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The time of the lie

 
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:35 pm
well, some of us haven't been so fortunate to see it enough times to finish with the yucking. yuck yuck yuck
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 08:55 am
Bush may end up in history as the William Randolph Hearst of our time. Perhaps he should have been in the media instead of in politics. If he doesn't get reelected, he will still end up being one
of the talking heads. His Dad, however, rather avoids it.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 03:40 pm
This editorial appeared in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:

Dick Cheney is not a public relations man for the Bush administration, not a spinmeister nor a political operative. He's the vice president of the United States, and when he speaks in public, which he rarely does, he owes the American public the truth.

In his appearance on "Meet the Press" Sunday, Cheney fell woefully short of truth. On the subject of Iraq, the same can be said for President Bush, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz. But Cheney is the latest example of administration mendacity, and therefore a good place to start in holding the administration accountable. The list:

• Cheney repeated the mantra that the nation ignored the terrorism threat before Sept. 11. In fact, President Bill Clinton and his counterterrorism chief, Richard Clarke, took the threat very seriously, especially after the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000. By December, Clarke had prepared plans for a military operation to attack Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, go after terrorist financing and work with police officials around the world to take down the terrorist network.

Because Clinton was to leave office in a few weeks, he decided against handing Bush a war in progress as he worked to put a new administration together.

Instead, Clarke briefed national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Cheney and others. He emphasized that time was short and action was urgent. The Bush administration sat on the report for months and months. The first high-level discussion took place on Sept. 4, 2001, just a week before the attacks. The actions taken by the Bush administration following Sept. 11 closely parallel actions recommended in Clarke's nine-month-old plan. Who ignored the threat?

• Cheney said that "we don't know" if there is a connection between Iraq and the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. He's right only in the sense that "we don't know" if the sun will come up tomorrow. But all the evidence available says it will -- and that Iraq was not involved in Sept. 11.

Cheney offered stuff, but it wasn't evidence. He said that one of those involved in planning the attack, an Iraqi-American, had returned to Iraq after the attack and had been protected, perhaps even supported, by Saddam Hussein. That proves exactly nothing about Iraq's links to the attack itself.

Cheney also cited a supposed meeting in Prague between hijacker Mohamed Atta and a senior Iraqi intelligence officer -- but the FBI concluded that Atta was in Florida at the time of the supposed meeting. The CIA always doubted the story. And according to a New York Times article on Oct. 21, 2002, Czech President Vaclav Havel "quietly told the White House he has concluded that there is no evidence to confirm earlier reports" of such a meeting.

Moreover, the United States now has in custody the agent accused of meeting with Atta. Even though he must know how much he would benefit by simply saying, "Yes, I met Atta in Prague," there has been no announcement by the administration trumpeting that vindication of its belief in an Iraq-Sept. 11 link.

• In trying to make that link, Cheney baldly asserted that Iraq is the "geographic base" for those who struck the United States on Sept. 11. No, that would be Afghanistan.

• On weapons of mass destruction, Cheney made a number of statements that were misleading or simply false. For example, he said the United States knew Iraq had "500 tons of uranium." Well, yes, and so did the U.N. inspectors. What Cheney didn't say is that the uranium was low-grade waste from nuclear energy plants, and could not have been useful for weapons without sophisticated processing that Iraq was incapable of performing.

Cheney also said, "To suggest that there is no evidence [in Iraq] that [Saddam] had aspirations to acquire nuclear weapons, I don't think is valid." It's probably not valid; Saddam wanted nuclear weapons. But Cheney is changing the subject: The argument before the war wasn't Saddam's aspirations; it was Saddam's active program to build nuclear weapons.

Cheney also said "a gentleman" has come forward "with full designs for a process centrifuge system to enrich uranium and the key parts that you need to build such a system." That would be scientist Mahdi Obeidi, who had buried the centrifuge pieces in his back yard -- in 1991. Obeidi insisted that Iraq hadn't restarted its nuclear weapons program after the end of the first Gulf War. The centrifuge pieces might have signaled a potential future threat, but they actually disprove Cheney's prewar assertion that Iraq had, indeed, "reconstituted" its nuclear-weapons program.

Cheney also said he put great store in the ongoing search for Saddam's WMD program: "We've got a very good man now in charge of the operation, David Kay, who used to run UNSCOM [the U.N. inspection effort]." In fact, Kay did not run UNSCOM; for one year he was the chief inspector for the International Atomic Energy Agency's team in Iraq.

But it's funny Cheney should mention Kay. Last summer, the leader of the 1,400-person team searching for WMD expressed great confidence that they would find what they were looking for. He said he wouldn't publicize discoveries piecemeal but would submit a comprehensive report in mid-September. Apparently he has submitted the report to George Tenet at the CIA. The question now is whether it will ever be made public; several reports in the press have suggested that Kay has come up way short. In five months, 1,400 experts haven't found the WMD locations that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said before the war were well-known to the United States.

Cheney also said that an investigation by the British had "revalidated the British claim that Saddam was, in fact, trying to acquire uranium in Africa -- what was in the State of the Union speech." The British investigation did nothing of the kind. A parliamentary investigative committee said the documents on the uranium are being reinvestigated, but that, based on the existence of those documents, the Blair government made a "reasonable" assertion and had not tried to deliberately mislead the British people.

To explore every phony statement in the vice president's "Meet the Press" interview would take far more space than is available. This merely points out some of the most egregious examples. Opponents of the war are fond of saying that "Bush lied and our soldiers died." In fact, they'd have reason to assert that "Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz lied and our soldiers died." It's past time the principals behind this mismanaged war were called to account for their deliberate misstatements.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 04:02 pm
My concern is that the Righties have such a belief that facts aren't really facts and the "truths (sic)" that they are being told are true - that there is no reality in America. The ideology of the NeoCons is that regardless of the truth, put it out there and people will believe it. America has become (in the vast majority) a "non checker of facts (sic)" - which includes the press - and therefore, can be evilly manipulated by this Regime's marketing skills <sigh>
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 04:13 pm
As long as NASCAR, WWF and Porn are available, along with beer and country/metal music, most Americans couldn't seem to care less about world events. Mad
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 04:22 pm
The public has entered into a world of denial, where the real truth no longer matters. The defenders of Bush by and large seem sincere in their defense of him, and they simply don't want complex thought processes entering into it. I have heard some otherwise very intelligent people parrot the admin's line without the slightest qualm. In my work place I try to avoid politics with co workers. But, when they sometimes let their Bush fervor get the better of them I tell them what I think. In every case they turn away and try to not listen to me at all: got to follow the official line at whatever cost, it appears.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 04:41 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
The public has entered into a world of denial, where the real truth no longer matters. The defenders of Bush by and large seem sincere in their defense of him, and they simply don't want complex thought processes entering into it. I have heard some otherwise very intelligent people parrot the admin's line without the slightest qualm. In my work place I try to avoid politics with co workers. But, when they sometimes let their Bush fervor get the better of them I tell them what I think. In every case they turn away and try to not listen to me at all: got to follow the official line at whatever cost, it appears.


A cogent observation, edgar.

Despite the fact that none of them can see this forum (PUP, that is), take a look at the number of visitors to this site. It has exploded. Most of these people never will register, much less log in or post anything.

They're lurking, reading. And maybe they're not reading the political threads at all.

But I suspect there are several, quite a few, who are forming opinions for the first time. Coming of voting age for the first time.

Most younger voters I've encountered aren't much for war. Or killing. Or lying.

Don't waste time on the close-minded. More importantly, remind people who say they're turned off by politics, or who by your own simple observation are so busy trying to keep food on their family that they simply don't have time to pay attention to politics that they do matter, that they can make a difference, and that they have to vote in order to make it so.

Especially people of color, because the above describes a lot of them.

That's how we'll win, no matter how much money the Bushies raise and spend, no matter how sick and devious their lies become, no matter who the Democratic candidate ultimately turns out to be.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 04:47 pm
I got you, PDiddie. As I said, I try to avoid the topic on the job; it just ain't always possible.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 05:03 pm
It doesn't have to be work (for most, I suspect it can't be at work); it can be anywhere you encounter people talking. For some it would be around the dinner table, with friends, at a restaurant, at church, at the mall.

Some of my friends are right-wing freaks; I don't act obnoxious all the time with them but I don't give them a pass, either. Like I said up there, though, that's mostly like talking to the fencepost.

My wife is big on just casually dropping something like, "if Bush doesn't get us all killed" at the end of a completely casual conversation while standing in line at Walgreen's. I can't do that.

I can't talk politics with most of the clients I have because they're all hard-right.

Pick your spots, and pick your battles.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Sep, 2003 11:57 am
"The time of the lie"

Truth, conscious, setup for what Question

'No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with Sept 11,' Mr Bush
said on Wednesday after meeting lawmakers at the White House...............
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2003 08:29 pm
David Corn, in his new book, wrote:
George W. Bush is a liar. He has lied large and small, directly and by omission. His Iraq lies have loomed largest. In the run-up to the invasion, Bush based his case for war on a variety of unfounded claims that extended far beyond his controversial uranium-from-Niger assertion. He maintained that Saddam Hussein possessed "a massive stockpile" of unconventional weapons and was directly "dealing" with Al Qaeda--two suppositions unsupported then (or now) by the available evidence. He said the International Atomic Energy Agency had produced a report in 1998 noting that Iraq was six months from developing a nuclear weapon; no such report existed (and the IAEA had actually reported then that there was no indication Iraq had the ability to produce weapons-grade material). Bush asserted that Iraq was "harboring a terrorist network, headed by a senior Al Qaeda terrorist planner"; US intelligence officials told reporters this terrorist was operating ouside of Al Qaeda control. And two days before launching the war, Bush said, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." Yet former deputy CIA director Richard Kerr, who is conducting a review of the prewar intelligence, has said that intelligence was full of qualifiers and caveats, and based on circumstantial and inferential evidence. That is, it was not no-doubt stuff. And after the major fighting was done, Bush declared, "We found the weapons of mass destruction." But he could only point to two tractor-trailers that the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency had concluded were mobile bioweapons labs. Other experts--including the DIA's own engineering experts--disagreed with this finding.


There is so much here I can't possibly excerpt it all. For Pete's sake, go read it.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Sep, 2003 03:55 pm
Quote:
Sanctions exist -- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction ... And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.


Colin Powell
Press Briefing in Cairo
February 24, 2001


Quote:
If Iraq had disarmed itself, gotten rid of its weapons of mass destruction over the past 12 years, or over the last several months since (UN Resolution) 1441 was enacted, we would not be facing the crisis that we now have before us.


Colin Powell
Interview with Radio France International
February 28, 2003


Quote:
A lot changed between February 2001 (and the invasion), but I don't find anything inconsistent between what I said then and what I've said all along.


Colin Powell
Press Remarks
September 25, 2003
0 Replies
 
 

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