Breastfeeding & weaning

I've done it as long as 3.5 years, and then I asked my daughter to stop it since she was in school and a big girl (not b/c of the real reason: sucking through my clothes at a work site to get my attention.) She did so without any problems. The rest of the time, I've let babies decide when to stop and there has been no usual time frame; the first one stopped when he started walking at around 11 months, the next got negative attention from relatives about it and stopped as he approached 3 years, the next stopped when I got p/g again, then the girl who I asked to stop. She'd nursed through my next pregnancy, and I was tandem nursing her and the next when I asked her to stop. The youngest boy stopped on his own 2 months after I asked his sister to stop. My youngest just made one year and she still nurses. Nursing is a very special time, and I wouldn't simply stop it unless there was a really good reason to do so. Jmo, fwiw.

Thanks Princesspupule.



I know what you mean there - M is at the age now where she happily, demandingly pulls at my shirts, sticks her hands inside the neckline or plain puts her mouth on me from the outside. It doesn't matter to me, but at times it embarrasses whoever I happen to be out with. At 15-mos., M's not at an age where I can explain or try reason. Besides, she acts that way only if she's hungry, or needs comforting (at times b/c she's in a new/strange environment), so I always find a spot where I can feed her. Recently though, after a work-related conference, I found myself sitting in the lobby of the hotel where all other staff & guests had stayed and the meetings were held. Since I was one of the lead staff in-charge of the conference, by the end of it, mine was a pretty recognized face with the hotel staff as well as the conference participants. That was probably the single time that I was uncomfortable sitting in a public place, feeding my baby (I had had to check out of my room by that time). We will be holding a similar conference 6 months from now, and that is one of the reasons why I am leaning towards starting the weaning process. Also, since my husband & I are both immigrants, we don't have much family here in the US. And none actually in the state where we live now. Luckily, this past conference my MIL was visiting, and she accompanied me on this 3 days trip to look after baby. Won't have that luxury 6 mos from now.

I guess all the logistics of work & baby & home can still be worked out....I still can't get a sense of what is most beneficial for the baby. Does she still get that many nutrients etc. from my milk? Is the fact that breastmilk still constitutes a big part of her diet, thus taking up tummy-space, preventing her from more of her solid feeds? She's a moody eater, has her good days & her bad days. I try to give her a lot of different foods, nutritious foods - but some days I have better luck than others. She doesn't drink too many fluids either - 4 oz of regular milk (mixed w. the fortified Pediasure) on a good day. Doesn't like milk, indifferent to juice, no to pedialyte...what have you. So breastmilk is pretty much *all* the fluid she gets. Then I wonder, if she wasn't getting breastmilk, maybe she'd drink more of the other liquids. *sigh* I don't know.

I should mention that recently we've become concerned about her weight. A couple months ago, she was in the reasonable 50th percentile. Then the next two crazy months happened - a trip to India in the peak of their summer, moving cross country etc.....and by the time we settled into life on the East coast, she dropped to the 5th percentile. So I'm trying to ramp up her calories....an extra pat of butter in everything, a little half & half mixed in her milk, ice cream every night after dinner, extra creamy potatoes....whatever way I can think of... Now that I've written it all out here (Thanks! A2K), I can see that this weight thing is the basic reason why I'm obsessing with weaning right now - depite the fact that I love doing it, and where I come from - India - you just do it as long as you & baby want it. Leaner breastmilk calories vs. the denser calories she could potentially get from solid foods & other liquids.

Sorry for the long post.....I find it easy to think through as I write here, and of course, I always get such great feedback. It's always much appreciated!

I'm pretty sure they get nutrition from breastmilk as long as there's milk coming out. Most breastfed babies tend toward being lean, so don't worry about her weight so much, just look for somewhat steady gain... Now, you said that wasn't happening, and that she is picky about what she eats and drinks... I'm wondering how she likes soup broth and sauces? They can be both filling and thirst quenching. You mentioned she likes ice cream, what about frozen yogurt or popsickles? I'd have whomever is her caregiver when you aren't around offer more calorie-rich liquids, see how that goes... Also have that caregiver offer food... My daughter eats more for her father than she does for me. She wants the breast as often as not when she has me feeding her. SHe also has times of the day when she is more receptive to food, and other times when she is less receptive to food. Mine also eats better when I offer her what the older kids are having. She wants to imitate them at this point. Can you borrow someone's toddler or kindergartener to model good drinking for her and see is she tries to copy? That might work, maybe. Good luck to you!

Aloha, PP

Thanks, Princesspupule. Soup broth & sauces are a good suggestion, I haven't tried them yet, will do that now. Will surf for some recipes, as I don't know how to make them. Do you have any that are a hit with your children, PP?

One of the hardest things about not being a stay-at-home-mom any more is the fact that I can't monitor her food. I try to leave a wide selection of food for her at her daycare, and while the caregiver/s there do a decent job, with so many other children they can only do so much. I can't expect them to focus solely on my child, much as I might like them to. I leave for her everyday an Indian stew-like thing with rice, lentils, corn, spinach, tofu & potatoes. Creamy mashed potatoes, a bowl of fresh fruit, chicken nuggets, yogurt (both drinkable and eat-with-spoon variety), and milk. And biscuits, some egg on occasion and toast. Sometimes, I give her mac & cheese, or some chicken/cheese ravioli etc. Generally the menu is consistent with occassional variations. I think I'm going to have to draw up a whole new menu for her, with a lot more variety - coz I'm thinking she's probably bored with her food. I'm not the world's best cook, or the most imaginative one either - so I just think of all the most nutritive things out there, and come up with a way of combining them into a pretty tasty edible form. I guess I have to become a lot more creative with her food now.

As to her weight gain....since finding out about her slide down the weight percentile scale - i've ramped up with the butter & cream etc. This afternoon we have a docs appointment - 15-mo well-baby & vaccinations (urgh!). I guess I'll find out how successful my efforts have been. It's like getting a report card from my school again - that's how anxious I'm feeling.

Hi there _Heatwave_,

First, great to have you back on A2K! I really enjoy your voice and way of thinking things through. Your second post here was really good, nice to see you come to some conclusions as you wrote.

The weight thing does seem to be its own issue. Sozlet was breastfed for a long time and was regularly at the 50th percentile for weight and 90th for height (has always taken after her dad, tall and skinny). As in, I don't think breastfed babies are always low-weight (though 50th percentile isn't that high, either).

I'm trying to remember what we did about fluids when she was that age. I think she was drinking a lot of water by then, not sure.

There is also stuff about making sure to nurse a certain amount of time -- foremilk, hindmilk, all of that. Basically, that there are totally different types of milk that come out at different points in nursing -- one minute in, 10 minutes in, whatever. As I remember (rusty), the foremilk is the most watery, and the hindmilk is the most nutritious. Could be, if she's just nipping, that she's getting a lot of foremilk and not much hindmilk.

Which at 15 months should be perfectly fine, she should be able to make it up from other sources. But if both of you enjoy nursing and she's a bit low-weight, that's something you could look into to purposely plump her up a bit.

There is a book by La Leche League called "The Womanly Art of Nursing"... I always cringe at the title but it was soooooooooo useful. They have a lot about extended breastfeeding (as it's called in the US past age 1 or so, even though the norm in most of the rest of the world is to breastfeed well past age 1). They have a website too:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/

Good luck at the doctor's today!

From the LLL website:

Thanks very much, Sozobe - for all your responses! I will read, ingest, see the doctor and come back to update. (Am running right now to complete a few projects so that I can leave early for the doc.)

BTW, you were on last week's Business Week mag... http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/06_39/B4002magazine.htm

Update on M's doctor visit last Thursday - went better than I had expected. Yay! Ears are clear, she's gained some weight (about .8 oz in two weeks), and that pushed her from the 5th to the 10th percentile. I guess somewhere between good & bad food days, she's getting enough calories. *Phew*
Doc said she was pleased with her growth/development, and wasn't worried on any score. Plus she said that M's working on her molars right now (my baby only has her four front teeth), and once they are out, I should expect to see a difference in her eating habits. (Which made good sense.) I just have to keep changing her menu, keep her interested in her food so that she eats.

Highlight of the weekend: M, who thus far had on a handful of occasions taken about 4 steps on her own, walked 13 steps - twice - yesterday. I can't remember ever being more thrilled! Can I just say here - I'm so completely .... just completely ....in love with my baby!

Aw, wonderful news all around! Thanks for the update.

The biting..OHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! the B I T I N G!!!!!!

M's working on her pre-molars and the next set of incisors...and I am her favorite teether. I have two bruised bite marks on my arm right now, and very sore breasts! Somebody please tell me that once the teeth erupt, this biting will go away. I'm not ready just yet to wean her (hard as the biting is to deal with), and of course, she's too little to be disciplined right now. (Last night, as she chomped down on one poor breat and inadvertantly, I yelped loud enough to wake the neighbors, the poor little baby was so startled that she started bawling!)

So....I think she's this close to cutting her next set of teeth....will she stop biting me after that??

I remember the biting vividly -- I wish I remembered more about how I handled it and when it went away!

One thing I remember sozlet doing though was laughing when she got a big reaction out of me, and then purposely doing it again. Oooohh...! It was one of the earliest discipline situations -- remove boob, say "no" firmly and evenly, no further reaction.

Biting seems to wax and wane based on the amount of teething our youngest is enduring.

Thanks, Sozobe & DrewDad.

I get that amused/naughty smile sometimes, Sozobe. "I know you yelped because you are playing with me, and not because I almost bit through your breast." *sigh* Only a mom would stick her boob right back in the kid's mouth. B- my husband, had the nerve to actually laugh one time coz she grinned so cutely after making me yell. I asked him to offer M his nipple - just for kicks, see how wonderful it feels. Hasn't laughed again since.

Yeah, I think M's teeth are really bothering her right now. Sometimes, when's she asleep, or feeding, or just lying next to me - she'll keep her hand on her ear for several minutes together. I know she doesn't have an ear infection - it's those back teeth.

And yes, I too do the 'remove breast, look in the eye & say firm no, then offer breast again after a little while.' The one thing I'm getting good at though, is predicting when it's going to be a bite versus a suck. I can tell from the way she hold her chin and curls her upper lip (weird, I know). So sometimes, I can stick my finger in between her teeth just in time. Not so lucky at other times.

Oh well. This too shall pass, I guess.

Yes, it does pass... The technique I used, besides removing the breast and saying, "no biting!" was to flick the baby on the cheek at the same instant s/he bites. That works if they think biting is some kind of game... That hasn't come up quite yet, but seems to be the next step I'll be taking w/Julia (who is 13 months.) A couple days ago she leaned over, I thought to kiss me on the cheek, but instead she bit and pulled away clamped down to my cheek. Ooh, did that hurt! And even though I screamed out in pain, even though she seemed to think it quite funny, I let her lean in to kiss me again (I had my hand ready to break the clamphold in case she pulled away w/a chunk of my flesh in her mouth again, though...) A couple times she's done that to flabby parts of me (sag is the price we older mothers pay for birthing babies,) hands, legs, arms recently, but those parts didn't hurt like it did on my cheek!

I guess in some way, I am thankful my son doesn't have teeth yet. He's almost 11 months. Although I do plan on weaning him soon.

M & I are both busy dealing with coughs & colds right now. The biting's waned for now, but we're both cranky because of the cough/cold. On M's part - she just wants to stay latched on ALL night....which is fine....except that her night begins at 7:30-8 PM. That's like - high noon - for me. All my chores around the house get done after she's tucked in for the night. These days....ha! Not only does she take ONE hour to actually fall asleep (poor little tiny baby), but also wakes up every 1/2 hour or so and wants mommy & booby for the next several minutes....

So now...I'm very ready to start weaning her off right now. Only, I have not the foggiest how to go about it. One co-worker said to me the other day: honey, you just gotta do it. And my response was: I just don't know how.

This is a baby who has slept every night, since the day she was born, with mommy & her booby in immediate proximity/access. I have *never* refused her the breast. I don't even know how to take the first step!! I don't know the first step!!!!

Oh - another thought - she still sleeps with us. I keep thinking....maybe I should move her to her own bed first & then wean her. Or maybe the other way around. I keep going round & round thinking about which route would lessen the trauma for her. Will she feel 'mommy doesn't love me anymore' if I first move her out of bed & then take the breast away from her? One thing on top of the other? On the hand, we're both so accustomed to feeding in bed, we practically both do it in our sleep. It's second nature by now.

I feel like mine is the MOST breast-dependent baby ever, though I'm sure that's not true. How did you gentle folk go about it? Really - practically speaking?

You could really tramatize your baby if you just cut them off and they are boob dependent.

Everything I've read from babycenter and babyfit (two resources I go to online) says to cut 1 feeding out at a time. Go at a pace your baby lets you. In fact, this past months e-newsletter was regarding this. I could probably find it.

You also don't want to go through what you did when your milk came in. The swollen, hard as a rock ta-tas. So gradually cutting out a feeding at a time helps both you and baby.

I have already cut out the lunch feeding. He gets formula instead. Sometimes he doesn't want it, and that's fine. He takes a few sips of water and is on his way.


BTW, my baby has slept with us pretty much since he was born despite me being against it. He slept in his crib at 4-7 months, but when we went on vacation for 2 weeks, he got in the cycle of sleeping with us again. So he is in a playpen next to my bed. I put extra blankets under it because I think he thinks it's too hard. He also sleeps with a blanket over him too now. I heard on the news last week that research now shows that baby are born with or without the ability to tell he brain "hey, I can't breath...I should cry" which causes some to die of SIDS. He's well past that stage, and I know he's able to pull it off.

I forgot to add that my son was still getting up two-three times a night for boob. About two weeks ago, I only let him have it at 12-1 a.m. and 4a.m.

Then last week, I cut out his 12 a.m. and now only give it to him at 3-4 a.m.

It was SO hard too because he cried for 2 hrs the first night. I continued to lay next to him and rub his bottom and back. SO HARD. Then the second night, it took one hour. Then 40 minutes. Then he slept through it.

Wish me luck because we will cut out the 4 a.m. in a few days!

It would be nice if this thread had some good breast pictures. Maybe some pictures of breasts both before and after breastfeeding? You know...for instructional purposes.