For Neologist, and anyone else affiliated with watchtower.

Neo. Have you considered what comes forth in Leviticus 17:15! and why Sauls men not was killed when they eat all the blood in the slaughtered animals and why Davids men not was killed when they eat the bred and Jesus disciples when they worked at the sabbath, everything was connectetd to death penalty and was gross sins they have committed, but did Jehovah kill them or promised them to end up in Gehenna or a burning hell?

Why aren't you listen to the whole Bible and only to the parts what fits to the Watchower teachings, The crusaders and the inkvisator was surely convinced that they was doing the will of God, but was also misused and mislead by Mind Control and indoctrination processes to make them belive they was speaking on behalf of God!

I don't think anyone else outside The Watchtower Society will dictate you what to do, it is a personal matter, not a religious Organization which have shown in their hole history that they haven't been able to make an intelligent and proper decissions in question of vaccinations, organtransplantations, the Blood and 1914,25 and 75!

You have to make choices in accordance to your conscious, but be aware that it might be that your conscience has been educated, like Jim Jones followers. You have to listen to advice from your doctor(s) you believe in and from proper and relevant information, opposite what the Society does, where they threaten their followers, that they will end up in Gehenna if you are obedient to their changing doctrines, which they call Bible standards and furthermore use sanctions against you and your bellowed ones, relatives and friends, that they are not allow to even grate you. Think of your family if you die and the doctrines change short after, how du you they feel and will that be the way you show them love and take care of them?

I have never been a member of the Watchtower Society but have grown up in a family who all was members. I was involved in an accident and brought to the hospital and I got the change to give my instructions to the nurse that I prefer not to receive any blood unless it was absolutely necessary. The operation took more than eight hours.

Afterwards I look in my journal and saw a note: "The patient is a Jehowahs Witnesses", but I have never told anyone I was a member of the Watchtower Society, but for them it was quite naturally that I was, since I give my personally view of receiving blood. It comes further forth in the journal that transfusion was stopped, but continued, because I have not given them a blood card or the like. I would have been dead now, because my wounds bleed from several places which they could not stop and I get more blood than a normal individual normally contains.

The most important thing is that I can give testimony to life, opposite the thousands of adults and children who has been victims for the The Watchtower Societys changing doctrines.

I have been living in more than 20 years now after the incident and without that risks the Society try to scare their members with. There is a risk in everything in life but a risk based at religious laders who are totally unfamiliar with medicine is to play russian roulette with your and your bellowed ones life!

I wanna wish you all the best with your discission and operation but still like to pay your attention to and remember all the warnings we also receive in Colossians 2:8-23 and The first and second letter to Thimoty 4-1-4!

It is only when we are doing Gods will we can ecpect to be granted with the everlasting life, not by following religious leaders changing doctrines in which we risk to end up in a situation of blood guilt!

Neo. Try this link from BBC, then you will avoid the contact with your elders and get DF for taking up the blood issue with them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/realmedia/sunday/s20060716c.ram

Talkactive, you are wasting your time with Neologist. He has told us that he won't accept a reasonable argument if it conflicts with Watchtower teaching. In other words, he lets the Watchtower Society do his thinking for him. This is cult-like behavior. There is no reasoning with such a person. No doubt Neologist is dismayed when in the course of his door to door activity he runs into persons that blindly adhere to Church doctrine and won't reason from the Scriptures. Well, I suggest that he look in the mirror.

Teleologist, I fully agree with you, but I hope that people who have followed this debate have get warnings, not to be catch by another "Jim Jones movement" who sacrifice their children at an alter or for a Organizations doctrines, like those, at the time of the Bible, in Jeremiah 7:31-33!

The King James Version:

31: And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
32: Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
33: And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.

Don't be so quick to shake hands, Talk and Tele. You may have dropped some whitewash on my windshield, but I am not about to trade in my car.

Remember the time when, after some of his disciples left him, Jesus asked those remaining "Will you also go away?' Peter's response was "Whom should we go away to?" (John 6:67,68) While there may be grey areas in the matter of blood use, it can't be denied that blood has a special meaning to God. It's use is not a matter to be taken lightly.

As to whether blood is necessary to medicine, I refer you here, where you will find opinions of many who are not related to the Watchtower Society.

Neo, did I ever suggest you leave your religion? No. I've simply argued that various aspects of the JW blood policy are unscriptural.

No one here disputes there are advantages to bloodless surgery so I fail to see the relevance of the link you provided. We aren't debating the risks and benefits of blood transfusions but whether the Bible forbids them.

If I were to accept your argument, it would require a change in my attitude towards the Watchtower Society because it seems to require a conclusion on my part.

I have many unanswered questions about the Society's positions and about the Bible in general. I consider them as dust.

And BTW, many of those reading and watching this topic have never questioned the safety of blood transfusions.

Neologist wrote:


Yes, blood does have a special meaning to God. It represents life and life is sacred. That's why God required Noah to drain the blood from an animal he killed for food before eating the meat. Draining the blood from a slain animal was showing respect for the taking of that life. What God intended was to make people reflect upon the fact that they were taking life by divine permission and not by some natural right, and that life was precious in HIS eyes.

Neologist wrote:


I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that you would reject an argument solely because it was in disagreement with the Watchtower Society?

Do you think that if you disagree with anything the Watchtower Society teaches that you would have to leave the JW faith?

Do you think that all JW's believe everything the Watchtower Society teaches?

No particular religion is devoid of some shreds of truth or people would not follow them.

The best process is to gather the kernels of truth from all of the religions and form them into one religion of pure truth and unity.

The spirit of liberty, love and hope should be our guide.

Neo. Have you ever thought of what Peter really meant by his response?
Will it be possible for you to explain with reference to the Bible that Peter meant that we should go to any man created religious organisation.

In accordance to my best investigation in the Bible, Peter said, that we all should/ shall go to Jesus, the head of our Christian belief, not anything by man created! I know all the arguments claimed by The Watchtower and the Pope, to improve they are anointed.

By Mind Control, indoctrination, sanctions by repeating the same and the same again, convincing people that they are the only, by God anointed religious leaders, all others are false, (have you heard these words before?) spokesmen, channel and the like, they are able to control your life in slightest details, even to the point where people have committed murder, like the Crusaders and the Inquisitors.

Paul is maybe the best example I can give you. He was teached by religious leaders, more precise by and at the feet of Gamaliel, he was willing to accept killings at and pursue the first Christians as described in Acts 22:1-6. Galatians 1:13-17 because he also was convinced that he was doing the will of God!

King James Bible:

22:1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.

22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)

22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

22:5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.

22:7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

Galathians 1:13-17:

1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Above description is alike those who let their religious leaders make the thinking for them and here I can't avoid been thinking of the reverend Jim Jones in Guyana's Jungle convincing his followers that it was and would please God if they commit suicide, like those who blindly following the Watchtowers flickering doctrines in all colours of the rainbow.


Neither do I as Teologist recommend you or anybody else to stay or live the Watchtower Society, but only to inform you that their methods, do not differ from those political and religious leaders have get use of in all time of mankind!

A question I think will be fair to ask one self is who have teached the present religious leaders, hereunder members of The Governing Body what they believe and teach their followers? I think Jesus said it so clear in Matthew 15:12-20!

15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15:15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Son of a man has built The Watchtower Society and more precise they have built a religious house without a parapet and people have died and are going to die, because they have maked the Organisation to be equal to God and they are dangerous for themselves and their fellow men, called Jehovah's Witnesses, only if people are members of the Organization, which also is false, because Abel was the first witnesses for Noah, Abraham and the men of faith was not related to or was necessary to belong to an Organisation to be accepted by Jehovah as his Witnesses.

If somebody likes to belong to the Catholic church or The watchtower Society, it is a personal choice ones has to do, because in my opinion they all carry on bloodguilt, because of the many death casualties they have afforded by their manipulation of the Bible to fit into their doctrines to distance them from each other, all of them claiming that they are anointed by God, which isn't true, because their fruits show the opposite and thats why Jesus said in Matthew 23:23!

23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

NB bold added!

There are no two (religious) organizations more dissimilar than the Catholic Church and Jehovah's Witnesses. What have you been smoking? Murder? Like the Crusades? Like the Holocaust? Like the Rwandan massacres? Like the suicide bombers?

Let me ask you this: If all in the world were Jehovah's Witnesses, could we possibly have a war?

On top of it all, you have misread me. I am one of the most cussedly independent and rebellious persons you will ever meet; but even I can see the need for organization.

So, like, are the JWs intent upon devising a little organization at some point in our life times?

If you mean by conscription, I think not.

That's reassuring . . .

How are you this AM, set?

I ain't dead yet . . . i consider that a positive sign . . .

Neologist wrote:


I recognize the need for organization. What I dispute is the requirement of blind obedience. Don't you believe you must follow the teachings of the Watchtower Society even when you think they are wrong? How is that being independent?

Just like a old dog, bullyraggin' a cast-off shoe . . .

The operative word in your post is 'think'.