Who and where are the real Jews?

@jespah,

Slavery was pretty common in the old world. But if you research the bible you will see where God told the children of Israel that He would send them to Egypt again by way of ships. What other group of people in history has been sent into slavery by way of ships? Blacks of the western hemisphere. And if you look at Revelations 2:9 speaks for itself.

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@Kisrae000,

Agreed. But the only ruling will be by Christ for all who overcome. That includes those converts who call themselves Jews which are not.

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@Foofie,

You had mentioned "The problem with that claim is that the majority of American Blacks came from specific non-Jewish African tribes that were involved in the slave trade by Europeans. The only "authentic" Black Jews are the Ethiopean Jews now resettled in Israel. If there are Blacks that converted to Judaism, that is nice; however, their respective history does not go back to Moses very likely, in my opinion."

If you go back to the bible where it was mentioned from God towards the children of Israel. Amos 9:7
7Are you not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? says the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?

So quite simply there the Ethiopians ARE NOT the Jews of the bible.

Lets be honest. Blacks are the one race that all other races across the globe do not like. Sure you individuals that could care one way or the other or actually may even like. However, overall they are the hated race of the globe. This in itself is a sign of God's curse towards His people for breaking the covenant w/ Him. Not to mention slavery, etc. No other race on this earth will ever as a whole admit to it. But it is true. They are the Jews of the bible. Of the tribe of Judah. The same tribe Jesus Christ came through. And the reason God's word went to the Gentiles/Greeks (other nations such as Greece, Europe, etc.) is because the Jews of the bible did not yield nor honor the covenant. For what that group of people (blacks) are still paying for this very day. And their identity has been removed as another sign/part of the punishment. In my opinion because I cannot find the scripture that mentions this. And if you go to Revelations 2:9 this speaks for itself.

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@newsjunkie123,

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Lets be honest. Blacks are the one race that all other races across the globe do not like. Sure you individuals that could care one way or the other or actually may even like. However, overall they are the hated race of the globe.

What a load of inane bull crap.

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@Mindonfire,

claiming to be a jew means following the commandments and God know the heart. Same as Christian, God know the heart.

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@Philis,

So secular Jews are a myth?

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I think a far more intriguing question would be who and where are the fake Jews. Is there a lot of faking going on?

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And who added the tag "Templer" to this topic? Where do those crazy German protestants come into it?

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@real life,

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Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.......

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:4-5

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:20-21

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@neologist,

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The covenant with natural Israel expired, according to Daniel 9:27, at the end of the "seventy weeks", which corresponds with the Baptism of Cornelius in late 36 C.E..

That's not supported by the text.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27

The confirmation of the covenant is described here:

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18

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@Moishe3rd,

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Jesus kind of went off the Path and Jews no longer claim responsibility for his... uh... philosophies.

Is that about the temple incident?

And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,
And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
Matthew 21:15-16

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@Mindonfire,

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What does Jesus mean in these two verse?
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Jesus didn't write those two verses. The sooner you understand that Revelation is what Galatians 1:8 mentioned

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But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

the better it is for you. Jesus's gospel is one of grace, while Revelations repeatedly preaches a gospel of works. A gospel different from the one given to you.

But to answer your question, this is actually proof that this is actually a false gospel, when you discover who these "Jews" are supposed to be. They're Christians.

The Revelation of John was not written by John. John's other writings are clearly scholarly, while Revelation was written in a "barbarous" style of Greek. Someone who did not know Greek was writing this, and clearly the bad text and grammar shows up even in translation, where we have a number or garbled and incomprehensible phrases mixed with prophecy. So what are we to make of this? Well...

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Acts 15
New King James Version

And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’
18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

There was a dispute about circumcision among early Christians. Or to put it more plainly, there were people who were essentially Jews, who believed Jesus was the Messiah and was coming again to judge the world. But Jesus did not come to judge the world. In fact, he says so.

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13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

The actual Gospel tells us that the very point of Jesus is not to condemn the world. So any "Jesus" mentioned in Revelation is not the real Jesus.

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@Theo202,

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For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

And it was all fulfilled in Jesus, as Paul the apostle who spread the truth of Jesus through out the northern lands including Ephesus says in; Colossians 2: 16-17: "So let no one make rules about what you eat or drink or about holy days or the New Moon Festival or the Sabbath. All such things are only a shadow of things in the future; the reality is Christ."

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@The Anointed,

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And it was all fulfilled in Jesus

That's not supported by the actual meaning of "fulfilled" in the source text.

Strongs G1096 (ginomai):
to become, i. e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

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@Theo202,

Quote:

Strongs G1096 (ginomai):
to become, i. e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

In Jesus we are free to eat anything, even food that has been offered to idols, as long as we don't deliberately do it in front of someone who is weak in the faith, and in so doing, offend our poor brother who believes that it is still a sin.

The future reality of the festivals and the weekly Sabbath "which are to come", "begin to be", ETC, are revealed in Jesus, and we are no longer required to keep the festivals or the weekly Sabbath as religious regulations, for as Jesus who worked healing on the Sabbath and gleaning grain while walking through the fields, said; "Man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man."

The realty of the weekly sabbath is the seventh period of one thousand years from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in "THAT DAY" at the age of 930. As it is written in the book of Jubilees 4: 30-31; "And he (ADAM) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ’On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it."

The Sabbath which is to come, and is the future reality of the weekly Sabbath, Is the day of the Lord, The day spoken of in Acts 17:31; "For He (The Lord God our savior) has fixed a day in which He shall judge the whole world with Justice by means of a 'MAN' He has 'CHOSEN'. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that 'MAN' from death."

And it is after the thousand years Sabbath is completed, that the heavenly fire of God, as revealed through his prophet Zephaniah, will incinerate all physical life forms on this planet.

Zephaniah, 1: 2-3; he LORD said, “I am going to destroy everything on earth, all human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy the whole human race, and no survivors will be left. I, the LORD, have spoken.

Verse 18; On the day when the LORD shows his fury, not even all their silver and gold will save them. The whole earth will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end — a sudden end — to everyone who lives on earth.

The oceans of the earth will be evaporated and the seas will be no more, and the spirits of all the dead will be divided by the Lord. who will separate the sheep, who are to inherit everlasting life, from the goats who must suffer 'THE SECOND DEATH". See Matthew 25; and Revelation 21.

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@The Anointed,

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In Jesus we are free to eat anything, even food that has been offered to idols, as long as we don't deliberately do it in front of someone who is weak in the faith, and in so doing, offend our poor brother who believes that it is still a sin.

That doctrine is from Paul, it has nothing to do with Jesus.

But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Revelation 2:14

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@Theo202,

Proof that Revelation is really a Jewish text, that directly contradicts Paul. And for that matter Jesus.

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14Once again Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “All of you, listen to Me and understand: 15Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him; but the things that come out of a man, these are what defile him.”

17After Jesus had left the crowd and gone into the house, His disciples inquired about the parable.

18“Are you still so dull?” He asked. “Do you not understand? Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him, 19because it does not enter his heart, but it goes into the stomach and then is eliminated.” (Thus all foods are clean.)

Yet Revelation insists we are punished for what we eat. What nonsense. Do you really think God cares that you ate a BLT? The thing God might care about is the state of your heart and soul.

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@Theo202,

Quote:

That doctrine is from Paul, it has nothing to do with Jesus.

You prove once again your hatred for the holy apostles of the Lord and your ignorance to the words of the Lord.

These are the words spoken from the mouth of Jesus; Matthew 15:11; What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."

Mark 7:15; Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them."

Matthew 15:17-20; "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of a person's mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts-murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them."

Paul merely verifies the words spoken by Jesus, and that was, that you can eat any food set before you without questioning whether it had previously been offered to idols, etc.

John the beloved disciple of Jesus, was told to write this to the angel of the church in Pergamum; “But there are a few things I have against you: there are some among you who follow the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak how to lead the people of Israel into sin by persuading them to eat food that had been offered to idols and to practise sexual immorality.”

According to the old covenant it was a sin to eat food that had been offered to idols, but that covenant was no longer in force when John was writing to the angel of the church in Pergamum.

The LORD says, “The time is coming when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of Egypt. Although I was like a husband to them, they did not keep that covenant. The new covenant that I will make with the people of Israel will be this: I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. None of them will have to teach his fellow-citizen to know the LORD, because all will know me, from the least to the greatest. I will forgive their sins and I will no longer remember their wrongs. I, the LORD, have spoken.”

The old covenant came into effect at Mt. Sinai through Moses, Israel’s representative, while the new covenant came into effect at Mt. Calvary through Christ, humanity’s representative.

On the night before his death the Son of MAN announced a “new covenant in my blood” (Luke 22:20). He was literally declaring his last will and testament, a new covenant that would come into effect when he died (Hebrews 9:16-28).

John goes on to reveal to the church in Pergamum: That in the same way that the Israelites of old were coerced into breaking the old covenant, by eating food offered to Idols and indulging in sexual immorality, they had people among them who follow the teaching of the Nicolaitans.

The doctrine of the Nicolaitans is the teaching that there is a strict hierarchy within God's church that must be respected by all. Ranks and levels are created in order to maintain power and control so that, ultimately, the lowest level of the church (the members) can be ruled over and taken advantage of at any time.

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@The Anointed,

Quote:

You prove once again your hatred for the holy apostles of the Lord and your ignorance to the words of the Lord.

"prove again?" You're insane. You simply substituted Paul's doctrine with what Jesus taught. Jesus said nothing about what others might think, that's entirely from Paul.

Here's what you said: "In Jesus we are free to eat anything, even food that has been offered to idols, as long as we don't deliberately do it in front of someone who is weak in the faith, and in so doing, offend our poor brother who believes that it is still a sin."

And here's Paul's doctrine:

Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1 Corinthians 8:7

Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
1 Corinthians 8:13

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@Theo202,

Quote:

"prove again?" You're insane. You simply substituted Paul's doctrine with what Jesus taught. Jesus said nothing about what others might think, that's entirely from Paul.

Here's what you said: "In Jesus we are free to eat anything, even food that has been offered to idols, as long as we don't deliberately do it in front of someone who is weak in the faith, and in so doing, offend our poor brother who believes that it is still a sin."

And here's Paul's doctrine:

Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1 Corinthians 8:7

Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
1 Corinthians 8:13

You are correct in saying that I have simply revealed that Paul's doctrine is in line with what Jesus taught.

Good News Bible Catholic Study Edition; 1 Corinthians 8: 7-13; 7. But not everyone knows this truth. Some people have been so used to idols that to this day when they eat such food they still think of it as food that belongs to an idol; their conscience is weak, and they feel they are defiled by the food.

Food, however, will not improve our relations with God; we shall not lose anything if we do not eat, nor shall we gain anything if we do eat.

Be careful, however, not to let your freedom of action make those who are weak in the faith fall into sin.

Suppose a person whose conscience is weak in this matter sees you, who have so-called “knowledge”, eating in the temple of an idol; will not this encourage him to eat food offered to idols?

And so this weak person, your brother for whom Christ died, will perish because of your “knowledge”!

And in this way you will be sinning against Christ by sinning against your Christian brothers and sisters and wounding their weak conscience.

So then, if food makes my brother or sister sin, I will never eat meat again, so as not to make my brother or sister fall into sin.

I believe that Paul and every true believer in Jesus, who said that we can eat all foods and none will defile us, could, and do, sit down to a nice meal of beef steaks and Lamb, or roast pork with a clear conscience. Idols are nothing, and any edible food that has been offered to nothing cannot harm you.

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Who and where are the real Jews?

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