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The time of the lie

 
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 07:02 pm
I am bewildered that people do still support this admin. What would it take to open their eyes?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 07:15 pm
The Republicans have made it all into a bizarre circus, with the public apparently dazzled by the high wire walking, sleight of hand, etc. They have somehow got the people convinced that the Democrats are but a sideshow, with a few clowns and knock over the bottles games.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2003 08:03 am
You can't stop calling them on it.

Just keep repeating it until it sinks in:

Bush Lied. Thousands Died.

Quote:
If it's true that words come back to haunt you, it must also be true -- like the late, great "Comical Ari" Fleischer once warned -- folks need to "watch what they say..."

The entire political apparatus is jones'n out on Bush's January 2003 State of the Union speech, or at least the 16 words where he said, "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant qualities of uranium from Africa." They're shocked -- shocked -- to discover that here, six months, 251 dead American soldiers and counting, and over 6,000 dead Iraqi civilians later, their president may have -- just may have -- unintentionally created this chaos by telling a...well, he may have embossed the tru...or maybe he just mis-spoke because he was misled...yeah, that's it -- Bush mis-spoke -- and besides, even if it was, well you know, that other thing -- it was only a tiny white one...

Lie. The word is Lie.

Because they lied. They lied in spite of being unable to look the American people in the eye -- in spite of the millions and millions of individuals walking shoulder-to-shoulder across the international landscape crying out to them for truth, restraint and sanity -- in spite of knowing beforehand that Iraq and Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with either 9-11or Bush's war on terror. Spiteful lies, far easier for them to tell because neither their blood nor that of their sons and daughters would stain the desert sand.


Playing the Word Game
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 03:46 pm
One can't expect rhyme nor reason from a Mobocracy. Right now they're mobing Grey Davis who's not my favorite politician but doesn't deserve to be impeached (recalled, same thing).

The sad thing is they're aren't particularly good at the word game, especially every time Dubya open his mouth. The Republicans would rather see a dumb nation -- as soon as the nation is full of educated people, they will cease to exist.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2003 03:04 pm
Maybe this really belongs here:

The Nation

Posted August 14, 2003
STOP THE PRESSES by ERIC ALTERMAN
Posted August 14, 2003

Patriotic Gore

The words "Al Gore" are properly understood to be synonymous with the words "cautious politician." And yet speaking to MoveOn.org at New York University recently, Gore gave voice to some plain-spoken truths that were just about unsayable in the mass media until he said them. Gore accused George W. Bush of undertaking "a systematic effort to manipulate facts in service to a totalistic ideology that is felt to be more important than the mandates of basic honesty." The President, he said, was "pursuing policies chosen in advance of the facts--policies designed to benefit friends and supporters--and [using] tactics that deprived the American people of any opportunity to effectively subject his arguments to the kind of informed scrutiny that is essential in our system of checks and balances." To top it all off, Gore nervily quoted George Akerlof, winner of the 2001 Nobel Prize for Economics, who told Der Spiegel, "This is the worst government the US has ever had in its more than 200 years of history."

The reaction was as swift as it was predictable. Recalling the hysterics of late Washington Post columnist Michael Kelly, who termed Gore's September 2002 antiwar speech to be "dishonest, cheap, low...hollow...wretched...vile...contemptible...a lie...a disgrace...equal parts mendacity, viciousness and smarm," Post editors accused Gore of leading his party "off a cliff" and "validat[ing] just about every conspiratorial theory of the antiwar left."

Yet on the very same day that these good citizens of Quinn-Broderville were fulminating about Al Gore, Post reporters Barton Gellman and Walter Pincus published a 5,331-word report detailing how Bush and his aides "made allegations depicting Iraq's nuclear weapons program as more active, more certain and more imminent in its threat than the data they had would support...withheld evidence that did not conform to their views," and "seldom corrected misstatements."

Ignoring the facts on page one of its own newspaper to launch ideologically inspired attacks on the truth is a time-honored tactic for the wingnuts who run the Wall Street Journal editorial page, but it is dismaying to see the same phenomenon taking hold at the Post--an editorial page that was considered "liberal" so recently that The American Prospect's new editor, Michael Tomasky, mistakenly included it as such in his recent study of the relative ferocity of conservatives versus liberals.

It's worth noting, by contrast, that in Britain, Tony Blair is on the ropes for offenses against democracy that--while significant--pale in comparison to Bush's. Blair faces an aggressive, independent-minded media whose members consider it their job, in the words of the BBC's head of newsgathering, Adrian Van Klaveren, "to question governments...to hold governments to account.... This is not passive journalism. This is about trying to get information which others don't want us to know."

As Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger says, "The BBC is easily the most trusted institution in the country, and you feel like the government and the right-wing media almost want to bring it down." Indeed, the conservative campaign against the BBC is quite similar to that against the New York Times, with the difference that it has been more energetically earned. Bush is still riding high in this country in part because we lack institutions like the BBC and the Guardian--that is, a press that is not shy about inviting right-wing opprobrium as it carries out its mission of holding the government accountable for its actions.

Here, the mainstream media almost always allow the Bush Administration to lie without consequence. It's not that lies go unnoticed; it's just that it's considered bad manners to worry about so silly an issue--and never more so than when those lies are deployed to justify a needless war. Even frequent Bush apologist Howard "Conflict of Interest" Kurtz could not help noticing that when Bush said, "Did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is: absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in," his answer bore "no relation to reality." He asked his guest on CNN's Reliable Sources, "Why has that not been more made of by the press?" The Post's Dana Milbank, who has established a deserved reputation as the toughest of all the regular White House correspondents, answers, "I think what people basically decided was this is just the President being the President. Occasionally he plays the wrong track and something comes out quite wrong. He is under a great deal of pressure."

There you have it. An American President is said to be "under a great deal of pressure"--unlike, say, Bill Clinton--and so the Washington press corps decide that "people" prefer that he not be held accountable even for his own deceitful words. No wonder that, as Rusbridger notes, the Guardian website is now serving the news needs of 2 million US readers per month, while BBC viewership here is also skyrocketing. These people are saying, "We can't get this kind of thing in America," says Rusbridger. He was here for a conference on war reporting the newspaper organized together with New York magazine and the New School's World Policy Institute. I asked Rusbridger if he happened to witness the famous Bush press conference where White House reporters happily acted as props for what was clearly a Karl Rove propaganda exercise. He said he found it "appalling," actually cringed watching it and wondered "how any information ever gets out at all."
It's not as if the information we need to judge our government is kept from us. The reporters are, for the most part, doing their jobs. But as the Guardian's New York correspondent, Gary Younge, pointed out to the New School audience, "In the political context in America, there weren't that many takers for certain kinds of information." Indeed, you can learn what liars the members of the Bush Administration are on the front page of the Washington Post. But if you say so aloud, be prepared to be smeared as "paranoid" by the paper's editors.

The Guardian's announcement that it's exploring the US market for a possible launch couldn't come at a more propitious moment. Here's hoping they come over and deliver to our media the kick in the arse they have worked so hard to deserve.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030901&s=alterman
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 08:57 am
There are some who feel like -- that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring them on. We've got the force necessary to deal with the security situation.
George W. Bush
Press Remarks
July 2, 2003


I like to remind people that a free Iraq will no longer serve as a haven for terrorists or as a place for terrorists to get money or arms.
George W. Bush
Press Remarks
August 19, 2003, 6:40 AM


Today in Baghdad terrorists turned their violence against the United Nations.
George W. Bush
Press Remarks
August 19, 2003, 11:05 AM


Iraq is turning out to be a continuing battle in the war on terrorism.
George W. Bush
Press Remarks
August 22, 2003


http://billmon.org/archives/fire.jpg

A fire burns outside U.N. headquaters in Baghdad, August 19, 2003
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 02:30 pm
"Iraq is turning out to be a continuing battle in the war on terrorism. "

DuH :sad:
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 04:33 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
Embarrassed It was me, all right. Thanks.


PDiddie
One of my recurrent themes is, the US was very similar to its current state before the Great Depression. The one difference, of course, being the loose cannon that is the G Bush administration. It took a Great Depression and WW II to bring Americans to a state in which they recognized the value of a New Deal. I don't know what can shake the public of today from its torpor. I truly am at a loss.

Blythe-sama, you just won the brass (some aluminium content) ring! The similarities between the current situation in America and the situation in post WWI America are so close that I am constantly surprised more people haven't commented on it! One of my old professors at U of Md., who does the inter war period in the US, used to comment on this all the time. Smile From the air of paranoia, to the anti-immigration feeling, to John Walker Lindh and Richard Reed as the new Saccho and Vannizetti.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 04:37 pm
Damn tootin' it is. Please continue Hobit and Edgar. Very interesting.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2003 06:15 pm
This may not be a lie, but it is certainly exceptionally poor timing:

Quote:
America's economy today is showing signs of promise. We're emerging from a period of national challenge and economic uncertainty. The hard work of our people and the good policies of our government are paying off.

George W. Bush
Speech in Kansas City
September 4, 2003


----------------------------

Quote:
U.S. employers cut jobs in August at the fastest pace since March, the government said in an unexpectedly grim report on Friday that showed Americans are struggling to find jobs even as other areas of the economy recover. The number of workers on U.S. payrolls outside the farm sector slid 93,000 in August, the seventh consecutive month of declines, after dropping 49,000 in July. The number was far worse than the increase of 12,000 expected by economists.


Reuters
Employers Slash Jobs, Bush Downplays Data
September 5, 2003
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2003 07:56 pm
"Wir mussen Lebesraum, haben. Nichts fur die Deutscher nation, (pause, soleful gaze)Aber fur die Deutscher VOLK! Der Sudentenland ist nur die Vaterland auf die Deutsche Menschen, und alle Menschen musste mit Mich, und mit ihre Brudren fur die DeutscherNationen Krieg."
Something Bushy Poo-II probably salivates over. Sad
(yes, my German composition skills are at a level that would make a third grader sad!)
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2003 06:06 am
In a number of other threads (outside this closed forum) there are claims that the unemployment rate is relatively unimportant.

Taking away for a moment the cruelty inherent in that claim and treating it simply as an economic theory, what is there to support it?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2003 07:38 am
i offer the opinion that unemployed persons may not be able to afford to vote, you know just putting food on the table is hard enough and without their vote they really are unimportant (kind like living in florida)
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2003 07:47 am
Tartarin wrote:
In a number of other threads (outside this closed forum) there are claims that the unemployment rate is relatively unimportant.

Taking away for a moment the cruelty inherent in that claim and treating it simply as an economic theory, what is there to support it?


Nothing.

Conservatives are mute about record spending deficits and the growth of the federal government.

They display arrogant disregard for the environment, for world opinion, in fact for anything that goes against their precious President.

Why would the rationalization of soaring unemployment by simply dismissing it as irrelevant be any different?

It certainly wouldn't be out of character.

If you needed further verification of the fallacy of compassionate conservatism, you just got it.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2003 08:06 am
William Blum is coming out with a book in October about our "killer" foreign policy -- covering all the territory from Guatemala to Chile to Cuba to... etc. etc.

Here's a blurb about Chile -- I had personal connections to the horrendous American intervention in Chile and it has remained an open wound...

Chile, 1964-73:
Salvador Allende was the worst possible scenario for a Washington imperialist. He could imagine only one thing worse than a Marxist in power-an elected Marxist in power, who honored the constitution, and became increasingly popular. This shook the very foundation stones on which the anti-Communist tower was built: the doctrine, painstakingly cultivated for decades, that "communists" can take power only through force and deception, that they can retain that power only through terrorizing and brainwashing the population.* After sabotaging Allende's electoral endeavor in 1964, and failing to do so in 1970, despite their best efforts, the CIA and the rest of the American foreign policy machine left no stone unturned in their attempt to destabilize the Allende government over the next three years, paying particular attention to building up military hostility. Finally, in September 1973, the military overthrew the government, Allende dying in the process.
They closed the country to the outside world for a week, while the tanks rolled and the soldiers broke down doors; the stadiums rang with the sounds of execution and the bodies piled up along the streets and floated in the river; the torture centers opened for business; the subversive books were thrown into bonfires; soldiers slit the trouser legs of women, shouting that "In Chile women wear dresses!"; the poor returned to their natural state; and the men of the world in Washington and in the halls of international finance opened up their check- books. In the end, more than 3,000 had been executed, thousands more tortured or disappeared.

*This is based on a quote which has emerged from tapes and Nixon's papers and other materials from that era.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2003 09:17 am
PDiddie -- Here's a lovely link about an unlovely man, Bill O'Reilly:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087706/
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 04:28 pm
Speaking of lies, here they are in the opposite form, truths unmentioned:

Some good talking points:



Subject: A President's Resume'

The White House, USA

GEORGE W. BUSH

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I attacked and took over two countries.

I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.

I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history (not
easy!).

I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in
any 12 month period.

I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the
stock market.

I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

I am the first president in US history to enter office with a
criminal record.

In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on
vacation by any president in US history (tough to beat my dad's, but
I did).

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided
over the worst security failure in US history.

I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any
president in US history.

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their
job.

I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any
other president in US history.

I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a
12-month period.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than
any president in US history.

I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president,
since the advent of TV.

I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution
than any other US president in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused
to intervene when corruption was revealed.

I cut health care benefits for war veterans.

I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously
take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the
record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US
history.

I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any
in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US
history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil
tanker named after her).

I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the
Union simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy.

I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any
market in any country in the history of the world.

I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and
military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of
the United Nations and the vast majority of the international community.

I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the
history of the United States, called the "Bureau of Homeland
Security"(only one letter away from BS).

I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending
increases, more than any other president in US history (Ronnie was tough to
beat, but I did it!!).

I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations
remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.

I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations
remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.

I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of
congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US
history.

I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

I withdrew from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by
default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations
election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.

I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate
campaign donations.

The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of
my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy
frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron >Corporation).

I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US
history.

I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under
attack (and then lied, saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.

I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11,and in less than a
year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the
biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the
people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world
peace
and stability.

I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.

I set the all-time record for the number of administration appointees
who violated US law by not selling their huge investments in corporations
bidding for gov't contracts.

I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than
any other president in US history.

In a little over two years, I have created the most divided country in
decades, possibly the most divided that the US has been since the Civil War.

I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less
than two years turned every single economic category heading straight
down.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas
driving record has been erased and is not available).

I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during
time of war.

I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug
use.

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away
to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or
bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served
on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP)attended regarding
public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
review.

PERSONAL REFERENCES:

For personal references, please speak to my dad or Uncle James Baker
(They can be reached in their offices at the Carlyle Group where they are
helping to divide up the spoils of the US-Iraq war and plan for the
next one).

(Note: this information should be useful to voters in the 2004
election.

Circulate to as many citizens you think would be helped to be
reminded about his record.)



The White House, USA
GEORGE W. BUSH
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 04:44 pm
Whew! Great one, Lola!

Now, what does that make of the people who voted for him, hired him? Should they remain in our corporation, or do we need a new personnel department?
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 04:48 pm
we definitely need a new Board of Directors......

Let's all talk it up....
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 05:04 pm
Y'know...the first twenty times I saw that list I yukked it up. Now I just scroll through it.
0 Replies
 
 

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