Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?

Atavistic wrote:

But I have no intention of being coerced into writing the man off, just because he said some offensive things. He didn't do anything to me. What ever happened to freedom of speech?

No one asked you to "write the man off". I really don't care what you do. The issue was that you seem overly invested in focusing on Mel's alcoholism, and discounting his obvious anti-Semitism.

As far as "freedom of speech" if I have to explain this concept to one more person on this site, I think that I am going to scream. "Freedom of speech" is part of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. It has to do with forbidding CONGRESS to pass any laws forbidding freedom of speech. It has absolutely nothing to do with interactions amongst private citizens.

As far a A2K is concerned, as long as the members adhere to the website's Terms of Service, it is OK with them. If a member doesn't, there are consequences.

Quote:

Article [I.]
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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The picture of him with his arm around both young girls at the bar -- were they perhaps Jewish?

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Lightwizard wrote:

Atavistic wrote:
Lightwizard, I don't appreciate your condescending tone. Who you know is irrelevant. If one of my friends did something stupid like this, I would not disown him just because some politically-correct activist says I should. I believe in a little thing called loyalty. I don't give a good damn if people are "offended."

Phoenix, who said anything about a pass? He should be prosecuted for his drunk-driving, but no more. If anyone personally has a problem with his comments, fine, they're welcome to act accordingly. But I have no intention of being coerced into writing the man off, just because he said some offensive things. He didn't do anything to me. What ever happened to freedom of speech?

That's too bad -- I didn't know Mel Gibson was your friend. Friends are those you know all the bad things about them but they are your friend anyway. Who's a "politically correct activist?" Haven't read one in any of this thread. I don't give a damn if anyone here thinks you are offensive even while you are on the defensive. Mel is plainly a hypocrite who made a commercial successful religious film for the church goers but got terrible reviews -- one reviewer referring to it as a snuff film.

If none of this matters to you, that's your bag. Your tone is patronizing, and condescending. Don't like your own medicine?

Well I'm glad we are getting along so well. It really warms my heart. I wasn't referring to anyone on this site as the activist. I was referring to all the talking heads in the media who feel it is their duty to "make Gibson pay" for his remarks.

"We would hope that Hollywood now would realize the bigot in their midst and that they will distance themselves from this anti-Semite." Abraham Foxman

"People in the entertainment community, whether Jew or gentile, need to demonstrate that they understand how much is at stake in this by professionally shunning Mel Gibson, and refuse to work with him, even if it means a sacrifice to their bottom line." Ari Emanuel

Maybe people should worry about the people that really hate Jews and are trying to kill them. I think you know who I'm refferring to.

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Phoenix, I'm quite aware of thr meaning of freedom of speech.

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The distancing from Mel was already happening. His father doesn't believe the Holocaust happened. The acorn obviously doesn't fall far from the tree. The anti-Semitic ravings have already leaked even if Mel tries to please No Contest and hide them. You are now, whether you intend it or not, identifying yourself as anti-Semitic. You had to clarify who you were calling activist because you don't know how to write. You're going to have a tough time at A2K. Go to a meeting, or call your sponsor and tell him what you are posting on A2K. Good luck.

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Quote:

Phoenix, who said anything about a pass? He should be prosecuted for his drunk-driving, but no more. If anyone personally has a problem with his comments, fine, they're welcome to act accordingly. But I have no intention of being coerced into writing the man off, just because he said some offensive things. He didn't do anything to me. What ever happened to freedom of speech?

Atavistic wrote:

Phoenix, I'm quite aware of thr meaning of freedom of speech.

Hmmmmm....................Can't tell from your writing.

Actually, there is no unconditional freedom of speech. Ask anyone who has been on the losing end of a slander lawsuit.

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Uh, that would be libel if it is in writing.

What the newbie is doing is assuming the moderators enforce something curbing freedom of speech other than outright, nasty name calling, racism or other ugly prejudice. Attacking this poster's opinion is just what he deserves, sticking his neck out for the quillotine. Is this Marie Antoinette come back to life? Very Happy

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And to think, I was about to apologize for being so defensive.

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BTW, for now there is no libel on a public online forum if it is all anonymous. I don't believe that the bill going through the legislature is passed or if it will be passed that one can sue for libel on an anonymous forum.

Many of us know each other's real names, their private E mail, phone number and whereabouts. That's why there are gatherings of A2Kers around the country (I started a new job and couldn't make the one in San Francisco a couple of years back and always regretted it).

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I figured you would apologize, but also for going on the offensive in your defense. Mel doesn't need defending -- he's an international celebrity and he has to take the good with the bad when being in the public eye just like Clinton and the little black dress). Your addressing a politically liberal member, so I am always willing to let by gones be by gones. I was actually in the mode of ribbing you in those last posts. Okay, so it was shamless baiting. Sorry, but I couldn't pass it up. :wink: Razz

I have a suggestion. Let's all take a step back and let Atavistic realize that he didn't barge into Yahoo Chat! There's actually many smart people on the forum and I'm not patting myself on the back as that is for each individual poster to decide whether I'm one of them. Atavistic I perceive as smart but some emotions came out about the bane of alcoholism and I can certainly appreciate that. Obviously, Atavistic is stll anonymous but I'm not sure he is in AA.

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Lightwizard wrote:

I figured you would apologize, but also for going on the offensive in your defense. Mel doesn't need defending -- he's an international celebrity and he has to take the good with the bad when being in the public eye. Your addressing a politically liberal member, so I am always willing to let by gones be by gones. I was actually in the mode of ribbing you in those last posts. Okay, so it was shamless baiting. Sorry, but I couldn't pass it up. :wink:

OK, no hard feelings. I don't know why I felt the need to defend him. I suppose anything involving alcoholism tends to bring out my emotions. I hope our future encounters are more pleasant. Smile

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In a small town in rural Mexico, I've observed that the friends of a violent drunk tend to justify his actions by blaming it on the boos (the-devil -made-him-do-it type of rationale). His enemies say "in vino veritas", i.e., the alcohol reveals his true character.
As an abstract principle, I prefer the latter: some people are mean drunks, others are loving drunks. It's a matter of character.

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I have some periodic alcohol abuse in my background (I think anybody who started out as a social drinker has had it get out of hand sometime). I know what the affliction is all about. It's just my perception of Mel is not good to begin with -- being a film buff, I don't consider his acting all that great and have some idea of the politics within the Academy that gave him Oscars for "Braveheart." Could be, that year had some just slightly above average competition. He's gone downhill with the movies he's made lately and with the predominance of Jewish executives in Hollywood, he'd better spend the money (that's money, like the money changers in the temple in the Bible) he made off of "Passion" wisely. He certainly didn't make it in TV with his pathetically unfunny sit-com with cameos by him as a perverse cop, a character which he tried to make funny by making him a misogynist womanizer (well, duh, that was not hard to portray).

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JLNobody wrote:

In a small town in rural Mexico, I've observed that the friends of a violent drunk tend to justify his actions by blaming it on the boos (the-devil -made-him-do-it type of rationale). His enemies say "in vino veritas", i.e., the alcohol reveals his true character.
As an abstract principle, I prefer the latter: some people are mean drunks, others are loving drunks. It's a matter of character.

When I did drink one-too-many in the past, some of my friends said it dulled my wit and they told me they liked me better if I, say, limited it to a glass of wine. Only your true friends will tell you! Completely sober, I'm afraid I often am a bit too acidic with the wit. However, it's still morning and I don't drink until after 5:00.

Well, hmmm, it is past 5:00 -- AM, that is. Very Happy

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If I get drunk--which has only been a dozen times in my life--I get really stupid. I drink two glasses of red wine almost every day. It's noon here and I'm having my first glass now (the second is with dinner at 1 p.m.). The point is that I love red wine but almost never get drunk, just a little relaxed, and sometimes, with three or four drinks of wine I rush to my studio and start an abstract painting, guided by the wild hand of Dionysus.

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JLNobody wrote:

If I get drunk--which has only been a dozen times in my life--I get really stupid. I drink two glasses of red wine almost every day. It's noon here and I'm having my first glass now (the second is with dinner at 1 p.m.). The point is that I love red wine but almost never get drunk, just a little relaxed, and sometimes, with three or four drinks of wine I rush to my studio and start an abstract painting, guided by the wild hand of Dionysus.

Well, you already know how I love a good Pinot Noir (even before "Sideways!") It does relax one and brings down blood pressure. I always have at least cheese and crackers if I'm going to have just one glass. At noon, I'd be up for a nap.

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And when high you never depecate jews, gentiles, gays or straights?
I only spill out my resentment against the extreme political and religious right.

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Lightwizard--

Quote:

...Clinton and the little black dress...

Daaarling--the dress was blue.

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I don't know, from my experience, a true drunk can go from being lovey-dovey one minute, to putting a brick through a window the next. I think alcohol affects an alcoholic differently than a mere social drinker. Granted, the alcohol lowers inhibitions and might bring out the person's true feelings, but there is a point at which the alcoholic enters a blackout and becomes a completely different person. I don't even know how to describe this state of mind, perhaps savage.

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JLNobody wrote:

And when high you never depecate jews, gentiles, gays or straights?
I only spill out my resentment against the extreme political and religious right.

I'm sure I've said things much worse than what Mel said. The only problem is, I can't remember!

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Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?

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