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Where is the balance between standing up for yourself . . .

 
 
material girl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 07:03 am
Ive no idea of the answer either.

I dont have a partner so the closest thing is my boss.

I used to be a pushover but have changed dramatically over the last few years.

As some of you may know I unnecessarily pick fights on here.
I think that is due to the fact I have alot of held in anger which I wasnt able to release at the appropriate time years back as i was so nice.

Back to my boss, he is a nice person but he has it in his head that he has to know better than me, and show it, even when i am clearly right.

A few years back I spoke to him about work, a completely resonable suggestion to which his response was to laugh in my face(he still does this but I am aware that it is HIS flaw)
Even more insultingly a week later he comes in, sits his colleagues down and reels off my ideas to them like they were his own big idea!!
I was so shocked i didnt stand up for myself and say 'Er... I said that to you last week and you laughed in my face.How come its a good idea this week?'.

I think we need to analize people before we know how to handle them.Some people can be /bullying but it takes a while to work out why.Then just handle it accordingly.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 03:15 pm
plainoldme wrote:
I think this discussion needs to be moved from the realm of the theoretical to the concrete.

Serious example: when my husband and I were first married, we lived in southern NH. He forbade me to work for any college because the pay was insufficient. He also told me to work only in NH and not in MA because he expected his dinner ready when he came from home work.

Mid-level example: He had his mother pick out our apt. , which was nothing I would ever selected, then he had the mother of his best friend select curtains -- I was still in Michigan before we married and he was on the road during the four months of between his moving to NH and our marriage.

Low level serious example: He told me that when furnishing our home, I could only shop at Paine's Furniture -- a store that has since gone out of business but seems to have been high end (never wentthere) or at antique shops.

My response to #1. After several months of fruitless looking in NH, I convinced him he should allow me to work in MA, after which I found two part-time NH jobs.

#2 Surprisingly, he decided Ethan Allen was alright. Interestingly, all antiques purchased by me were appraised at a higher value then those he inherited from his grandmother, a former dealer.

#3 I hated the drapes but told him the style was contemporary and did not match antique furnishings and suggested we return them. He refused again and again. Ifinally made new curtains.


Well, this has nothing to do with empathy, it is a power assessment within the relationship. Plainoldme, I don't know how old you were when you
got first married, but if my partner forbade me to do something that is
quite unreasonable in my book, then I do as I please. If he initiates a
discussion and declares why my choice is a bad idea, I certainly listen and if his argument is plausible and logical, I'd reconsider, but otherwise I would not.

A relationship is always a two-way street and one has to compromise,
sometimes more, and sometimes less, but it never should be a relationship/marriage where one forbids and one obeys. Never!!
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 01:03 pm
I don't think age has anything to do with it. When we were married in 1976, I was 28 and he was 33.

I wanted to neither be a "nag" or a doormat. For example, the standard woman's magazine advice was to never pick up after your husband. When we were dating, he did leave his fishing gear in the dining room but his clothes were generally put away. After our marriage, he would come home from work and put his tie and jacket on the sofa in the living room (an awkwardly shaped room that we did not use . . . we had a den with a sofa and television that we used when home by ourselves). About a week went by. He said that he couldn't find his clothes. I pointed to the sofa. "How original of you! You decorated with clothing!" he said. I always took this approach.

His father was a martinet who died when this man was 7 and his brother was 15 and sister 17. His sister was an alcoholic who resented her father the rest of her life.
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 01:33 pm
I think CJ's referring to your # 1 and #3 responses - you convinced him to allow you (allow??) to work in MA... and He refused, again and again... Why was he in charge of the drapery until you finally made new ones?

Your terminolgoy says who was in charge - he forbade you to do this, that and the other.

That's subjugation. Regardless of where you put his clothes.
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CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 01:47 pm
Yes, Mame is right, and subjugation is a good term for it.

Plainoldme, I just asked for your age, because you said "when I was
first married" and I assumed it was at a very early age - around 18.
Usually, one is more timid and inexperienced at that age, and I thought
your husband could have acted as a father figure. It was different
though, and at 28 you should have stood up for yourself, especially
when it came to such small matters as choosing drapes.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 11:28 am
CJ -- It is interesting that you thought I was young. Most people hearing the story of our marriage, assume we are people in our 70s. That's what I thought you were getting at.

A little bit of background: between the ages of 17 and 23, I had an on-again/off-again relationship with a man some might call the love of my life. I was a high school senior when we met although we attended the same church and I was aware of him since I was 13. He was two years older and a student at CalTech when we met. He later transferred to the U-Michigan.

I loved him but was afraid to say it first as I thought my declaration would limit his freedom. Years later, when he was between marriages, we exchanged letters and it turned out, he was waiting for me to speak!

As for my former husband, part of the problem may be that he has an auditory processing problem. But, it is also possible that, as then family therapist Terry Real said, he is a "rage-aholic."

When we met, he presented a set of values that matched my own. He claimed to have thrown off his family's ways.

There is a sadistic streak in the family.


Were you to ask my former husband about me, he would tell you that I abused him from day one.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 04:52 pm
Oh, plainoldme, I think most abusers portray themselves as "perpetual victims" when in fact their spouses are the ones who are being terrorized,
and you were probably the classical case of an abused wife who was
afraid to speak up in fear for his emotional outbursts. You were victimized
and as such you pretty much lose your own identity until you gain enough
strength to escape, or until someone outside is helping you.

You survived this marriage and I am sure you are far stronger today.

As for the love of your live - if you don't yield to temptations, you'll
regret it for the rest of your life. Are you still in contact?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 09:49 am
Calamity -- The love of my life remarried shortly after contacting me. Although he loves California beyond measure, he and his wife moved to North Carolina a few years back. No, we are not in contact and, at this point in time, I would not want to hear from him. I would never replay that relationship again, even if he were to show up a widower or a divorced man.

Its strange, but it took me a long time to recover from the debilitating effects of my marriage. For some reason -- some sort of perverse transfer or other -- because my former husband missed things from conversational cues to road signs, I became afraid to drive. I think the fact that I almost never went anywhere entered into the mix.

When my daughter began college about one hundred miles from home, she hoped the necessity of my driving across the state would cure me of my fear.

It helped. However, it is only within the last year, five years after her graduation, that I have begun to drive on freeways. My daughter was rather surprised a month ago at the speed at which I drove.
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CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 12:58 pm
Most importantly, plainoldme, you submerged as an assertive, strong
woman. That's how I pictured you from your posts and how you conducted yourself here - you're probably stronger as you think.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 09:48 am
But, I do want a balance between myself and partner and I think that is part of the problem that existed between myself and my former husband.

Interestingly, creating this thread caused me to think about someone that I dated for about three weeks, perhaps during the Christmas-New Year holidays of 1969 or 1970. His wife had left him. Really left: she took off for Europe with another man and things look final.

He was then a grad student in psychology and we had hours of conversation on many subjects. I still value some of the things he said (btw, his wife came home almost very quickly and wanted him back. I somehow think she just wanted a vacation. I exited but he did also. A few months later, I caught sight of him with another woman.)

During a conversation about a completely different subject -- the appearance of the band THe Doors on the Ed Sullivan Show -- really hits home in re: my former husband. The old boyfriend said, "They're a terrible band. They don't know how to break to allow a soloist to play."

Some people just don't know how to let a soloist in and I think he's one of them.
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