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REPENT!!! THE END IS HERE????

 
 
Foxfyre
 
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 08:14 pm
Sometime in every generation, there is at least one impromptu revival of Christians preaching a doctrine that the 'signs are right' and the 'end is near'. In previous decades, some groups actually sold everything they owned, gave it to the poor, and retreated to a figurative mountaintop to await the Second Coming and/or the Rapture depending on which they thought would occur first.

To date, all such hopeful groups have been disappointed. Others remain hopeful. Most are of the opinion that a time and date certain is not available to us.

Nevertheless, the current conflict in the Middle East has inevitably raised the level of expection on some religious fronts.

So what do you think? We could be seeing the beginnings of the end here? Or there's no evidence that the time is right? Or it's all a lot of hooey.

If possible, if we could keep a tone that is candid but not insulting to any person or groups, it would be so very much appreciated.

The following, I post just because the subject is pertinent and expressed in an interesting way. There will almost certainly be points of view different from those of the writer, however:

August 04, 2006
The Christians Are Coming, the Christians Are Coming!
By Kathleen Parker

WASHINGTON -- These are rich times for conspiracy theorists, and the mother lode these days may be found in the fevered minds of anti-Christianists.

Among paranoiacs who see a Jerry Falwell or a John Hagee in every burning bush, U.S. support for Israel isn't about protecting the only healthy democracy in the Middle East, but about advancing Armageddon and, yes, the Second Coming.

At last, we'll get to know what Jesus would drive. Most likely, he'd drive out the conspiracy theorists on both sides of this imagined apocalypse.

For those who do not spend their days pulling imaginary bugs out of their eye sockets, "Christianist'' is a relatively new term that roughly refers to a virulent strain of right-wing political Christianity that, supposedly, parallels Islamist lunacy.

Although both groups may be "true believers,'' those who try to connect the dots of Christian belief, specifically evangelical Christianity, to Islamism seem willing to overlook the fact that Islamists praise Allah and fly airplanes into buildings while Christianists praise Jesus and pass the mustard.

And though both groups of people may use scripture to shape their approach to the public square, Islamist interpretation of doctrine permits religious expression through suicide-murder, beheadings, public stonings (preferably of women) and Jew-hating, while Christianist doctrine deals in such wimpy notions as forgiveness, tolerance, redemption and cheek-turning. Weirdos.

A slew of new books have emerged with titles like "American Theocracy,'' and "Kingdom Coming,'' that tackle the perceived emerging Christocracy, while op-ed-ists opine that right-wing evangelicals are directing foreign policy through the White House. Words like "theocrats'' and "American Taliban'' have become commonplace in describing those who fill televangelism's La-Z-Boys.

Certainly, there's an element among some Christians who believe that Armageddon and the Second Coming are related to current events in the Middle East. For instance, John Hagee, televangelist and pastor of an 18,000-member mega-church in San Antonio specifically believes that Israel has to strike Iran's nuclear facilities in order to move things along toward Jesus' new millennial reign.

And though life may get messy for a time, all's well that ends well. Once Jesus gets back on board, Russia and China will have been dealt with, the Garden of Eden will reopen for business, and the righteous will rule the nations of the Earth. ACLU, beware.

Doubtless Hagee holds his audiences in thrall, but that audience does not happen to include George W. Bush or even (cue thunderclouds) Karl Rove. Nor millions of other Christians. Despite what the anti-Christianists seem to believe, the evangelical movement is not monolithic on such issues and Hagee doesn't have an office in the State Department.

In fact, at one White House meeting with about 35 evangelical leaders, one participant told me Hagee said nary a word. Even if he had, no one in the Bush administration is listening.

"You can be sure that Condi Rice is not reading Tim LaHaye books,'' says Michael Cromartie, vice president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center and director of its Evangelicals in Civic Life program. LaHaye is author of the best-selling apocalyptic "Left Behind'' series.

The Armageddonists, meanwhile, are suffering from what Cromartie calls "overheated eschatological expectations.''

"That means, they're always looking through world events for some signs of the End Times. ... If they want to spend their time worrying about that, fine. I'm pretty content to sit here and wait it out.''

At least part of what's behind the anti-Christianist movement, of course, is dislike of Bush, who happens to be a born-again Christian, combined with angry opposition to the war in Iraq, as well as contempt for the anti-intellectualism of some on the Christian right -- a perfect storm of secular disgust.

What's missing, however, is a basic understanding of reality: the fact that those who preach an End Times scenario also voted for Bush does not necessarily mean that they have Bush's ear. When someone like Hagee sends a smoke signal to the White House about Israel and Armageddon, the attitude at Pennsylvania Avenue is, "Oh yeah, John, we're aware of that, thank you.''

In other words, pro-Israel policy decisions are based on our long-standing support of America's democratic ally in the Middle East, not some theological imperative as divined through an eschatological grid. Or even an "8'' ball.

Nevertheless, Republicans are happy to get votes where they can. Which is to say: If Hagee were urging his congregation to tithe money to fight global warming based on some apocalyptic interpretation of Scripture, does anyone really think that Al Gore would decline the check?

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EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 08:23 pm
These "signs" have always happend, there has always been war, famine, floods.....Its life!


See....this is what i meant by freaking out!
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79185&start=30
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 11:24 pm
There will always be those that will not accept any of the signs of the end. There will always be those that will accept the signs. Many will say the natural disasters are caused by some scientific reason and some will say, no, it's a sign of the end times.

Personally, I think we're getting close.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 11:30 pm
What, if I spend all my money now, and later find out that I misread
the sign? Confused

Can anyone specify "The Sign" for me, please?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 11:35 pm
Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

emphasis mine



I Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

emphasis mine
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 12:12 am
Ho Hum.
Bullshit.
Get a life.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 12:56 am
Kathleen Parker wrote:
And though both groups of people may use scripture to shape their approach to the public square, Islamist interpretation of doctrine permits religious expression through suicide-murder, beheadings, public stonings (preferably of women) and Jew-hating, while Christianist doctrine deals in such wimpy notions as forgiveness, tolerance, redemption and cheek-turning. Weirdos.


"Chirstianist." Well, this is the first time I've come across the term. If it's something that was coined to reflect Muslim extremism in the term "Islamist," then Parker can't say that "Christianist doctrine deals in such wimpy notions as forgiveness, tolerance, redemption and cheek-turning." That would be some of the doctrine attributed to the Jesus in the New Testament Gospels. I think what would constitute Christianist doctrine would be things like slaughter and destruction through high-tech weaponry and armaments, torture, the love of money and the indulgence thereof, Muslim-hating, retribution, intolerance, perdition, and aggression.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 01:14 am
I would like for God to come ASAP, but instead of taking the Christians with him and leaving us marginal types to suffer at the hands of the a$$holes, why not take the a$$holes instead? That would make for a much more peaceful and considerate world.....
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 08:39 am
OH NO!, this post has shown me the signs, i must convert and where and sandwhich board saying the end is near and preach to ppl driving to work.

Hahaha, sarcasm
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 08:56 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I would like for God to come ASAP, but instead of taking the Christians with him and leaving us marginal types to suffer at the hands of the a$$holes, why not take the a$$holes instead? That would make for a much more peaceful and considerate world.....


You know what? This makes a lot of sense. I suggest you submit the memo and hope the heavenly powers that be take it under advisement. Smile

However, the various end times theories, pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post tribulation, pre-millenial, post-millenial, etc. also create various scenarios that might change the timeline we would most prefer. For instance, if there has to be a tribulation, I would prefer the good guys to be transported out and leave the bad guys to deal with that.

Selfish I know. But we have to be practical about these things. Smile

(Seriously folks, I think there is something eschatological in God's universal scheduling or I don't think the Bible would have so much to say about that. But I also think if we are made in God's image, then God must have a sense of humor. And I think He's perfectly aware that we don't really have all this stuff figured out and appreciates our trying to understand. And I figure its safest to be ready just in case.)
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:42 am
Hi Foxfyre,

It is my understanding that the "Faithful" (those that are true Christians) will be taken off the earth before the Tribulation. Those that are left will be those that have either decided against God or haven't made up their minds yet. They will have a period of time to decide for Christ or not.

I think there are plenty of signs out there that the end is coming soon, but since a day is as a thousand years to God and a thousand years is as a day, who is to say how close it is?

I do believe the great falling away from the church is taking place. More and more are saying there is no God or God is not in the churches of today.

2 Timothy 3: 1, 13:

"But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come . . .

Evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving [speaking lies easily and convincingly] and being deceived."

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;" (Isa 5:20 NKJ)

http://www.theprophecies.com/Warning%205%20Lying%20and%20Deceiving.html

How often, just on these threads has it been posted that Christianity is evil or dangerous? How often on these threads has God been called many names that are, well, less than kind? How often have excuses been made like "well, it's 2006 times change, etc."?

I've been thinking a lot about this lately, as I'm sure many have. Though I am not freaking out Laughing as some might think (hehehe), but it has given me pause.

The Bible says God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. So, if He was as strict as He was about following His commandments back then, that means He is just as strict about following them today. So, I don't think any excuse like, "Well, times change, society changes, etc.," are going to cut it with God at all. Makes me stop and think. :wink:
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:53 am
Arella Mae wrote:
Hi Foxfyre,

It is my understanding that the "Faithful" (those that are true Christians) will be taken off the earth before the Tribulation. Those that are left will be those that have either decided against God or haven't made up their minds yet. . .
How does that reconcile with Solomon's words?
"For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. 22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it." (Proverbs 2:21,22)
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 12:04 pm
Neologist,

Perhaps that is speaking of the Millenial Reign of Christ? :wink: Revelation 20
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 12:28 pm
Arella Mae, a well thought and well spoken post. You believe in the pre-tribulation theory of the Rapture and, in my opinion, that has as good a chance of being the right one as any other. Of course there are also many who hold to the mid-tribution theory and others who think the post-tribulation theory has the most merit And a goodly number think it is all metaphor and none of the theories can be taken literally. And I haven't included any here who think its all a lot of hooey. Smile

We do see to be living in a very troubled time spiritually and the current generation has little or no Christian 'memory' due to being raised by the boomers who were the first generation not to return to the Church.

So I agree there are a lot of good signs out there. My problem is that I've lived a lot of decades and the 'signs have been right' to some in all of them.

Does anybody recognize anything specific that is especially compelling here?
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 03:20 pm
I for some reason don't really think God would bother taking anyone away. If he wants a war, well, he'll just wage it against Satan and to Hell with anyone that gets in his way!

Seriously, though, let's take a look at it logically.

Only the most faithful of Christians are supposed to be spirited away, right? However, the most faithful Christians will be living their lives according to the word of Jesus Christ, which would mean helping out the needy. The needy would be those that remain on Earth. The most faithful Christians can't be good Christians, if they're abandoning the needy, so they'd opt to stay.

So no one would go up.

God being omniscient would know that, so he wouldn't bother taking anyone up.

QED
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 03:25 pm
Well there is certainly a logic to that for sure, Wolf.

On the other hand there are fingers, and also the fact that many of the end times theologians and theorists share a belief that those who remain behind will then remember the teachings and believe in their truth. They'll have to go through at least half of the tribulation (depending on which theory you hold to) by themselves, but they'll have the bejeebers scared out them, will become believers, and thus will join the faithful in the hereafter.

It's one of those 'tough love' teachings of scripture and interpretations of it.
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 05:23 pm
When i see ppl disapearing out of the clothes and firey ppl on horses i will worry...but it cant be just one, it has to be both Laughing
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 06:57 pm
So, if millions of people disappeared from the face of the earth, that wouldn't convince you? You'd have to see more?
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 09:02 pm
no i was joking. But wait ppl will really just disappear? I thought that was just a movie, well i guess i have nothing to worry about if its really that obvious.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 09:03 pm
neologist wrote:
Arella Mae wrote:
Hi Foxfyre,

It is my understanding that the "Faithful" (those that are true Christians) will be taken off the earth before the Tribulation. Those that are left will be those that have either decided against God or haven't made up their minds yet. . .
How does that reconcile with Solomon's words?
"For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. 22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it." (Proverbs 2:21,22)


I have to agree, Neo. In context, those 'taken away' are the wicked taken in judgement.

Quote:
Matt 24:37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
emphasis mine

The unbelieving are those who are taken away in the flood and knew not until it came. They are compared to those taken when the Son of man returns.
0 Replies
 
 

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