Jesus Christ and Homosexuality.

Blessed Are

Blessed are the one way ticket holders
on a one way street.
Blessed are the midnight riders
for in the shadow of God they sleep.
Blessed are the huddled hikers
staring out at falling rain,
wondering at the retribution
in their personal acquaintance with pain.
Blessed are the blood relations
of the young ones who have died,
who had not the time or patience
to carry on this earthly ride.
Rain will come and winds will blow,
wild deer die in the mountain snow.
Birds will beat at heaven's wall,
what comes to one must come to us all.

For you and I are one way ticket holders
on a one way street.
which lies across a golden valley
where the waters of joy and hope run deep.
So if you pass the parents weeping
of the young ones who have died,
take them to your warmth and keeping
for blessed are the tears they cried
and many were the years they tried.
Take them to that valley wide
and let their souls be pacified.

Joan Baez

Pr 3:34
Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?


there is no excuse for sin now that we are Born again in the Holy Spirit....Why would a person want to continue in sin???? IF we love Christ, that is.........

Only Jews. Those laws only applied to the Jewish people. They did not expect non-Jews to follow them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/13/wgay13.xml

If some behaviors are dictated by genetics then the flesh has predetermined will. God made the flesh that way. According to the Bible God created us in his image. So if homosexuals are born that way then they are also born in the image of God.

That does not mean that there are not standards. The law of liberty is love. Liberty cannot be fulfilled without love.

Love is not love when it is obstructed by fear. Unity is not made but it is kept.

Unity is the result of liberty.

Christianity is no longer Christianity when it has been hijacked by legalism and terror. The same goes for Islam, law cannot bring unity it can only lead to division. It is the same law that discriminates against homosexuals that also says woman are inherently evil and inferior to men.

When the genetic factors of sexuality become clear so will the bias of those who magnified the law above liberty. As those who believed pork was evil and sinful. Yet with modern biology we learn it was the disease associated with the animal not the animal itself. The animal is just as godly as any other animal.

With this same logic homosexuality is only sinful when it is practiced in promiscuity. When it results in the spread of disease. Just as any sexual practice that fosters disease homosexuals can contract disease also.

Yet just as the pork, the homosexual is just as holy an animal as the heterosexual. God created all animals and made them holy. Just as God created homosexuals the way he did. Only one animal needed to wait till it's time to become acceptable to God.

Moses equated homosexuality with disease just as he equated pork with disease. In only a way he was right. Homosexuals are high risk and are more likely to contract STD's. I blame most of this on the institution of marriage and how that gays and lesbians have been denied this helper of monogamous matrimony.

The legalists have hijacked Christianity and have inserted the law back into religion and in thus doing so have brought the psyche of the sexual revolution back into the dark ages. They re-crucify Christ with every word and God becomes a devil again and preys on the fears of people.

Er... RexRed, the study that showed homosexuals were more at risk was severely flawed. It was done by a known homophobe, Paul Cameron, whom was disowned by the American Psychological Association.

If anything, the spread of STDs has more to do with the fact that men are involved. Lesbians, I think you'll find, don't have such a high risk factor because there's less transmission of bodily fluids from one body to another.

And as interesting as that Telegraph article is, I'd really have liked it if they had posted a reference to the original study.

rex the nt says homosexuals wont inherit the kingdom of heaven....if God made ppl gay then said they couldnt get to heaven bc of the way he made them he would be an unjust hateful God....Noone is born gay.....noone is born a drunk....noone is born a liar....noone is born an adulterer.......You keep trying to say its legalism and terror....Yet its Gods own words to us...we are not to do those things God says are wrong....IT has nothing to do with hatred or opinions....Its Gods word and if we love him we follow it.....

Wolf........

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes
1cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

these verses were written to Christians not jews........The law was a guideline to point out sin so that people would know what not to do.....It was given to the jews bc those were Gods people...but that doesnt mean that non jews were ok in Gods eyes to break the law...Thou shalt not kill....thou shalt have no gods before me....etc...Do you think that God was ok with other groups of ppl doing these things...no we see many times in the ot where God ordered israel to kill certain groups of gentiles that were wicked...and their lists of sins were always things that were contrary to the law....also there are instances in the nt that show gentiles that followed the law...

now wolf i am in no way saying we are still to follow the law etc..the law was for the flesh..it shows all who live in the flesh things they arent to do... the law pointed out the necessity of needing a Savior...the law couldnt save and noone could keep all the law......Christ was needed to be the lamb of God to take away our sins......Now if a person follows Christ theya re born again of the Holy spirit...ie the Holy spirit lives in us and we dont follow after things of the flesh....now does that mean we wont ever struggle or mess up NO.....but it means that we are to daily crucify our flesh so that we dont want to do things that are sinful....and it means that our desires will be on Spiritual things not worldly or fleshly...i gave several verses in the nt where it says homosexuality is wrong...outside of the law....so there is no excuse for a christian to do this....

wolf welcome back!!!!!Missed your posts

The Bible does not say homosexuality is a sin and it also does not say that homosexuals individuals cannot go to heaven. Tell me where is says any such things. Chapter and verse. BUT, I can show you hundreds of scriptures professing liberty and they are very clear about the law bringing only death.

There you are again taking liberty with the text Kate and thus taking liberty with peoples lives. Did you ever wonder that the Bible was written to make it seem that homosexuals would go to hell just to cause the legalistic minded to proclaim this and show how foolish they look to other more reasonably minded individuals?

If you read and study the text nowhere does it say that homosexuals go to hell.

Colossians 3:5-7
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

Comment:
The verse lists vague social acts then it refers to a sub group called the children of disobedience. These are nowhere proven to be one and the same. You are associating the person with the act (like disease with behavior) and you are not looking to the inner spirit of life which is the real reality of who a person is... This is the message of Jesus Christ. It is the inward that is who we are not not the flesh. You seem to be categorizing people by the flesh instead of the spirit.

These are not people who are homosexual and have excepted Christ but they are born of idolatry. They "inside" reject liberty for law instead. This law even though they do not follow it they believe it and it eats at them until they become violent or unstable in some way or another. Like electricity when it travels through your body it is going to travel out and stress works the same way. Stress can be so bad that it can cause blindness and even death.

You are reading this wrong to suit your own purpose of bringing the law back into form. I propose that it was written purposely to be a snare to those legalistically minded who cannot realize liberty..

1Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.
this verse is pretty clear....these are things that God says will hinder one from going to heaven....

Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
I keep giving verse upon verse that shows its wrong....You take "liberty" to be an allowance to sin....The bible says we are to stop sinning not keep on sinning .........

Rex, as much as I often disagree with Kate, I must agree with her when she tels you that liberty is not license and freedom does not permit abdication of responsibility.

As much as you may believe that some are born to be homosexual, you still cannot escape Paul's admonition to put away your old personality and " . . . put on the new personality . . . created in God's will." (Ephesians 4:24)

Though Satan will oppose you, God will not ignore your efforts.

Twisty, twisty eisegesis.

Life must be confusing for those homosexuals infected with christianity. Such struggle.

Kate there are only about 6 verses in the whole Bible that VAGUELY mention homosexuality. They seem to be the only verses you know or care to consider. And in your knowledge of them you have take liberties above and beyond what they say and mean.

You said homosexuality is a sin (not in the Bible)
You have said homosexuals cannot go to heaven. (not in the Bible either)

Your fear does not work on me because I know what Bible says and does not say. Apparently you sill hold law ABOVE liberty. That alone is grounds for damnation.

Christ Jesus means nothing to you if you are still in the law so who has denied the sacrifice of Christ? Jesus had grace on those deemed by society as "sinful". But you on the other hand only have hell and brimstone. You are not in the image and love of Christ or God.

I say these things because I care about you. I fear more for you than I do for myself.

Again, the Bible does not call homosexuality a sin. It does not say homosexuals cannot be born again and have eternal life. Out of hundreds of pages it could have just stated that clearly. Out of hundreds of pages it just could have said homosexuals cannot go to heaven plain and simple. That is all it would have taken. But no it writes confusion between the lines as if they did not dare to proclaim homosexuality is a sin because they did not want to be proven wrong by biology. Well rightly so.

I have been reading and studying the Bible all of my life. I am well aware of what it says. I am well aware of it's "faults" also. That eating pork is evil and an abomination. That disease is cause by behavior and not microbes. The earth is flat and a flood covered the whole flat earth. I am aware also of the tyranny that religion had committed against science, and you are still holding the torch. You teach others that homosexuals are worthy of death. But bigotry is something to be rewarded for?

I love Christ and his people but if Christians do not love me then who has the problem? Kate you have taken liberties in your interpretation of the Bible and consider the same hate you impose on others may only be being reserved for you. You have put words in God's mouth that are not there. That is what Eve did, she added words to what God said. "Like homosexuality is a sin..." THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY THAT. You say that.

We are judged by how we judge others. I love you with the love of Christ Kate and I think you are in more danger of damnation than me. Consider if you had been BORN homosexual would you be any different than me? The answer is, maybe you would be a bit more humble.


Pray don't find fault

Pray don't find fault with the man who limps or stumbles along the road,
unless you have worn the shoes he wears
or struggled beneath his load.
There may be tacks in his shoes that hurt,
though hidden away from view,
or the burden he bears,
placed on your back might cause you to stumble too.
Don't sneer at the man who's down today
unless you have felt the blow
that caused his fall or felt the shame
that only the fallen know.
You may be strong,
but still the blows
that were his if dealt to you,
in the selfsame way, at the self
same time,
might cause you to stagger too.
Don't be too harsh with the man who sins
or pelt him with word or stone,
unless you are sure, yea, doubly sure,
that you have no sins of your own -
for you know perhaps if the tempter's voice
should whisper as softly to you
as it did to him when he went astray,
it might cause you to stumble too.

Author Unknown

Pr 16:25
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man [law], but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Hebrews 10:20
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Comment:
We are justified by the spirit (gift) within and not the flesh (works) without? Saved (salvation) by grace not works...

Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Comment:
Peace with God

Rex first, I have given you verses that arent in the law that condemn homosexuality....the last two verses i posted were not in the law they were written by Paul, the same guy who said we arent under the law....
I dont understand how you can say there is no clear verse when the one in corinthians says homosexuals wont inherit heaven.......Secondly... its wrong of you to say im hating bc i disagree with you...that is just ignorant and mean....I havent been hateful once....I love you in Christ but i wont condone anything that GOd says is wrong......You keep acting as though Im under the law etc bc i say something is wrong...You seem to think that the liberty we are given gives us the allowance to do things wrong...NO...i gave you a verse that says specifically that while we are under grace we still are not to sin.......You say homosexuality is not a sin yet the bible says its wicked...(that is one of the definitions of sin).......We clearly will not see eye to eye on this......im sorry if you have thought i was being hateful but i wasnt .........IM sorry that you cant see that it is wrong even though the bible shows it......

Kate that verse does not say that unless you have retranslated it to fit your love of the law. The word homosexual does not appear in the Bible even once. Vague descriptions of behaviors and something about what is natural considering there is not a single mention of DNA. And people born with sick children, their God fearing parents must have been evil...

When Christ Jesus returns for the rapture (gathering day) and we are caught up to meet him in the air. Only those who live in true liberty will be received up to be with him. The ones who cannot perceive liberty will be weighted down by sin consciousness.

1Co 2:14
But the natural man [law minded] receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually [liberty minded] discerned.

Comment:
Jesus Christ came the first time to sinners not the self righteous. He will come the second time to save homosexuals and the "sinners" from the radical right wing liberty haters. After the rapture, they (legalistic in your face Christians who worship Jesus in trinitarian idolatry) will remain on the earth and be judged by each other in wrath of their own law. This will bring the destruction of the earth. Liberty is not only for others but it is for ourselves. Only God can know the true heart and spirit of a person.

Those who live with a view toward flesh/law and the sins thereof will be judged by the same view and level of standard they impose upon others. No one can be as perfect as the scorn of the self righteous. Those who live by liberty have the hope of the return of Christ Jesus to cleanse us of all unrighteousness and bring us to God. Only through liberty can we inherit the kingdom of God.

The meek shall inherit the earth.

For the flesh lives by law and the flesh shall not inherit the kingdom of God. The spirit lives by the liberty of the perfection of God's "gift" and there can be no view toward law and the consequences of sin in the afterlife or this is judgment. And if God has reserved judgment and give his grace and mercy then dare no person to pass their own damnation.

Being free from the law is free from the law. Even if I "sin" I am still free from "God's" law.

I am just not free from "your" law Kate and you are not living in the image of God.

God's image is liberty not law.

Kate it is not you who are saving me but me who is saving you.

Joh 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Rex we are not going to see eye to eye on this.........God bless