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The Establishment of Israel

 
 
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 08:21 am
I would like to start a thread to discuss only one subject - the establishment of Israel. Please don't discuss history more than 2 or 3 years beyond its establishment. I would prefer that this thread remain on topic and not become a chaotic free-for-all about a multiplicity of subjects. I'll start the ball rolling with this article from Wikipedia:

Quote:
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence together with unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations, the British government decided to withdraw from the Palestine Mandate. The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, with the Jewish area consisting of roughly 55% of the land, and the Arab area roughly 45%. Jerusalem was planned to be an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.

Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the UN General Assembly on November 29, 1947, David Ben-Gurion tentatively accepted the partition, while the Arab League rejected it. Scattered attacks on civilians of both sides soon turned into widespread fighting between Arabs and Jews, this civil war being the first "phase" of the 1948 War of Independence.

The State of Israel was proclaimed on May 14, 1948, one day before the expiry of the Palestine Mandate.

Israel was admitted as a member of the United Nations on May 11, 1949.


Wikipedia

Please try to post mostly your own opinions, and not lengthy opinion pieces by other people. If you have no opinions of your own, perhaps these boards aren't a good place for you.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 11:35 am
Quote:
1947 UN Partition Plan

On 29 November 1947 the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine or United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict in the British Mandate of Palestine, was approved by the United Nations General Assembly, at the UN World Headquarters in New York. The plan partitioned the territory into Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area, encompassing Bethlehem, coming under international control. The failure of this plan led to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Creation of the plan
The United Nations, the successor to the League of Nations, attempted to solve the dispute between the Jews and Arabs in Palestine. On May 15 1947 the UN appointed a committee, the UNSCOP, composed of representatives from eleven states. To make the committee more neutral, none of the Great Powers were represented. After spending three months conducting hearings and general survey of the situation in Palestine, UNSCOP officially released its report on August 31. A majority of nations (Canada, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, Netherlands, Peru, Sweden, Uruguay) recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states, with Jerusalem to be placed under international administration. A minority (India, Iran, Yugoslavia) supported the creation of a single federal state containing both Jewish and Arab constituent states. Australia abstained.

On November 29, the UN General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favor of the Partition Plan, while making some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it. The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal. The 33 countries that voted in favor of [
    The Jewish population was concentrated in settlement areas in 1947. The borders were drawn to encompass them, placing most of the Jewish population in the Jewish state. (Map reflects Jewish owned land not the size and number of settlements) State of Israel The UN General Assembly made a non-binding recommendation for a three-way partition of Palestine into a Jewish State, an Arab State and a small internationally administered zone including the religiously significant towns Jerusalem and Bethlehem. The two states envisioned in the plan were each composed of three major sections, linked by extraterritorial crossroads. The Jewish state would receive the Coastal Plain, stretching from Haifa to Rehovot, the Eastern Galilee (surrounding the Sea of Galilee and including the Galilee panhandle) and the Negev, including the southern outpost of Umm Rashrash (now Eilat). The Arab state would receive the Western Galilee, with the town of Acre, the Samarian highlands and the Judean highlands, and the southern coast stretching from north of Isdud (now Ashdod) and encompassing what is now the Gaza Strip, with a section of desert along the Egyptian border. The UNSCOP report placed the mostly-Arab town of Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv, in the Jewish state, but it was moved to form an enclave part of the Arab State before the proposal went before the UN. The plan was a compromise position based on two other plans, giving more or less land to each state. The plan tried its best to accommodate as many Jews as possible into the Jewish state. In many specific cases, this meant including areas of Arab majority (but with a significant Jewish minority) in the Jewish state. Thus the Jewish State would have an overall large Arab minority. Areas that were sparsely populated (like the Negev), were also included in the Jewish state to create room for immigration in order to relieve the "Jewish Problem". Territory Arab population % Arab Jewish population % Jewish Total population Arab State 725,000 99% 10,000 1% 735,000 Jewish State 407,000 45% 498,000 55% 905,000 International 105,000 51% 100,000 49% 205,000 Total 1,237,000 67% 608,000 33% 1,845,000 Data from the Report of UNSCOP - 1947 The UNSCOP Report also noted that "in addition there will be in the Jewish State about 90,000 Bedouins, cultivators and stock owners who seek grazing further afield in dry seasons." [2] Reactions to the plan The majority of the Jews and Jewish groups accepted the proposal, in particular the Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation. A minority of extreme nationalist Jewish groups like Menachem Begin's Irgun Tsvai Leumi and Yitzhak Shamir's Lehi, (known as the Stern Gang) which had been fighting the British, rejected it. Numerous records indicate the joy of Palestine's Jewish inhabitants as they attended to the U.N. session voting for the division proposal. Up to this day, Israeli history books mention November 29th (the date of this session) as the most important date in the Israel's acquisition of independence. However, Jews did criticise the lack of territorial continuity for the Jewish state. The Arab leadership opposed the plan, arguing that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000). While some Arab leaders opposed the right of the Jews for self-determination in the region, others criticised the amount and quality of land given to Israel.(The proposal, however, was not solely for the Jews in Palestine but for a secure homeland for Jews outside of Palestine.) Fighting began almost as soon as the plan was approved, beginning with the Jerusalem Riots of 1947. The fighting would have an effect on the Arab population of Palestine, as well the Jewish populations of neighboring Arab countries.


Source at Answers.com
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 12:24 pm
The problem with "history" is that it does not sit easily in a confined historical window.

Part of the story of "the establishment" involves promises of collusion between the zionists and arab leaders (who later reneged) against the British mandate going back to 1920. Part of it hinges on the words of the Peel report..."reconstitution of a Jewish homeland"...which recognizes historical continuity of Jewish occupancy since biblical times. Within the window lies the possible occasional atrocities of ethnic cleansing by the Israeli's reported by Katz, balanced against the cynical manipulation of the Palestinians by surrounding states who urged them to temporally flee their homes in advance of the coming "victory". And after the window we have for example the continuing vested interests of Arab states in allowing the refugee situation to continue to fester as a distraction from their own autocracies and unequal distribution of their oil wealth. Major power politics. as we well know" has also played a central part in reinforcing the 1948 "establishment"

My point is that you should examine why you seek to confine this question.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 12:55 pm
fresco wrote:
The problem with "history" is that it does not sit easily in a confined historical window....My point is that you should examine why you seek to confine this question.

It's both legitimate and possible to create a thread to describe a subject of interest. If I do not lay down some guideline in the first post, the thread may deteriorate to a plethora of discussions on subjects unrelated to the history of Israel's establishment. The creation of Israel is frequently alluded to on A2K and deserves its own thread.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 05:10 pm
Brandon,

If your focus is related to the current challenge to "the right to exist", then I would suggest that as far as the situation on the ground is concerned "history is bunk" regarding the legal niceties. Israel is fighting under its usual post holocaust "never again" banner and its enemies as usual are seeking to remove "the aggressive infidel occupation of muslim lands". The tragedy is that with Israeli brains and Arab oil who knows what benefits could have come to the region from co-operatation instead of belligerence.

If my assumption about your focus is not the case then by all means ignore the above.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 08:37 pm
fresco wrote:
Brandon,

If your focus is related to the current challenge to "the right to exist", then I would suggest that as far as the situation on the ground is concerned "history is bunk" regarding the legal niceties. Israel is fighting under its usual post holocaust "never again" banner and its enemies as usual are seeking to remove "the aggressive infidel occupation of muslim lands". The tragedy is that with Israeli brains and Arab oil who knows what benefits could have come to the region from co-operatation instead of belligerence.

If my assumption about your focus is not the case then by all means ignore the above.

Speculation about my focus is irrelevant. This is a thread about the founding of Israel, and you are off topic. You can, of course, ignore my wishes for the thread topic, but, then, I assure you, I will take that as permission to do the same to your threads. Now, back to the actual subject.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 08:46 pm
There is an amazing interview on Fox at the moment with a rabbi who is one of those who deplore the fact that Israel was set up, arguing that the jewish religion should not be tied to a place.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=80368&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 12:36 am
Brandon,

What specific sub-issues of circa 1948 do you think are worth debating ? Is it the wording of the documents or the differential accounts of events on the ground ?

McTag,

I believe there is a large group of Jews living in Jerusalem who do not recognize the Israeli government. They are waiting for "the Messiah".
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 12:59 am
Re: The Establishment of Israel
Brandon9000 wrote:
I would like to start a thread to discuss only one subject - the establishment of Israel. Please don't discuss history more than 2 or 3 years beyond its establishment.


I suppose, this is rather diificult, if not impossible to do.

Modern Israel springs from both religious and political sources. Those can't be put aside.

I think, the Balfour Declaration, Palestine under British League of Nations mandate, the pre-Holocaust Zionist struggle to secure international support for a new state etc etc are too important for the further development of Israel than it could be totally neglected.

Seriuosly debating such a topic without regarding history is impossibel. At least, I think so.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 01:46 am
I agree totally with Walter. Israel didn't spring suddenly into existence with no antecedent political/demographic/sociological/genocidal background. If you don't look at WHY Israel came into existence, if you arbitrarily ignore the first half of the 20th century, this is going to be a totally arid and sterile discussion. But then Brandon does tend to focus on minute and picky points without looking at the total context of things, and seems perfectly happy to do so.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 01:58 am
The only way to deal this topic according to Brandon's guidelines seems to create a pure timeline.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 07:50 am
Re: The Establishment of Israel
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
I would like to start a thread to discuss only one subject - the establishment of Israel. Please don't discuss history more than 2 or 3 years beyond its establishment.


I suppose, this is rather diificult, if not impossible to do.

Modern Israel springs from both religious and political sources. Those can't be put aside.

I think, the Balfour Declaration, Palestine under British League of Nations mandate, the pre-Holocaust Zionist struggle to secure international support for a new state etc etc are too important for the further development of Israel than it could be totally neglected.

Seriuosly debating such a topic without regarding history is impossibel. At least, I think so.

For God's sake, didn't you mental giants ever see a thread on a specific topic before? You may obviously involve any aspect of prior history that pertains to the founding of Israel, and no, it doesn't need to be a timeline, you can discuss it all you want. I only requested that things completely irrelevant to the founding not be discussed here. It begins to sound rather as though you fear a fact based, and orderly discussion of this topic.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 08:14 am
Re: The Establishment of Israel
Brandon9000 wrote:
It begins to sound rather as though you fear a fact based, and orderly discussion of this topic.


No not at all - just the opposite.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 08:16 am
Well, this is intended to be a forum so that people interested in that topic can discuss it. People not interested in it will not be coerced into doing so. Anyone who thinks it's a worthwhile subject, please proceed.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 08:18 am
Re: The Establishment of Israel
Brandon9000 wrote:
You may obviously involve any aspect of prior history that pertains to the founding of Israel ... . I only requested that things completely irrelevant to the founding not be discussed here.


Originally you said different:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Please don't discuss history more than 2 or 3 years beyond its establishment.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 08:21 am
Re: The Establishment of Israel
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
You may obviously involve any aspect of prior history that pertains to the founding of Israel ... . I only requested that things completely irrelevant to the founding not be discussed here.


Originally you said different:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Please don't discuss history more than 2 or 3 years beyond its establishment.

By "beyond," I meant after. I was not trying to limit earlier history.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 08:52 am
Re: The Establishment of Israel
Brandon9000 wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
You may obviously involve any aspect of prior history that pertains to the founding of Israel ... . I only requested that things completely irrelevant to the founding not be discussed here.


Originally you said different:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Please don't discuss history more than 2 or 3 years beyond its establishment.

By "beyond," I meant after. I was not trying to limit earlier history.
ok I'll start then. One day, when Moses had nothing better to do, he took a walk up the mountain top...
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