and make the child a joy to be around.[/b]

That's kind definitely general, details follow here:

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/t063900.asp

0 Replies

Maybe I'm just a littel testy today, so forgive me if I sound short. I think all of those parenting methods are wonderful and any one of them will work well if used consistantly. However, I think the Kev family is starting at a point when bad behavior, possibly coupled with attachment disorder, is entrenched. Especially since we know so little about this family, I am uncomfortable recommending that they experiment any further. I think it's time to get professional advice.

Sorry, that's how I feel.

0 Replies

The Dorito's
This is what happened when I found out about the Dorito's and I was not home, but on my way to work. Also this was about 6 months ago... I went to pick up Kevin Jr at daycare, he had orange stuff on his shirt which I originally thought was paint, his teacher said no.. he told me he had Dorito's this morning. I said there is no way dad would give them to you, did you take them? He said no dad gave them to me.. I thought he was lying.
So, I get on the phone with dad. "Kevin said you gave him Dorito's this morning." He said yes I did.. I said " you don't give a 4 year old Doritos at 7:30 in the morning. why did you give them to him? He said because he asked for them. I made some reply that if Kevin Jr wanted to play in traffic or something would you let him? I understand that I have an 11 and 7 I know about parenting, Kevin Sr is learning. He had his own dilussions that it was okay to let him have a juice box at 7 because he didnt' want to get out of bed and get him something else. I keep telling him parenting doesn't stop because you are sick, or tired or had a hard day. It doesn't stop because they went to bed. You are always a parent from the day the child is born. Here is another topic of issue here, If I take Kevin to school, it's bye have a nice day, be good "hug". Off he goes inside. When dad take's him.. it's no don't leave, "hang on the leg" Daddy no... "cry cry" etc. It's like the first day you drop them off and you want to stay and cry and reassure them.. but how many times do the teachers tell you there are fine 2 minutes after you leave! Kevin doesn't walk away from it, he has to stop and talk and console and give in and turn around 10 times before he gets to the car. I told him he needs to say his goodbye's at the door and go. Maybe turn around once and say have a great day.. see you after work.. whatever. It got to the point at one day care I was the only one who could drop him off because he made it such and issue with dad.

0 Replies

Swimpy thanks for the advise, anything is read and heard and taken into consideration. The reason Kevin Sr. posted on this website was because we needed impartial opinions. He didn't see what was going on because he didnt' want to. Or he heard it second hand. I took care of it all, and it has gotten to the point with working full time and a new baby, soccer practice, household duties that I can't do the discipline thing alone because Kevin Sr wants to be his buddy. In order for Sr to fully understand and step up to the plate and learn to be consistant with his son, I said I was done. Unless he started throwing things and then I stepped in it. I watched him for a week, let him handle it when he was home. He didn't understand and know he does and is starting to open his eyes, and the advice we have been receving has helped. By no means is my advice perfect but I tried to offer him advice when he was frustrated.
Thank you again.

0 Replies

I agree, Swimpy. I wanted to reply to JPB's question but I agree that it's a tangent and a distraction... sounds like professional advice would be very helpful to your family, Kev's mom.

0 Replies

I'm assuming this is Mrs. Kevin that I'm responding to. I understand the struggle you are going through, but my dear you need to own your part in this as well. It's not all dad's fault. Like I said before, we don't know you. The more you post the better feel we are getting about your family dynamic, however.

I'd like to have dad come back and post his honest view of you as a parent, since you've been straight forward about your views of him.

BTW, it would be very helpful to us if you didn't share the same account here.

0 Replies

Thanks again Swimpy, just to let you know that my husband and I are posting these together.

0 Replies

I hope you understand how confusing that is to us.

0 Replies

I don't think Kevin sees Mrs. K as a wicked stepmother. I think he sees her as a safe person who provides rules and limits; who takes charge of a situation rather than letting him flounder. You say he's a smart kid? Even a dumb kid knows that grownups are supposed to be in charge.

I also find it interesting that Kevin acts out for his father. This may well be because he wants his father's attention. Of course he'd rather have Father/Son, buddy-buddy bonding fun and games but if misbehavior is the only way to get Dad's attention Kevin is going to be a Super Brat.

Four kids. Two working adults. If I were stuck with all the parenting in this set-up, I'd be out the door.

Believe me, I know there are days when you don't "feel" like being involved in hands-on childraising. Unfortunately, "feelings" don't excuse you from what has to be done.

Isn't it interesting that Kevin is very clear about what he doesn't "feel" like doing--and that if he doesn't "feel" like behaving well, he doesn't?

Theory is all very well, but practically I'd recommend at least 30 minutes (more if possible) of father/son time every day. Play a game, read a book, set the table--do something together.

Make this daily half hour a time for praise--but not indulgence. Don't skip Private Parent Time for punishment--love goes on seven days a week, every week.

Good luck to you both--we're here if you need us.

0 Replies

Professional advice would definitely help you guys, but one big thing jumps out at me that you could change before you get that advice. You two are clearly not presenting a united front. You two will always have differences in parenting style, but make sure to discuss them out of LK's earshot. It will also help your husband if you don't make him feel like an idiot. I do understand your frustration with being the 85% parent, that seems to be the lot of many mothers, even in more equitable relationships. Kev sr. does need your help but he also needs you to believe in him -- and LK will pick up on this too. If he's making you out to be Cruella Deville and you're making him out to be Captain Idiot then LK isn't going to trust either of you. I know you two are not doing this consciously. Whatever LK's issues are, they won't be worsened by the two of you uniting as parents. If anything, it should make him feel more secure.

Good luck to the both of you. And what Swimpy said, it would be helpful if you could open your own account -- "kev's" mom is probably not taken.

0 Replies

Bad Behavior boy 4 yrs old

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know