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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 09:21 am
And, for those depressed by those lying bastards at Al-Reuters, this is good for a laugh...

The New BBC Logo
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 09:28 am
That's a hoot Sierra. And so appropriate it's scary.

Today's numbers:

Aug. 6, 2006 11:37 | Updated Aug. 6, 2006 17:53
The war in numbers
By YAAKOV KATZ AND AP


Since hostilities broke out in northern Israel and Lebanon 26 days ago,

89 Israelis have been killed including:

46 soldiers and

43 civilians

497 civilians were killed in Lebanon, according to authorities.

400 Hizbullah guerillas were killed, according to the IDF.

2,100 rockets fired at Israel

220 was the highest daily toll of rockets fired at Israel

90 kilometers was the deepest point Hizbullah's rockets reached, landing near Hadera.

Tens of thousands of tiny metal balls inside Syrian made 302 mm rockets.

8,700 sorties were flown by the IAF over Lebanon

4,600 targets were attacked by the IAF including:

260 headquarters and buildings belonging to Hizbullah

60 bunkers

70 weapons warehouses

30 Hizbullah infrastructure targets

90 Rocket launchers

100 suspicious vehicles believed to be carrying rockets or guerillas

50 bridges

1,200 launch sites and roads leading to launch sites

10,000 soldiers are operating in southern Lebanon

8 brigades are operating in southern Lebanon

20 special covert IDF operations in Lebanon

10,000 short range rockets still believed to be in the possession of HIzbullah.

100 long range rockets still believed to be in the possession of Hizbullah.

Some of the figures represent estimates or had been rounded up.
SOURCE
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 09:35 am
Calling Reuters on its all-too-obvious anti-Israel, pro-Hezbollah bias is beginning to produce at least an attempt by Reuters to balance its reporting better. This in today's release:

Olmert tells Europe to stop preaching to Israel
Aug 6, 6:56 AM (ET)

BERLIN (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told European leaders to stop preaching to him about civilian war casualties in an interview published on Sunday in German newspaper Welt am Sonntag.

Olmert also said it would not be possible to completely destroy Hizbollah and insisted he did not underestimate them, saying they had fired just 3,000 of their arsenal of 15,000 rockets so far.

"Where do they get the right to preach to Israel?" Olmert said when asked about criticism from European capitals of Israeli military operations that have led to a heavy civilian toll.

"European countries attacked Kosovo and killed ten thousand civilians. Ten thousand! And none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket.

"I'm not saying it was wrong to intervene in Kosovo. But please: Don't preach to us about the treatment of civilians."
MORE HERE. . . .
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 09:43 am
Blue, but what do you think? I gather that you feel that Israelis should just surrender their state and sail off somewhere.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 10:03 am
Advocate wrote:
Blue, but what do you think? I gather that you feel that Israelis should just surrender their state and sail off somewhere.


Well Steve in Britan and F4F have essentially said this, Advocate.

Meanwhile, the parties on the Hizbollah side--Lebanon, Syria, and Iran--are pretty firm in their rejection of the US/French cease fire proposal:

Quote:
The Syrian foreign minister declared on Sunday that the U.S.-French cease-fire plan was "a recipe for the continuation of the war" and he warned his armed forces were under orders to respond immediately if Israel attacks.

SOURCE
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 10:27 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Blue, but what do you think? I gather that you feel that Israelis should just surrender their state and sail off somewhere.


Well Steve in Britan and F4F have essentially said this, Advocate.
I have essentially said nothing of the sort. Perhaps you would like to essentially apologise. And Britain has two i's.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 10:31 am
Foxfyre wrote:
"European countries attacked Kosovo and killed ten thousand civilians. Ten thousand! And none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket.


In the orginal interview, this was just a minor point.

But since you highlightened that, I like to do so with another one:

"Es gibt derzeit kein Land, das Israel freundlicher gesonnen ist als Deutschland. Wir wissen enorm zu schätzen, dass die Deutschen zu uns gehalten haben." 'There's at the moment no other country which is more friendly towards Israel than Germany. We hold in highest regard that the Germans sided with us."

source: Interview PM Ehud Olmert in Welt am Sonntag
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 10:42 am
Advocate, I think it's Israel who does not want a 2 state solution. I'm all for it myself. Both Hamas and Islamic Jihad had expressed a willingness to accept a 2 state solution based on the 1967 borders. They have been working with a group of international religious leaders including Hamas main Sheik. A press conference had been called to announce Hamas desire to begin negotiations on a 2 state solution with 2 members of the duly elected Hamas government present. Israel had been following the progress of the talks yet refused to send a representative. Instead the day of the press conference the Israeli government stopped the 2 Hamas spokesmen on their way to the press conference and warned them not to attend. They were later arrested. Without the Hamas spokesmen present the thing was called off. The next day Israel killed a Palestinian family on a beach in Gaza. This atrocity now forgotten was meant to inflame Arabs everywhere. This story is important to understanding the present mess. It was after these events that the soldiers were captured but the action taken against the press conference shows me that the last thing the Israelis want is a Hamas willing to accept a 2 state solution. Seems to me both the Bushies and Israel have an imperialist intent in the mideast. They want a lean, mean, dehydrated and malnourished Hamas to push around and not one that gums up the imperialist blueprint by moderating it's position.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 10:44 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Blue, but what do you think? I gather that you feel that Israelis should just surrender their state and sail off somewhere.


Well Steve in Britan and F4F have essentially said this, Advocate.
I have essentially said nothing of the sort. Perhaps you would like to essentially apologise. And Britain has two i's.


Sorry for the misspelling and if I mischaracterized what you previously said. Didn't you say that Israel was a failed state and should give up on being a Jewish state? Or was that somebody else?
(Post: 2192078)
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:02 am
Well sadly I do think the zionist experiment that is israel to have failed, in so far that no state is viable that can only live in a perpetual state of war with its neighbours. Israel has neither properly conquered territory and secured borders through ruthless application of military might...though some might disagree here...nor secured borders through friendship and co operation with neighbouring states. It might not all be Israel's fault but its a fact the zionist experiment has failed.

I would like to see that area of land formerly known as Palestine to be a bi national state with rights for all religions and eithnicities guaranteed by the United Nations. But I recognise that is not going to happen. Therefore I accept the only way forward is a two state solution, one Jewish one Palestinian. But two states means two not an aggressive colonialist expansionist and racist Israel on the one hand and a palestinian bantustan on the other. Israel must accept that the only way forward is to make peace with its neighbours and her neighbours must accept the reality of the state of Israel. Its time to get back on the road map to peace, something I suspect many in Israel and the United States are only too keen to sabotage.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:11 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
Well sadly I do think the zionist experiment that is israel to have failed, in so far that no state is viable that can only live in a perpetual state of war with its neighbours. Israel has neither properly conquered territory and secured borders through ruthless application of military might...though some might disagree here...nor secured borders through friendship and co operation with neighbouring states. It might not all be Israel's fault but its a fact the zionist experiment has failed.

I would like to see that area of land formerly known as Palestine to be a bi national state with rights for all religions and eithnicities guaranteed by the United Nations. But I recognise that is not going to happen. Therefore I accept the only way forward is a two state solution, one Jewish one Palestinian. But two states means two not an aggressive colonialist expansionist and racist Israel on the one hand and a palestinian bantustan on the other. Israel must accept that the only way forward is to make peace with its neighbours and her neighbours must accept the reality of the state of Israel. Its time to get back on the road map to peace, something I suspect many in Israel and the United States are only too keen to sabotage.


I consider you a friend, Steve, so please forgive me when I say most of this is pure bullsh*t.

Israel racist? When 1/3 of the Israeli population is Arab living quite peacefully and unhindered within the borders of Israel? Where do you see any such acceptance of the Jews anywhere in the other Arab states?
Israel lived peacefully with the Palestinians too except for retaliation when the bombers devastated schools, market places, and public transportation.

Whatever Israel took and occupied in the way of land was during military battles that they did not start but which were intended to wipe them off the face of the earth. Some would say the justification is legitimate spoils of war and restitution for the cost of fighting a war they neither wanted nor started.

As long as anti-Israel voices like yours call for ISRAEL to make all the concessions, for ISRAEL to make the peace, etc., you are correct. There will be no peace. Israel has no interest in the Arab world and only asks to be left alone.

When people like you start calling for the ARABS to live in peace with Israel and stop threatening it with words and/or bombs and condemn terrorist attacks and allow Israel its place in the world, THEN we might start seeing some progress.

Israel has benefitted very little for the many MANY concessions it has made. For it to just lie down and refuse to fight back would 100% guarantee that it would indeed be wiped off the face of the earth or life there would be made so miserable for the Jews that they would be forced to leave.

I personally don't see that as justice.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:12 am
Foxfyre wrote:

"I'm not saying it was wrong to intervene in Kosovo. But...


He should be saying that; it absolutely WAS wrong.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:15 am
Chris Plant (WMAL) this morning stated that the owners of the popular blog littlegreenfootballs.com has received death threats from an email address originating at Reuters.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:16 am
Reuters death threat story now linked from Drudge.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:19 am
gungasnake wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:

"I'm not saying it was wrong to intervene in Kosovo. But...


He should be saying that; it absolutely WAS wrong.


Perhaps, but I think he thinks there was justification to attempt to stop the genocide there. Of course the USA was the front runner in that excercise, but you didn't hear any criticism of those 10,000 civilian deaths then. That was a Clinton administration project and Europe joined in with enthusiasm.

Now a few hundred deaths in Lebanon however, committed by a country, backed by the Bush administration, that is defending itself in a fight others started, and it's the most horrendous atrocity ever to occur.

Again, the hypocrisy is beyond belief.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:19 am
In order for 2 states to work each state would need to realize how entwined the needs of both states are and that they must work so closely together to solve problems that in effect they would act as one state. For instance Israel has controlled the flow of water to such a point that Palestinians are reduced to basically drinking sludge. The wall Israel is building will further cuts Palestine off from fresh water. Bushie and Israel like to pretend they are hated because their enemies hate freedom and Democracy. Many dumbed down people buy that absurd contention. It's examples like the water issue that show where the hatred comes from. Again it's Hamas that has moderated since being duly elected and it's a Hamas willingness to negotiate a 2 state solution that the hard liners in America and Israel cannot abide.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:19 am
Large number of civilians hurt in large barrage of missiles on Haifa, Israel

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1678743/posts

Quote:

Large number of civilians hurt in large barrage of missiles on Haifa, Israel
GAMLA: News and views from Israel ^ | Aug 6, 2006 | Z Lando

Posted on 08/06/2006 10:14:28 AM PDT by Challenge

http://www.gamla.org.il/english/news/index.htm

Large number of civilians hurt in large barrage of missiles on Haifa, Israel

GAMLA: News and Views from Israel

A large number of Katusha rockets have hits several buildings in Haifa. The Channel News 2 is now reporting, and it seems that at least one building has fallen with dozens of injured. They are hinting that many people are buried under the reckage.

They are repoting that the missiles shot were not regular Katushas, but with a much larger amount of explosives.

Needless to say, these missiles were shot on purpose to hit and kill as many civilians as possible.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:22 am
My GUESS would be that Israel is running short on options at this point, and can no longer really afford any scruples over how many Lebanese they might or might not end up having to kill to put an end to the terrorism.

My advice to anybody living in Lebanon at this point would be simple:

Leave....
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:23 am
Foxfyre, Israeli Arabs are greatly discriminated against in Israel. They do not have anywhere near the same rights as Jewish Israelis. Iran's Jews live a peaceful and unhindered existence.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:29 am
blueflame1 wrote:
Foxfyre, Israeli Arabs are greatly discriminated against in Israel. They do not have anywhere near the same rights as Jewish Israelis. Iran's Jews live a peaceful and unhindered existence.


I know some Iranian Jews living here in Albuquerque. They don't share your notion that "Jews live a peaceful and unhindered existence in Iran".

As for treatment of Arabs in Israel:
Quote:

SOURCE
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