Atheists - what drives you?

Thank you, real life, for posting a link to my autotheism thread. Now, the discerning reader can separate your off the wall propaganda from my actual position.
Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can tell I have never claimed to be 'the' god, just my own.

By the way, since you like to try to twist this bit into every thread you can wedge it in...............

Nevertheless, it is the same issue as raised in the Garden of Eden, namely: does God have the right to set standards for the human race?

. . . for if you are determined by any sort of circumstance, then you cannot be god unto yourself.

It is no surprise that you would try to twist my statement to justify your ridiculous error.

What has befuddled me most about your position, Doc, is not that you take it; it is, after all, a perfectly logical point of view. But what I can't understand is how you can say your decision was/is not the result of free will; for if you are determined by any sort of circumstance, then you cannot be god unto yourself.

real life wrote:

It is no surprise that you would try to twist my statement to justify your ridiculous error.

It is just absurd that you of all people would find fault with 'twisting statements'. Classic fault projection.

neologist wrote:

Nevertheless, it is the same issue as raised in the Garden of Eden, namely: does God have the right to set standards for the human race?

Assuming there is a god, and assuming that becaue of this god has the right to set standards for the human race, then there is still fact that the human race has the right to accept those standards or not.

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. . . for if you are determined by any sort of circumstance, then you cannot be god unto yourself.

This would apply to God as well, though. God is determined by the circumstance of omnipotence.

neologist wrote:

What has befuddled me most about your position, Doc, is not that you take it; it is, after all, a perfectly logical point of view. But what I can't understand is how you can say your decision was/is not the result of free will; for if you are determined by any sort of circumstance, then you cannot be god unto yourself.

The illusion of freewill is pragmatic, and it works for me. Just because I don't feel any magical X factor is required doesn't seem to undermine my position at all. Although I will grant you that a contradiction does seem evident on the surface, it is a contradiction born of dualistic thinking. I try to steer away from that sort of thing.

InfraBlue wrote:

Assuming there is a god, and assuming that becaue of this god has the right to set standards for the human race, then there is still fact that the human race has the right to accept those standards or not.

You are absolutely right. However, If there is a God, rejection of those standards may have consequences.

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. . . for if you are determined by any sort of circumstance, then you cannot be god unto yourself.

This would apply to God as well, though. God is determined by the circumstance of omnipotence.

That is by your definition of omnipotence, a word not found in the Bible. God describes himself by his name, Jehovah, which means 'He who causes to become'. This would imply that he can do whatever he durn well pleases. That is, he accepts no limitations or determinants.

What am I? I am nothing more than an arrangement of matter, am I not? To say that my existence has a purpose is to say the existence of a rock, a crystal, or water droplet has a purpose for its existence. The intellectual and emotional faculties I possess do not differentiate me from the rocks, for those faculties are also the result of matter. I cannot entertain the notion that I am fundamentally different from the rocks. As such, hypothetically I can only entertain the notions that the existence of everything has a purpose or nothing at all has a purpose. How am I to argue that a piece of dust floating in the empty abyss of space, millions of miles away from anything, has a purpose for its existence? The only tenable notion is that nothing has a purpose for its existence.

neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Assuming there is a god, and assuming that becaue of this god has the right to set standards for the human race, then there is still fact that the human race has the right to accept those standards or not.

You are absolutely right. However, If there is a God, rejection of those standards may have consequences.

Like what?

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. . . for if you are determined by any sort of circumstance, then you cannot be god unto yourself.

This would apply to God as well, though. God is determined by the circumstance of omnipotence.

That is by your definition of omnipotence, a word not found in the Bible. God describes himself by his name, Jehovah, which means 'He who causes to become'. This would imply that he can do whatever he durn well pleases. That is, he accepts no limitations or determinants.

But isn't 'he who causes to become' a determinant itself?
Also, you're reading something else into 'he who causes to become' when you define it as being "'he accepts no limitations or determinants," which sounds like a roundabout way of describing omnipotence.

I suppose if you were to supply some examples of the limitations necessitated or placed on an all powerful God having free will, it might help me to 'cobble up' some sort of answer.

Atheists - what drives you?

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Atheists - what drives you?

Ignorance......

neologist wrote:

I suppose if you were to supply some examples of the limitations necessitated or placed on an all powerful God having free will, it might help me to 'cobble up' some sort of answer.

Saying that a necessary being exists with absolute freedom, to whom absolutely everything is possible with regard to his own volition is like saying he doesn't exist. Even his own existence would be a limit unto himself. Even he creating himself would be a limit unto himself. For God to be absolutely all powerful and absolutely free with absolute volition, he could not possibly exist.

InfraBlue wrote:

neologist wrote:

I suppose if you were to supply some examples of the limitations necessitated or placed on an all powerful God having free will, it might help me to 'cobble up' some sort of answer.

Saying that a necessary being exists with absolute freedom, to whom absolutely everything is possible with regard to his own volition is like saying he doesn't exist. Even his own existence would be a limit unto himself. Even he creating himself would be a limit unto himself. For God to be absolutely all powerful and absolutely free with absolute volition, he could not possibly exist.

And the reason is. . . .?

megamanXplosion wrote:

What am I? I am nothing more than an arrangement of matter, am I not? To say that my existence has a purpose is to say the existence of a rock, a crystal, or water droplet has a purpose for its existence. The intellectual and emotional faculties I possess do not differentiate me from the rocks, for those faculties are also the result of matter. I cannot entertain the notion that I am fundamentally different from the rocks. As such, hypothetically I can only entertain the notions that the existence of everything has a purpose or nothing at all has a purpose. How am I to argue that a piece of dust floating in the empty abyss of space, millions of miles away from anything, has a purpose for its existence? The only tenable notion is that nothing has a purpose for its existence.

The hell, thats not going to help anyone, haha. You're like that guy at a funeral that just brings everyone's mood even lower. Haha.

You're just validating the thread starters feelings of being insignificant and that life has no point. What are you trying to accomplish, you're informing him that theres a right way to feel meaningless? Hahahaha.

First, life has a point/purpose, if it didn't or if you believe it doesn't, you wouldn't be on these forums. You wouldn't even be alive. Emotionally you wouldn't be able to bring your self to go to school, work or anything. You'd just lay down and die or involve your self in anti social behavior like crime. If life is meaningless, your actions are meaningless, therefore the consequences/benefits of your actions are meaningless. I won't even go through the spiritual damage believing in an existence of pointlessness because the physical damage is severe enough to prove my point.

Believing like this is horribly problematic and is destructive to your self and society.

neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

neologist wrote:

I suppose if you were to supply some examples of the limitations necessitated or placed on an all powerful God having free will, it might help me to 'cobble up' some sort of answer.

Saying that a necessary being exists with absolute freedom, to whom absolutely everything is possible with regard to his own volition is like saying he doesn't exist. Even his own existence would be a limit unto himself. Even he creating himself would be a limit unto himself. For God to be absolutely all powerful and absolutely free with absolute volition, he could not possibly exist.

And the reason is. . . .?

Existence itself would be a limit to the absolute possibility, and absolute freedom, and absolute volition of God .

And the reason is. . . ?