Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense?

Scipio, Welcome to A2K. However, I must challenge you on your statement, "The amount of pseudo-intellectualism here is amazing." You just made a general charge without telling us where this "pseudo-intellectualism" appears. Can you be so kind as to enlighten us? I'm still a learner. c.i.

Really, now, Sofia -- "like the rest of the non-libs?" -- isn't that a little bit of special pleading? Don't the non-libs give as good as they get?

As for your last statement, i doubt that the majority of members of the House are willing to admit of any proof of such a contention, short of the specter of a wholesale House-cleaning (pun intended) on the part of the voters. I don't think anyone could get the indictment.

Setanta--
The non-lib remark: I don't know if you've ever been an extreme minority in a group like this. You could just examine the interaction here with scipio...

How many people shared his view? How many argued with him/her? How many personal attacks against scipio? There was actually a negative conversation on the thread about this new member. (Isn't that supposed to be against our rules?) {I know--part of it was about the moniker--part of it wasn't.}

When you are part of the majority, these things can get past you. When you are the extreme minority, the board experience is entirely different.

I'm not complaining, because I've gotten used to it--but I do hate to see others wander in, get the barrage and leave.

I think we've all discovered a completely one-sided 'debate' is incredibly boring!

So, there is a big difference in being a non-lib here, and I wanted scipio to know he/she wasn't the only one.

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I do think some libs, if they were privy to reasonable info that Bush or someone in his admin had fabricated the war, they could make hay putting together an impeachment. They called for an investigation into what the admin knew about 911!! That was much more far-fetched to me than the investigation we're discussing.IMO.

Sofia has a point. It's not the individual behavior but collective total that makes a difference.

I didn't see it till I stepped in their shoes for a season.
I'm not saying that the libs attack more so than the right, just that in its sum it makes a difference.

Lets just say that the liberals and the conservatives resort to ad hominem at an equal rate.

Since the animosity will generally be directed at a member of the opposing ideology, being on the team with the least amount of players in the dodge ball game means you get beaned with the ball more so than the others.

What he said.

I'd just note that Scipio leaves himself wide open when he is among the first posters and about the first comment out of his mouth is how he is sickened by the other posters. You get out of situations what you put into them. I will also freely acknowledge that i have a deep-set prejudice against him in this thread--but i have judged him based on how i've seen him behave elsewhere in these fora. I hope that you will believe, Sofia, that i respect you. I don't have a problem in discussing such topics with you, or with George--and yet we often fail to agree. I post at other sites as well, i don't handle the vitriol well, and don't think my reaction unjustified. I would also point out that this is about the best-behaved site i've ever seen. Whereas i can see your point about being, or perceiving that you are, in a minority, makes life difficutl--yet i don't see you or George resorting to personal remarks as a result. It is the nastiness of those who disagree with me that elicits such a response from me. If they continue it, i simply ignore them thereafter. There is at least one notable example of this right now. I don't ignore you, or George, because you seem to be able to discuss these differences of opinion we have without the pettiness and childish remarks.

Welcome Scipio.




This site has more than your regular IP and email security systems. But another thing it has is IP privacy.

The general membership (and that includes mods) do not have access to IP data and they'd agree that they shouldn't.



Dunno if I can be said to be ameliorating myself in any way. And there are many people on both sides of the fence who always debate above the belt. People like fbaezer, nimh, timberlandko and steissd. Those are just a few of the people who I have never seen even come close to ad hominem.

I personally stoop moreso than themselves and others. As much as I try to avoid it I have little patience for niceties in message boards.

There are many people (I only mentioned a few because to go on would raise questions about who I'd left out and how many nice guys are on each team etc) who debate with a level of civility that I admire and you will find them out if you seek them and maintain a level of civility that you'd expect in return.

By that I mean that the real nice guys usually don't get down and dirty, I always get into arguments because as Setanta said, I'll argue anything (and switch sides).

You can find many here who will disagree with you without ever getting dirty with ya and what I'm trying to say is that if you think I'm the nicest you really need to stick around cause I think that there is not a single member of these boards who would name me the most civil person here. :-)

Stick around, remember that on almost any politics board you need thick skin.



I'd know the difference (after being on a board where name changes and cloning of accounts was problematic better systems than the vanilla phpbb security were added here) but wouldn't really acre (unless you were trying to impostor etc).

But I strongly suggest that you don't do this. The reason being the other forum I mention. It's the best way to go from mildly flamed to witch hunt.



No! <stomps feet>

You have to answer me on the other thread first.

Scipio - have you really gone?

If you haven't, I was rather looking forward to dissecting your cut and paste first post, in my own humble way, she said Heepishly - but 'tis no profit if you have gone AWOL.

Perhaps you could indicate if 'tis worth my while.

Which of the Scipios do you name yourself after by the way?

Setanta--
I didn't want you to think I was criticising your comments on this thread. I addressed my post to you, because you'd asked about my 'non-lib' remark. I have sincerely valued our interactions.

I don't feel categorized by you. You have the quality of hearing what someone is saying, rather than trying to smash them into their suspected stereotypical mold. No small feat. A very respectable trait. I could talk at length about your other considerable gifts, but everyone would get sick...
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*I just have this overwhelming sense of duty to the underdog, the outnumbered, the seemingly hoisted.... I didn't show up on this thread to preach {though, dammit, I think I did} or complain. Just wanted to throw a positive word to scipio, whether he/she was right or wrong.

No. 10 Downning.... WOW.

Bush Admin will be gone. we were so duped and LIED to. I am so ashamed of myself for believeing and being a proud American. I watched day in and day out the live feed from the "WAR" and cried when the prisoners were brought home safely. Dead Iraqi Civilians. Dead Iraqui Soldiers. Dead American Soldiers. Dead British Soldiers. Dead Journalists. No Osama Bin Laden ties. No WMD. Today is June 9, 2003. God help us.

To answer the forum question....yes. Impeach Bush and his ENTIRE administration.

Where is Starr? That guy tortured Slick Willie Clinton. I am somewhat disppointed with the Dems... where is their Starr? Opportunity knocks!

"Heepishly" . . .

Ah, the bunny is a rare treat . . .

I am no Clinton fan, but which is worse... lying about a blow job (no loss of life) or lying about WMD (loss of life in the thousands)?

GreenEyes, I don't think the conservatives see it that way. They did a "blow" job too with smart bombs! c.i.

True. Too bad the ones that give the orders aren't smart. The elevator never left the basement with this admin.

All of you that say Bush is lying about the WMD,may I call your attention to a few things?
From here...http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/03/sprj.irq.wmd.un.report/
We get this quote..."But the inspectors also made "little progress" in clearing up remaining questions concerning possible WMD programs, according to the latest report from UNMOVIC.

According to the report, released Monday, "The long list of proscribed items unaccounted for and as such resulting in unresolved disarmament issues was neither shortened by the inspections, nor by Iraqi declarations and documentation."

Also,from here...http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1999/08/990825-iraq-rpt.htm
we get this..."Panel. On discrepancies in the material balance of chemical munitions, Iraq continues its refusal to account for a falsely-reported expenditure of some 6,000 chemical munitions, for the disappearance of 550 artillery shells filled with mustard agent: - and for an inaccurate accounting of R-400 aerial CW bombs. Concerning VX, UNSCOM has stated that the amount of VX Iraq produced has yet to be verified and that Iraq has yet to admit to its weaponization of VX into missiles. Concerning the material balance of chemical weapons production equipment, the Commission stated that the disposition of eighteen shipping containers remains to be verified, it is known that two containers held nearly 200 pieces of glass-lined production equipment.

c. Biological Weapons:

The UNSCQM and Anorim reports note that in the biological weapons area, priority issues begin with Iraq's failure at a fundamental level to provide an accurate declaration of its BW program; Iraq has submitted several declarations all found to be incomplete. Iraq has not accounted for materials and items that may have been used or acquired for such a program. The result of these failures is that the scope of priority issues for disarmament covers all aspects of Iraq's BW program. Iraq retains the industrial capability and knowledge base to develop BW agents quickly."

There are many other UN reports that all state the same thing.Iraq DID have WMD,they did refuse to account for them as required by several UNSC resolutions,and they offered no proof that they ever destroyed them.
Now,those are the facts,why do so many people want to say that Bush is lying?
Even if WMD are not found,I KNOW from personal experience that Iraq did have them.

Hence the name MysteryMan??

Very nicely done Mystery Man.

Greeneyes,the name Mysteryman is my cb handle.I am an OTR truck driver,and I am in the Navy reserve.I am a combat corpsman with the Marines.
I was in the gulf for the first gulf war,and my platoon captured a warehouse full of Iraqi chemicals. That is why I can say I KNOW that Iraq had them.I also,know that Iraq was ready to use them this time,at least,they had the MOPP suits and the vaccines ready to use.
I was in this war also,at least until I lost 2 fingers and got my right shoulder shattered in Nasiriyah.
So yes,I feel I am qualified to speak on the subject.
But,You didnt address my main point.I posted links to two different sites,including a UN site,that spoke of the Iraqi's having WMD.Why did you not address the point I was making,instead of making snide comments about my name?