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What If Israel Had Never Been Created?

 
 
Zippo
 
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:49 pm
Quote:
What If Israel Had Never Been Created?

"Imagine there's no countries...Nothing to live or die for...Imagine all the people living life in peace." - John Lennon

Thanks mostly to U.S. President Harry S. Truman and his "susceptibility to Zionist influence," Israel came into existence in 1948. (1) Humanity, and in particular, the Palestinians, have paid dearly for his decision. The land on which the Palestinians had been living for centuries, in peace, with a minority Jewish population, has been gradually transformed into an Apartheid state by the machinations of the Zionist Movement. That Apartheid state, in turn, is today dominated by Israel's Death-Mayhem-and- Occupation Machine. (2)

One wonders: What would the world look like today, if the state of Israel had not been created in 1948? Its improvident formation seems to have set in motion a chain of events, mostly negative, in the affairs of Mankind. In the movie, "Click," the lead character finds a "universal remote" that allows him to rewind to different parts of his life and to change what had happened. If I possessed such a "universal remote" and could stop President Truman from aiding and abetting the establishment of an Israeli state, then, it is my speculation, (a theory), that the following 25 propositions would probably be our present day reality. They are:

1. The U.S. would not have any enemies in the Islamic World.

2. There would be no Al-Qaeda Terrorist Network.

3. Gasoline would be selling for less than $1 a gallon.

4. There would have been no 9/11.

5. There would be no USA Patriot Law.

6. There would be no Homeland Security Agency.

7. The Israeli Lobby's "unmatched power" over the U.S.' foreign policy, for over four decades, would not had existed. (Its support for the Iraqi War was deemed by the experts to be "critical.") (3)

8. There would also not have been any Neocon ideologues; like Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol, Richard Perle, et al, to help, (along with other "Special Interests"), to push the U.S. into an illegal war with Iraq. (4)

9. Iran would not be the next target for U.S. aggression. (No Israel. No "A Clean Break" document. No Israeli Lobby. No Neocons. No need for the U.S. to attack Iran.) (5)

10. The Zionist fink, Jonathan Pollard, wouldn't be in prison for stealing U.S. military secrets and hawking them to Israel.

11. The three million-plus Palestinians, who were forcefully dispersed from their homeland, since 1948, by the Israeli Occupation Forces, (IOF), would, instead, be living happily there today, in a free and independent state of Palestine. There would be no Apartheid Wall, or as a corollary, a Hamas organization. (6)

12. Jerusalem would have a vibrant Christian population. (7)

13. Rachel Corrie of Olympia, WA, would be alive and well. (8)

14. The 2,544 Americans who have died in Iraq would be alive; and the 18,777, who have been seriously wounded there, would be fully participating in our Republic. U.S. taxpayers would have an additional $295 billion, (the cost of the war), in the treasury to use to serve the social needs of the people. Universal Health Care would be a real possibility and Social Security would not be in jeopardy. Iraq would be at peace. There would be no Gitmo Bay detention center, or an Abu Ghraib Prison, or a reason for the Bush-Cheney Gang to gut Habeas Corpus. No need for it to also employ torturers, or chemical weapons, or hold detainees without charges or trial. The Geneva Convention would be respected. The tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, who have died as a result of the war, would instead be alive today. (At the following footnote, see horrific photos of some of the Iraqi dead.) (9)

15. The battle to save our planet, its fragile ecosystem, its fast vanishing animal life and plants and to combat global warming, would be issue "No. 1." (10) Instead, we are perpetually bombarded with propaganda about defending "Israel's security."

16. If there was no Israel, then the "five dancing Israelis" on 9/11 wouldn't have been arrested. They were nailed after "celebrating" in NJ, while watching the Twin Towers collapsed. (11)

17. U.S. taxpayers would be $140 billion richer! This is the staggering amount they have shelled out over the last 58 years to support the ultra-greedy interests of the Zionist Cartel. (3)

18. The 34 Americans onboard the USS Liberty, who were slaughtered by the IOF, on June 8, 1967, would be alive today; and the 174 others who had suffered injuries that day would not have had to endure their horrific experiences. The shame the U.S. carries for not having quickly defended the men of the Liberty, and retaliated against the Israelis for their deliberate attack on the vessel, would have been avoided. (12)

19. On June 13, 2006, the IOF killed ten Palestinians, including three medical workers and two children, in the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, labeled the missile attack an example of "state terrorism." Only God knows how many Palestinians the Israelis have actually wasted since 1948; or exactly how many refugees it has created, or how many homes, a la Oliver Cromwell, the IOF have demolished. None of this would have been possible without the dubious "state of Israel." (13)

20. Paul Bremer, a coat holder for Henry "Iago" Kissinger, would have never been appointed Viceroy for an Occupied Iraq. No Israel. No Iraqi War. No Zionist Bremer as Viceroy of Iraq. (14)

21. One of the reasons the Warren Commission failed to properly investigate the murder of JFK was because of Arlen Specter (R-PA), a card carrying Zionist. He was then a "Special Counsel" to the Commission. He concocted the preposterous "Magic Bullet" theory, which shut down any real conspiracy-type probe. It is also interesting to note, that Jacob Rubenstein, aka, "Jack Ruby," Lee Harvey Oswald's murderer, had close ties to Meyer Lansky's National Crime Syndicate. I believe the answer to who really plotted JFK's killing, died with Oswald. In any event after JFK's death, Israel's nuclear weapons program, which he had opposed went ahead. U.S. aid to Israel also increased dramatically. (15)

22. There would have been no reason for a French Ambassador to refer to Israel as "that shitty little country." (16) In fact, the Jews of the world would have been liberated to fulfill their deepest spiritual quest, as embodied in their religion - Judaism. According to the highly respected Orthodox Rabbi, Dovid Yisroel Weiss, "Zionism has hijacked Judaism." The courageous Rabbi insists that, "Zionism creates anti-Semitism...And we know...Zionism is the root cause for the pain, suffering and bloodshed of the Jewish people...and, they, (the Zionists), are the greatest factory of anti-Semitism worldwide...Judaism and Zionism is not one and the same. They are diametrically opposite...We should not be mistaken one for the other. And, we shouldn't be responsible for the actions of what the Zionists do...Now, another of the problems that emanate actually from the Zionist Movement is the fact that they are encroaching upon the rights of the Palestinian people, the indigenous people, who are living there. And, this is terribly wrong. It is against every concept of the Torah...So, whatever they are doing is totally wrong!" (17)



23. Thousands of Israelis have died attempting to build a nation in a land, Palestine, which belonged to another people, the Palestinians. Their deaths would have been avoided. (18)

24. The widespread spying on Americans, without a court order, by operatives of the Bush-Cheney Gang, would have never happened. (No Israel. No 9/11. No spying on U.S. citizens.)

25. On April 4, 2003, a European Union (EU) poll named Israel as the "greatest threat to world peace." (19) On June 27, 2006, the IOF proved the EU right by reoccupying Gaza, savagely terrorizing the civilian population, blowing up their electric/water generating facilities, conducting a mass arrest of their elected officials, and also, without just cause, provoking the Syrians. In response to the repeated shelling by the IOF of Gaza, Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, wisecracked, "Nobody dies from being uncomfortable!" When he addressed a Joint Session of the U.S. Congress, on May 24, 2006, Olmert received 38 breaks of applause and 18 standing ovations from that entity of mostly lapdogs. This is also the same Israeli leader, who, paraphrasing George Orwell's "Animal Farm," said that he had a "deep regret" about the effects of some IOF's operations which had killed 14 innocent Palestinians in just nine days, but that the lives of Israeli citizens were "even more important."(20) Finally, if there wasn't a Zionist-created Israel, there also wouldn't be any need for a commentary like this one!

Americanchronicle


I thought a long time about whether to post this, and had it been any less carefully written, I would not have.

The reason I did finally link to it is that I have long ago independently come to the conclusion that Israel is a failure. Created supposedly as an independent state for the safety of the World's Jewish people, everything Israel's government has done makes the world MORE dangerous for Jewish people (and everyone else). Plus, having cost the US Taxpayers more than four times the entire cost of the Apollo Moon Program, Israel hardly qualifies as "Independent".
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:08 pm
I try not to live in the world of "what if". Given that you've concluded that the creation of Isreal as an independent state for Jewish people is a failure, what do you suggest for "what next" and how do you see it peacefully playing out?

I don't necessarily agree with your conclusion or with the 'facts' of the article, but what possible good do you see coming from what if thinking?
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:33 pm
Here we go:

The Palestinians want their own country.

There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians.

It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years.
Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern Invention. Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank Was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the Palestinians," weeping for Their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our Deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."

I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't.

They could 've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, Especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to Figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region Want: Israel.

They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where The real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel.

Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on G-d's Earth, and if you've ever been around G-d's Earth, you know that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about. The great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, By the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five Million Jews.
Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a Pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, Everyone will be pals.

Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the Numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it.

Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the Worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a Roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away.

However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of Losing moral weight.

We've already lost some. After September 11 our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the Countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we Did, and we tell them to show restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and East of the Jordan.

----

Dennis Miller ia a Christian and a TV entertainer who has a Show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:06 pm
woiyo's source wrote:
The Palestinians want their own country.

There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians.

It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years.
Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern Invention.

<snip>

Dennis Miller [is] a Christian and a TV entertainer who has a Show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO.


Dennis Miller is also a liar.

Wikipedia writes of Herodotus that: Herodotus has passed on to us a large amount of the information concerning part of the world that was current in his own day. Later, the same article writes: Written between 430 BCE and 424 BCE, The Histories were divided by later editors into nine books, named after the nine Muses (the 'Muse of History', Clio, represented the first book).

The following are excerpts from The Histories, by Herodotus of Halicarnassus, the entire text in English and Classical Greek can be read here.

Herodatus, [i]The Histories[/i], Book I, Section 105 wrote:
Thence they went on to invade Egypt; and when they were in Syria which is called Palestine, Psammetichos king of Egypt met them; and by gifts and entreaties he turned them from their purpose, so that they should not advance any further: and as they retreated, when they came to the city of Ascalon in Syria, most of the Scythians passed through without doing any damage, but a few of them who had stayed behind plundered the temple of Aphrodite Urania.


Book II, 104 wrote:
The Phenicians and the Syrians who dwell in Palestine confess themselves that they have learnt it from the Egyptians, and the Syrians about the river Thermodon and the river Parthenios, and the Macronians, who are their neighbours, say that they have learnt it lately from the Colchians.


Book II, 106 wrote:
The pillars which Sesostris of Egypt set up in the various countries are for the most part no longer to be seen extant; but in Syria Palestine I myself saw them existing with the inscription upon them which I have mentioned and the emblem.


Book III, 5 wrote:
Now by this way only is there a known entrance to Egypt: for from Phenicia to the borders of the city of Cadytis belongs to the Syrians who are called of Palestine, and from Cadytis, which is a city I suppose not much less than Sardis, from this city the trading stations on the sea- coast as far as the city of Ienysos belong to the king of Arabia, and then from Ienysos again the country belongs to the Syrians as far as the Serbonian lake, along the side of which Mount Casion extends towards the Sea.


Book III, 91 wrote:
From that division which begins with the city of Posideion, founded by Amphilochos the son of Amphiaraos on the borders of the Kilikians and the Syrians, and extends as far as Egypt, not including the territory of the Arabians (for this was free from payment), the amount was three hundred and fifty talents; and in this division are the whole of Phenicia and Syria which is called Palestine and Cyprus: this is the fifth division.


Book IV, 39 wrote:
Now in the line stretching to Phenicia from the land of the Persians the land is broad and the space abundant, but after Phenicia this peninsula goes by the shore of our Sea along Palestine, Syria, and Egypt, where it ends; and in it there are three nations only.


Book IV, 89 wrote:
These Phenicians dwelt in ancient time, as they themselves report, upon the Erythraian Sea, and thence they passed over and dwell in the country along the sea coast of Syria; and this part of Syria and all as far as Egypt is called Palestine.


Herodotus wrote more than 2,000 years ago. Your source is just making **** up.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:10 pm
"They could 've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, Especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to Figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region Want: Israel."

He is not wrong about this!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:11 pm
None of this should be construed as an endorsement on my part of what Zippo writes--this is a member about whom i am not even certain that he occupies the same cosmos as the rest of us.

Nevertheless, i don't like people who peddle lies (meaning Dennis Miller--Woiyo apparently doesn't know any better), and i like them less when they are self-proclaimed Christians who are violating their own cherished injunction against bearing false witness.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:13 pm
Any mention of Israel in there?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:14 pm
If you mean in The Histories, by Herodotus of Halicarnassus, i don't believe so. However, you are free to search for such a mention at the site which i linked, which has the complete text.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:17 pm
Setanta wrote:
None of this should be construed as an endorsement on my part of what Zippo writes--this is a member about whom i am not even certain that he occupies the same cosmos as the rest of us.

Nevertheless, i don't like people who peddle lies (meaning Dennis Miller--Woiyo apparently doesn't know any better), and i like them less when they are self-proclaimed Christians who are violating their own cherished injunction against bearing false witness.


Your arrogance is shining through again Set. Also, how does it feel to be duped into this argument by some a-hole (zippo) then when I post something humorous from a comedian, you spent a few hours plowing through some ancient text which proves NOTHING!

Certain statement from Dennis Miller are factual. Such as...

"It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about. The great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, By the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five Million Jews.
Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a Pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, Everyone will be pals. "

You're way too easy!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:21 pm
You're a fool if you think it took me hours to find this. I already knew where to find it--i took, tops, 15 minutes, and most of that time was spent copying and pasting. It took under a minute to find the source. While i was engaged in that exercise, i visited the bathroom, cooked and ate some frankfurters, and shared them with the little dogs.

And all to refute a self-proclaimed Chrisitian, who is also a mealy-mouthed liar, even if he attempts to cloak his hatred of Muslims in satire and so-called humor. (Sneers which smear entire ethnic groups aren't actually funny, but i don't expect you to understand that.)
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:23 pm
So, because the term "Palestine" is in this book makes Miller a liar? But, no mention of Israel... does that mean Israel did not exist then? Was it just Palestine?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:25 pm
By the way, Woiyo, you might want to look up the word "factual." The sneering opinions of Dennis Miller don't constitute fact.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:29 pm
McGentrix wrote:
So, because the term "Palestine" is in this book makes Miller a liar? But, no mention of Israel... does that mean Israel did not exist then? Was it just Palestine?


I have nowhere contended that there were not, in Palestine, a region that a backward tribe of Semites (the most common ethnic group in the middle east then, by the way: all Jews are Semites, but not all Semites are Jews) called Israel. However, it is more likely that they called it the Kingdom of Judah, or Judeah. But if you are worried about whether nor not Herodotus mentions Israel, i suggest you read the book, and settle your mind on the subject.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:40 pm
Maybe, if Israel didn't exist, America would have to create one.

So if Eastern European Jewish refugees hadn't been given the green light to take a piece of Palestine, Consumerist nations like the US/UK would probably have invested more heavily in arming other "allies" against the oil-producing nations independence from hegemony.

Maybe Lebabon would have been the West's "Israel."

In which case, America would still have enemies in some oil-producing nations. Perhaps different ones.

And barring Lebanon, perhaps they would have tried to put the Shah back in Iran - which might have triggered some truly seismic geopolitical shifts in the region as well.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:47 pm
The rightwingnuts around here come up with some really loopy versions of history--but you, Zippo, take the cake. I guess we can consider you a leftwingnut, but, as in the case of Italgato/Massagato/Mortkat/Bernard, i think you probably inhabit your little lunatic fringe group all by your lonesome . . .
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 02:51 pm
What if this thread had never been created?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 03:20 pm
'IF' is a very powerful weapon, do not underestimate it.

The Iraq war was fought on an 'IF', which had killed over 150,000 Iraqi civilians.

[IF] Saddam had stockpiles of WMD, he could have used it against America. Thats why we had to kill them.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 04:08 am
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/overview.asp

The Miller article is actually by someone else named Miller. Really, folks, please look at snopes before posting such things.

As for what would have happened if Israel would never have been created, why, of course the world would be sunshinier and brighter, and fluffy bunnies would tie our shoes while singing bluebirds ate sunflower seeds from our outstretched hands and our pets would speak to us telepathically, all while the rest of the Middle East continued to attack each other in endlessly creative and horrifying ways.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 06:53 am
Setanta wrote:
By the way, Woiyo, you might want to look up the word "factual." The sneering opinions of Dennis Miller don't constitute fact.


Stop your whining. You got duped and you feel foolish.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 07:10 am
No, i was not duped, i don't feel foolish, and the only one here whining is you--which is typical. You only see Miller's drivel as humorous because you share his hatred of Arabs.
0 Replies
 
 

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