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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 02:00 pm
@ican711nm,
And after Israel agreed to pay for the damages with a "loan" from the US, everything was forgiven, everybody kissed and made up.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 03:06 pm
@InfraBlue,
Who comprises is this international community "that decided Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem is illegal?"

With whom did Israel agree to negotiate Jerusalem's final status with the Arab Palestinians?

What were Israel's conditions for proceding with those negotiations?

Obama can influence Israel to negotiate Jerusalem's final status with the Arab Palestinians by influencing the Arab Palestinians to grant Israel's right to exist in Palestine at least as recommended by the UN in 1947.

I recommend that Israel not proceed to negotiate Jerusalem's final status with the Palestinians until the Arab Palestinians explicitly grant Israel's right to exist in Palestine at least as recommended by the UN in 1947.

In past negotiations with the Arab Palestinians, Israel has agreed to give up land to the Arab Palestinians in return for an apparent Arab Palestinians agreement to cease their efforts to remove Israel from Palestine. However, the Arab Palestinians reneged on each such agreement.

Based on the behavior of the Arab Palestinians to date, if I were Netanyahu, I wouldn't trust the Arab Palestinian as far as I can throw the Empire State Building!
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 03:25 pm
@Foofie,
Give me a break. The jewish population of the U.S. and its finanicial and political power made it a certian that no wrong would be blamed on this isralie government for this "incident". The isralie government could assisinate the president and elements of the U.S. would claim it was just an accident. Why dont you people read the reports of the people who were on the scene. If that is it hasent been removed from the internet. The people who were there have a different version of what happened.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 08:53 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

So, after Netanyahu obstinately declared that Jerusalem belongs to Israel--despite the international community's stand that Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem is illegal, in the face of Israel's very own agreement to negotiate Jerusalem's final status with the Palestinians--what recourse does the Obama admin. have in dealing with this recalcitrant Israeli government, especially in light of the fact that Israel enjoys a high amount of support in the US from Jews and Christianists and other conservatives?


The "recourse" may be to admit humbly that four-thousand years of Jewish history has developed a degree of obstinacy that will only cause ill health for those that think they can dissuade Israel from thinking that Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 08:58 pm
@rabel22,
rabel22 wrote:

Give me a break. The jewish population of the U.S. and its finanicial and political power made it a certian that no wrong would be blamed on this isralie government for this "incident". The isralie government could assisinate the president and elements of the U.S. would claim it was just an accident. Why dont you people read the reports of the people who were on the scene. If that is it hasent been removed from the internet. The people who were there have a different version of what happened.


I would prefer to not give you "a break," since "you people" cannot see that Israel is a value to the U.S. over the 43 years since the Liberty incident, while 43 years after WWII the U.S. stopped much earlier in blaming Germans for Americans that died from WWII hostilities with the Germans. Just the usual double standard that Jews live with.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 10:22 am
Here is a good piece on the threats Israel faces from South Lebanon and Gaza.


Published: June 2, 2010
Updated: June 3, 2010 6:36 a.m.
Rabbi David Eliezrie: Israel must control its own security
By RABBI DAVID ELIEZRIE
President of the Rabbinical Council of Orange CountyStory Highlights
By displacing nearly 10,000 Jews from Gaza five years ago, Israel had hoped that it would become an oasis of hope and prosperity. Hamas has transformed it into a terrorist state.


If you want to find out why Israelis are worried about Gaza, all you have to do is take a look at South Lebanon. Hamas' ideological twin, Hezbollah, is in control. In the wake of the recent war, the UN promised to ensure that Hezbollah would not rearm. Today they are bristling with thousands of missiles, many that can reach deep into Israel with the potential to strike Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. They arrive overland via Syria and by sea along the Lebanese coast. Many observers fear the arms buildup by Hezbollah could lead to a deadly conflict this summer in Israel's north.

Hamas is not as strong as Hezbollah. Israel's embargo blocked sophisticated weapons. Still, it has launched over 7,000 missiles into Israel in recent years. This week there were several attempts. Their weaponry is primitive, the range just 10 or 20 miles; however, if you live in places like the border town of Sderot, you live under constant fear. If the embargo is lifted in Gaza, arms will flow from Iran to Gaza like they do in Lebanon. The threat is not theoretical; Hamas has proven its intentions. Its charter states that its goal is not just to annihilate Israel, but Jews the world over.


Rabbi David Eliezrie: Israel must control its own security.

Imagine if al-Qaida was camped out in Tijuana and Iran was shipping them missiles. Would the U.S. Coast Guard allow the importation? Would the Obama administration stand by as a terrorist group armed itself with lethal weapons that could reach as far as Los Angeles? American military is on the ground in Afghanistan. Drones search out al-Qaida over Pakistan to prevent terrorist groups from threatening the U.S. Should Israel be able to protect its borders?

Almost five years ago, Israel left Gaza. They dismantled Jewish communities and forced close to 10,000 Jews to relocate. The claim by then Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was that Israel would show the world they wanted peace. Israeli military leaders opposed the move saying it would endanger Israeli security. Today, it's clear this was a major mistake. Sharon hoped the Arabs would seize the opportunity to create an oasis of hope and prosperity. Instead, Hamas created a terrorist state.

Lacking control over the territory, Israel cannot prevent Gaza from becoming a center of hostility that could lead to war. At the least it can control is border to limit arms shipment.

Israel has learned the hard way that diplomatic concessions only empower an enemy whose goal is the eradication of the Jewish State. More concessions will only increase Israel's vulnerability. Some are pushing Israel to leave the West Bank and create another Palestinian entity. Clearly, that is an untenable idea. Withdrawing from the mountain tops in the West Bank that dominate the coastal plain will create a third front in the war of attrition that the Arabs are waging. Instead of border towns, the urban centers of Israel will be under direct missile range.

The incidents of the last few days have shown Israelis two important things: First, they cannot depend on other nations to ensure their security. The UN failed miserably in preventing the reaming of Hezbollah. The immediate condemnation of Israel's defending itself by nations worldwide prove, yet again, that there is a double standard for the Jewish state. Second, concessions only empower the Arabs to demand more and put Israel at greater risk.

Leaving Lebanon created an opportunity for Hezbollah to dominate that country; leaving Gaza was an entry to Hamas. These two groups share the Iran's aspirations to destroy Israel. Time and again Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has threatened to destroy Israel. He is arming these groups to further his goal. The Jewish community has learned that we should take our enemies at their word. In 1940, we made the profound mistake of not taking the threats of another despot seriously. The result was the death of six million Jews. Hamas is promising the same. Is Israel supposed to allow it to import the arms to fulfill its goals?



Rabbi David Eliezrie is the president of the Rabbinical Council of Orange County. His email is [email protected]
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 11:19 am
@Advocate,
The threats that Israel faces from Southern Lebanon and Gaza, and its other neighbors for that matter, are of its own creation. The solution is glaringly simple. If Israel is ever to experience true peace amongst its neighbors it must end its oppression of the Palestinian peoples, and return the territories it has arrogated (in defense of that oppression) to their respective claimants.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 12:44 pm
@InfraBlue,
As a reply to every peace proposal from Israel, the Pals have insisted on a total right of return, which would eliminate Israel. I see no sign of the Pals backing down from this.
rabel22
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 01:57 pm
@Advocate,
Like the Isrelie president who OK'ed the attack on the relief convey so he wouldent have to talk to Obama about peace. The present government dosent want peace which is apparent from thier actions.
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 02:17 pm
@rabel22,
I see you are another lying biased hypocrite. On one of six ships, the Israeli boarders were attacked with iron rods, knives, and sticks, and it is all on video. Only then did the boarders use pistols in defense. Israel, the recipient of 8,000 rockets, missiles, and shells is right in checking incoming ships.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 02:21 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

I see you are another lying biased hypocrite. On one of six ships, the Israeli boarders were attacked with iron rods, knives, and sticks, and it is all on video. Only then did the boarders use pistols in defense. Israel, the recipient of 8,000 rockets, missiles, and shells is right in checking incoming ships.


Israel doesn't have the right to board ships under arms in international waters.

Even if they did want to 'check' these ships, there are a wide variety of ways to do so that don't involve armed invasion of a ship. Think about it for a second.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 03:00 pm
@InfraBlue,
Infrablue wrote:
The threats that Israel faces from Southern Lebanon and Gaza, and its other neighbors for that matter, are of its own creation. The solution is glaringly simple. If Israel is ever to experience true peace amongst its neighbors it must end its oppression of the Palestinian peoples, and return the territories it has arrogated (in defense of that oppression) to their respective claimants.

Yes, Israel, by creating itself in 1948 in response to the UN's 1947 resolution, simultaneously created the threats from Southern Lebanon and Gaza, and its other neighbors.

Israel is not oppressing the Palestinian people. Israel is simply trying to survive the attempts since 1948 by some of the Palestinian people, call 'em sotpp, to oppress Israel.

The sotpp attempting to oppress Israel are causing pain not only to Israelies but also to the rest of the Palestinian people. Based on whatever their reasons, the sotpp attempting to oppress Israel appear to believe that they are entitled to rule all of Palestine, regardless of the fact that their Palestinian Arab forebears were conquered in 1099 by the Crusaders and not by the Jews living in Palestine. At no time since 1099 did the Palestinian Arabs reconquer Palestine.

All the Palestinian Arabs have to do to live in peace is prevent the sotpp from trying to suppress Israel. Furthermore, if the Palestinian Arabs were to achieve that, Israel would give them back some of the land the Israelies conquered in response to sotpp efforts to conquer Israel.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 03:04 pm
@rabel22,
rabel22 wrote:

Give me a break. The jewish population of the U.S. and its finanicial and political power made it a certian that no wrong would be blamed on this isralie government for this "incident". The isralie government could assisinate the president and elements of the U.S. would claim it was just an accident. Why dont you people read the reports of the people who were on the scene. If that is it hasent been removed from the internet. The people who were there have a different version of what happened.


Spoken like a good antiSemite who cannot spell.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 03:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Israel doesn't have the right to board ships under arms in international waters.

Even if they did want to 'check' these ships, there are a wide variety of ways to do so that don't involve armed invasion of a ship. Think about it for a second.

Israel DOES have the right to board ships whose destination is Gaza, under arms in international waters, in order to protect itself from those who seek to elininate it.

Israel's alternative is to prevent ships from reaching Gaza! That can only be achieved with the use of worse force than boarding ships.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 03:12 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Israel doesn't have the right to board ships under arms in international waters.

Even if they did want to 'check' these ships, there are a wide variety of ways to do so that don't involve armed invasion of a ship. Think about it for a second.

Israel DOES have the right to board ships whose destination is Gaza, under arms in international waters, in order to protect itself from those who seek to elininate it.


I'm sorry, but they do not have that right. You are simply incorrect.

Quote:
Israel's alternative is to prevent ships from reaching Gaza! That can only be achieved with the use of worse force than boarding ships.


They can - and have - prevented ships from reaching Gaza in a variety of ways which endangered no human life. So this is incorrect as well.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 04:01 pm
Even more than being non-allowed, the actions were just plain stupid. Whoever was commanding that infil team ought to be strung up.

http://www.cnas.org/files/u16/aDbBc0.png

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 04:54 pm
The Israeli helicopter pilots let the Israeli soldiers down on the ship where they could find space on the ship to do so. They did not anticipate that the passengers aboard the ship would try to beat up the Israeli soldiers when they came down.

Shame on the Israeli helicopter pilots? Hell no! Shame on the passengers for trying to beat up the Israeli soldiers. Those passengers were not under any risk of harm until they tried to beat up the Israeli soldiers.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 05:00 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

The Israeli helicopter pilots let the Israeli soldiers down on the ship where they could find space on the ship to do so. They did not anticipate that the passengers aboard the ship would try to beat up the Israeli soldiers when they came down.

Shame on the Israeli helicopter pilots? Hell no! Shame on the passengers for trying to beat up the Israeli soldiers. Those passengers were not under any risk of harm until they tried to beat up the Israeli soldiers.


The Israeli soldiers should have expected it. When someone breaks into your property - which is what they did - they should expect to be resisted with maximum prejudice. Don't you agree?

Not shame on the pilots, shame on the idiots who planned the whole thing. Israel now looks foolish and it has actively harmed them.

Cycloptichorn
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 05:34 pm
@Advocate,
Well pal you did it again! When you cant argue the facts you call me a antisemite who cannot spell. Your only half right. I cant spell worth a damn but I can read and reason for myself rather than accept the bullshyt you accept as truth. You are brainwashed!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 06:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
When someone breaks into your property - which is what they did - they should expect to be resisted with maximum prejudice. Don't you agree?

Defenders landing on one's ship are not breaking into one's property. Asking one to show that one is not carrying weapons when in the past one has been carrying weapons, is logical and responsible.

Better that Israel be logical and responsible than worry how it looks, or go along to get along!
0 Replies
 
 

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