Bush Supporters' Aftermath Thread III

Re: Bush Supporters' Aftermath Thread III

McGentrix wrote:

xingu wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Could the liberals on A2K please not pollute this thread into an anti-Bush thread? I'd prefer not having to weed through the garbage to read a post in a thread topic I am interested in.

This is a BUSH SUPPORTER thread. If you do not support Bush, please feel free not to read or post here.

Typical conservative; they can't stand free speech.

Typical liberal; can't understand the written word.

That's right. It's called an open mind. Free will. Think for yourself.

If you need the written word to tell you what to do than that's your problem.

When I see a written word the first thing I say is "Why?" not "Yes sir".

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nimh

You've reached past what I was trying to point towards. I wasn't attempting a defence of Pelosi's forwarding of Murtha (I'll say something about that in a minute, and about "left wing media") but rather towards what vector we can reasonably predict in terms of republican PR moves.

This is all a consequence of my growing personal interest in how marketing and media control/manipulation can and does effectively influence how people understand the world. It is a sophisticated business with a long history and with, now, a lot of statistical information from which principles and "truths" can be drawn. I cannot recommend too highly "Edward Bernays, the Father of Spin". Bernays was a seminal figure in marketing/PR and in the adaptation of marketing to the political sphere and many of his projects, from as early as the 20s, are still taught today. He changed how people - broad sweeps of the population - think. Working for Pall Mall cigarettes, he managed to drastically increase the number of women who smoked (for example, purposefully busting through injuntions against women smoking on the street through utilizing the concept of women's rights and brillliantly promoting cigarettes as "torches of freedom"). He was, as it happens, Freud's nephew, and brought the emerging understandings of psychology into his campaigns.

As I've noted before, a fundamental aspect of this administration's marketing techniques has been to forward Bush (and his policies) as male (in the american notion of that) - resolute, steadfast, strong, protective, non-apologetic, warrior, fence-mending, cowboyboot-wearing, shirtsleeves rolled up, gun-loving, shoot first, etc. It's a pervasive meme they forward. Opponents are contrasted by suggestions of femininity - weak, confused, flighty, intellectual, elitist, wine-sipping, conciliatory (appeasing), bitchy, ineffectual (not violent enough), etc. It is pervasive and entirely predictable.

Media people, to the extent they miss this undercurrent, will forward the whole meme...Pelosi and Harman are in a "catfight", for example; or Pelosi's main concern - drapes.

oops...have to run...more in a bit

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Quote:

America's media bubble
By Lawrence Pintak | November 19, 2006

CAIRO

THE UNITED STATES no longer controls the script. That's a reality Democratic congressional leaders must digest as they seek to recast America's relationship with the world.

There used to be a time when the US media wrote the global narrative. The world saw itself through a largely American camera lens. No more. This week's launch of al-Jazeera International, the English speaking cousin to the channel the Bush administration loves to hate, is just the latest reminder of that.

US foreign policy is being reflected through a blinding array of prisms. Yet America continues to pursue an analogue communications strategy in a digital age.

Just look at the satellite landscape. Here in the Middle East, we can watch more than 300 channels, from Hezbollah's al-Manar (labeled a terrorist organization by the United States) to Fox News (which, to borrow Fox's favorite line, "some people say" is the moral equivalent). Turkey, India, Singapore -- wherever you look overseas, all-news satellite channels are de rigueur. Tri lingual France 24 launches in a few weeks to bring "French values" to global coverage. China has a channel. Russia Today will soon broadcast in Arabic. Latin America now has a continent-wide all-news channel. Africans are also talking about one. And then, of course, there's the Internet.

The perspective of these channels is different. So is the spin. The American election was a big story here in the Middle East, but cheering Democrats shared the screen with gut-wrenching images of blood-drenched Palestinian children torn to shreds by Israel tank shells as they lay asleep in their beds. More of those "birth pangs of a new Middle East" that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice talked about last summer. Americans may be talking change, but Arabs, watching those scenes repeat endlessly through the day, saw business as usual.

Journalistic bias? Like terrorism, it's in the eye of the beholder. After five years of Sturm and Drang from the Bush administration about the evils of the Arab media, American officials still don't really get it. The genie is out of the lamp. News people abroad -- whether Arabs, Irish, or Zimbabweans -- do see the world, and US policy, differently than their American counterparts. Their news organizations will report differently. It's a fact.

Even more important , every statement, every offhand comment is reported instantly. Live. 24/7. There is no place to hide. No such thing as Davos rules. Just ask the pope. Like politics, all policy is local. It's no longer just about how it plays in Peoria. There's also Peshawar and Pretoria.

American officials can no longer say one thing and do another. TV footage of babies killed with US ordinance has far more influence on perceptions of policy than all the feel-good speeches aimed at the heartland. Ditto images of the president in front of a huge cross at a gathering of evangelical groups. Who says it's not a Christian war on Islam?

Don't underestimate the audience. They are media-savvy. Take the Thai cleric who said the Saddam Hussein verdict was timed to affect US "domestic politics." And he's 2,000 miles from the Middle East. Imagine what Arabs were thinking.

Yet American officials who should know better still don't get it. A US public diplomacy official involved in communicating with the Muslim world recently asked me if there were Arab blogs. Only hundreds -- and they are changing the face of Arab politics. That's what happens when critical positions are seeded with True Believers instead of diplomatic pros.

The reality of the new digital world means that Americans may not like what they see. These channels will show the often yawning gap between words and deeds. "We are not there to be diplomatically correct," al-Jazeera chief Wadah Khanfar recently told me. "We are there to practice journalism."

Yes, some of the coverage -- whether on al-Jazeera or other channels -- will be biased, distorted, and sensational. Deal with it. American officials must engage, not demonize. They must find a way to communicate, not preach. But most of all, they must be aware that their every word and deed is being viewed real-time, often in a split screen showing the reality for folks at the receiving end of US policy.

As Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told Western broadcasters last week, "To have a lack of communication between cultures at a time of such technological development is very sad and contradictory." The talk was carried live on satellite TV. The question is, was anyone in Washington watching?

Lawrence Pintak is director of the Adham Center for Electronic Journalism at The American University in Cairo. His most recent book is "Reflections in a Bloodshot Lens: America, Islam & the War of Ideas."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/11/19/americas_media_bubble/

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blatham wrote:

I wasn't attempting a defence of Pelosi's forwarding of Murtha (I'll say something about that in a minute, and about "left wing media") but rather towards what vector we can reasonably predict in terms of republican PR moves.

I know that was the point you were making - thats the point you always make. :wink:

What I'm saying is that by solely honing in on that focus to explain events (such as, in this case, the widely expressed and mediatized doubts about Pelosi's capabilities, in response to the Murtha fiasco), you are at risk of overlooking alternative explanations. Explanations that, in this case for example, have a role that easily overrides the phenomenon you describe, however real that is too.

In this case, I really dont think someone who links the mediatized doubts over Pelosi after Murtha primarily to the "Republican PR moves" has a very strong case. Sure the Republican PR machine will use anything it can. But it is simply not the source of Pelosi's image problems here.

Some Democrats are well able to create their own problems, in the media or otherwise. Of course it's noteworthy that the conservative smear machine might well weigh in too, but the trap is to deduce everything primarily to that, as it might prevent one from observing and tackling real weaknesses on one's own side in time. In some cases (Swift Boat veterans) it's clear there is nothing much more to a story than the conservative media machine at work. But in others, that machine is merely the smiling third-party benefitor of problems wholly generated by Democrats or liberals themselves. It is extremely important for the left to keep being able to make those distinctions; otherwise, myopia looms.

I think I more or less know what you were going to say about "left wing media" as well - we've gone through this discussion a few times already - and when it comes to NYT, WaPo and definitely CNN, I agree. But note that the media I mentioned - TNR, Slate, Salon, SF Chronicle - these are not comparable with the mass media cable networks with their ratings-driven tendencies to populist sensationalism and pandering to common prejudice. They are more the kind of publications that are only read by Democratic/liberal insiders in the first place. Much of the sincere worries about Pelosi's style are located right there - no Rove needed.

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nimh

I must hand this one to you.

I took some time this morning to read through various discussions/commentary on the Pelosi/Murtha and Pelosi/Harman matters. I hadn't done that before partly out of lack of interest (attention elsewhere) and partly, and here you have me, out of some assumptions I hadn't investigated clearly enough.

tip of the hat to you.

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No prob :wink:

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http://media.salemwebnetwork.com/TownHall/Car/b/20061128RZ1AP-IraqStudy.jpg

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You'd imagine that the townhall published cartoonist would at the very least be paying attention to Tony Snow who, the week before last when asked about the study group's leaked advice (actually Baker had voiced it openly earlier) admitted that the administration itself has already been in contact with Syria and with Iran.

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But to his credit, Tony Snow rarely attaches a totally unrelated thought to the obvious message in a political cartoon.

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Please...please explicate what that "message" is.

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It certainly has nothing to do with leaks or Tony Snow for that matter. But I think it is rather clever satire illustrating the failure to communicate the real situation as it often exists.

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Here's another illustrating a gleaning from my e-mail yesterday.

http://media.salemwebnetwork.com/TownHall/Car/b/PN112906.jpg

The e-mail (author unknown)

"ANALYZE THE DEMOCRAT PROMISE.........

The Democrats new promise "A New Direction For America - Vote Democratic"

The stock market is at a new all-time high and America 's 401K's are back.
A new direction from there means, what?

Unemployment is at 25 year lows.
A new direction from there means, what?

Oil prices are plummeting.
A new direction from there means, what?

Taxes are at 20 year lows.
A new direction from there means, what?

Federal tax revenues are at all-time highs.
A new direction from there means, what?

The Federal deficit is down almost 50%, just as predicted over last year.
A new direction from there means. what?

Home valuations are up 200% over the past 3.5 years.
A new direction from there means, what?

Inflation is in check, hovering at 20 year lows.
A new direction from there means, what?

Not a single terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11/01.
A new direction from there means, what?

Osama bin Laden is living under a rock in a dark cave, having not surfaced in years, if he's alive at all, while 95% of Al Queda's top dogs are either dead or in custody, cooperating with US Intel.A new direction from there means, what?

Several major terrorist attacks already thwarted by US and British Intel, including the recent planned attack involving 10 Jumbo Jets being exploded in mid-air over major US cities in order to celebrate the anniversary of the 9/11/01 attacks.
A new direction from there means, what?

Just as President Bush foretold us on a number of occasions, Iraq was to be made "ground zero" for the war on terrorism -- and just as President Bush said they would, terrorist cells from all over the region are arriving from the shadows of their hiding places and flooding into Iraq to address our US Marines there rather than boarding planes and heading to the United States to wage war on us here.
A new direction from there means, what?

Now let me see, do we have this right? We can expect:

The economy to go South
Illegals to go North
Taxes to go Up
Employment to go Down
Terrorism to come In
Tax breaks to go Out
Social Security to go away
Health Care to go the same way gas prices have gone

But what the heck !

We can gain comfort by knowing that Nancy P, Hillory C, John K, Edward K, Howard D, Harry R and Obama et al have worked hard to create a comprehensive National Security Plan, Health Care Plan, Immigration Reform Plan, Gay Rights Plan, Same Sex Marriage Plan, Abortion On Demand Plan, Tolerance of Everyone and Everything Plan, How to Return all Troops to the U.S. in The Next Six Months Plan, A Get Tough Plan, adapted from the French Plan by the same name and a How Everyone Can Become as Wealthy as We Are Plan. And don't forget the No More Katrina Storm Plan.

No wonder everybody feels so good after the election."

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The Republican route map leads over the cliff.

The dollar is falling fast. Have you started to blame the Democrats for that yet?

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McTag wrote:

The Republican route map leads over the cliff.

The dollar is falling fast. Have you started to blame the Democrats for that yet?

Yeah the dollar has taken major tail spins at various times in US history, most notably when I was paying attention during the 1980's and for a time in the 1990's. Has declined against the Euro some 20+ percent I believe over the last several years and was gaining a bit recently until the most recent decline.

Each time the liberal media cites it as major economic disaster as well as citing anything else negative they can report while ignoring all the positive.

Well it is never major economic disaster. No national economy can continue in rapid growth indefnitely you know. There must be flow and ebb and ups and downs. The undergirding of the current U.S. economy is quite sound however as much as some might wish us to collapse so they can feel smug.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Yeah the dollar has taken major tail spins at various times in US history, most notably when I was paying attention during the 1980's and for a time in the 1990's. Has declined against the Euro some 20+ percent I believe over the last several years and was gaining a bit recently until the most recent decline.

Quote:

The dollar has continued its recent decline, falling to fresh 20-month lows against the euro as concerns grow about a US economic slowdown.
In early Wednesday afternoon trading, the dollar was hovering around $1.31 against the euro, after earlier falling as low as $1.32.

The dollar's continuing weakness came after US data showed a fall in both the price of goods and consumer confidence.
...
The yen was up against the dollar after official Japanese data showed an unexpected rise in Japan's industrial production.

It pushed the dollar down to 115.75 yen, from 116.15 yen overnight in the US.

Meanwhile, sterling was up to $1.9494 after earlier hitting $1.9545, its highest level against the dollar since December 2004.

In 2002, when the Euro was introduced, the $/ rate was about 1:0.82 - I still remember the various threads here (and before on Abuzz), after rising to more than 1.10: it will go down shortly again ...

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Fresh republican idea appears on horizon...

Quote:

In a trend more worrisome to the GOP, voters have grown skeptical that Republicans possess the fresh ideas needed to solve the country's problems. That is one reason many independent and Republican voters decided to take a chance on Democrats last month. "The message is, back to basics," Newhouse said.

Or, as Mehlman told the GOP governors, back to "good policy that makes good politics." He singled out an effort by outgoing Gov. Mitt Romney, another 2008 prospect, to expand health-care coverage to all Massachusetts residents. "That is the kind of innovation we need at the state level, and in Washington," Mehlman said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/30/AR2006113001270.html

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blatham wrote:

Fresh republican idea appears on horizon...

Quote:
In a trend more worrisome to the GOP, voters have grown skeptical that Republicans possess the fresh ideas needed to solve the country's problems. That is one reason many independent and Republican voters decided to take a chance on Democrats last month. "The message is, back to basics," Newhouse said.

Or, as Mehlman told the GOP governors, back to "good policy that makes good politics." He singled out an effort by outgoing Gov. Mitt Romney, another 2008 prospect, to expand health-care coverage to all Massachusetts residents. "That is the kind of innovation we need at the state level, and in Washington," Mehlman said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/30/AR2006113001270.html

Does this sound a little like Hillary's universal health care plan the conservative Republicans hated so much?

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If Mehlman actually said that, then he didn't learn a damn thing in the recent election.

And if true, I think it will be used to Mitt's disadvantage in a Presidential run. But then I think the recent election was a referendum on the GOP abandoning its basic Reagan conservatism. Plans to help the private sector provide affordable healthcare to all would fit with Reagan conservatism. The government providing it would not.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Plans to help the private sector provide affordable healthcare to all would fit with Reagan conservatism. The government providing it would not.

I'm curious. What kinds of things would help the private sector provide affordable healthcare to all?

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FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Plans to help the private sector provide affordable healthcare to all would fit with Reagan conservatism. The government providing it would not.

I'm curious. What kinds of things would help the private sector provide affordable healthcare to all?

Well, off the top of my head, it would help a lot if small businesses can join together in a single health plan to bring the rates down. Big plans are much more affordable than small plans.

Another means would be legally recognized civil unions that would allow those who choose not to marry or who cannot marry for form family units and thus share a family plan offering lower rates than a single plan can.

A huge help would be major tort reform limiting product liability on new and experimental drugs so that the cost of these would not need to be so high and also on malpractice suits that could bring down the cost of physician care, physical therapy, hospitilization etc. Free trade allowing other countries to complete in the pharamceutical market in the USA would also help toward that end. Cases of intentional gross negligence could be exempt from liability limits but these are extremely rare and the requirements of proof would of necessity need to be quite strict.

Loosening up the FDA requirements on experimental drugs so that diagnosed terminal patients could get them would be another thing I think that should happen.

There are no doubt other means, but this is what I could think of on short notice.

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Bush Supporters' Aftermath Thread III

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