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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
JTT
 
  3  
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 05:50 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
Standing in judgement of Israel does not make a logical argument. It just makes an emotional judgement that one may think Israel may be a bad boy. But, tell me how many centuries did Britain treat Ireland like a vassal state? Is it fun to throw stones in a glass house?


Always a real winner, that argument, Foofie.

All the Israelis misdeeds are forgiven because I can point to someone who was worse in number.

You may have a good idea there for reducing the US prison population. Everyone simply needs to point to the worst of the worst and then you only have to jail one guy.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 06:24 pm
@JTT,
Israel is trying to survive as a Jewish state.

MF (i.e., Muslim Fanatics) are trying to destroy Israel as a Jewish state.

Israel has two choices:
(1) Give up trying to survive as a Jewish state;
(2) Try to destroy the MF.

The MF have two choices:
(1) Try to destroy Israel;
(2) Give up trying to destroy Israel.

I recommend the MF give up trying to destroy Israel, so Israel can survive as a Jewish state and not try to destroy the MF.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 06:28 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Standing in judgement of Israel does not make a logical argument. It just makes an emotional judgement that one may think Israel may be a bad boy. But, tell me how many centuries did Britain treat Ireland like a vassal state? Is it fun to throw stones in a glass house?


Always a real winner, that argument, Foofie.

All the Israelis misdeeds are forgiven because I can point to someone who was worse in number.

You may have a good idea there for reducing the US prison population. Everyone simply needs to point to the worst of the worst and then you only have to jail one guy.


You are not getting my point. L'il 'ole Israel may not be the nicest kid on the block; however, the degree to which their shenanigans gets the masses salivating is totally out of proportion to the involvement they have amongst the world's bad boys. Amazingly, the world's masses ignores much of the shenanigans of bigger bullies and and bigger bad boys. Why? It might just have to do with the love of criticizing Jews! Remember, without Jews in the world Christians and Muslims can fight it out for each to claim they were the first to discover the one monotheistic God; Jews can be conveniently forgotten in the mist of time. I also believe there is a collective phobia against Jews, since if Jews ever lived in peace to the point of becoming a population of 100 million or so, some people might feel threatened as to where their respective group stands on the human bellcurve. Not nice to say, perhaps offensive, but possibly a strong dose of truth.
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 07:13 pm
@Foofie,
I am an american citizen and ive been p o'ed at the isralie government since they tried to kill 250 american sailors in international waters to cover up the fact that they were about to launch another preemtive invasion. You do remember the USS Liberty dont you Foofie?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 09:13 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
You are not getting my point. L'il 'ole Israel may not be the nicest kid on the block; however, the degree to which their shenanigans gets the masses salivating is totally out of proportion to the involvement they have amongst the world's bad boys. Amazingly, the world's masses ignores much of the shenanigans of bigger bullies and and bigger bad boys. Why?


I don't but you're right, a lot of people do. People who would express major shock at a couple of at home murders simply turn a blind eye to the murder of hundreds of thousands even millions. You do this yourself.

But I understand your point precisely and I addressed it for what it was worth, nothing. You can't absolve one by pointing one worse.

[/quote]It might just have to do with the love of criticizing Jews! Remember, without Jews in the world Christians and Muslims can fight it out for each to claim they were the first to discover the one monotheistic God; Jews can be conveniently forgotten in the mist of time. I also believe there is a collective phobia against Jews, since if Jews ever lived in peace to the point of becoming a population of 100 million or so, some people might feel threatened as to where their respective group stands on the human bellcurve. Not nice to say, perhaps offensive, but possibly a strong dose of truth.[/quote]

Again, I'm sure you're right that a large number of people still hate Jews and even more would come out of the woodwork given the opportunity. I guess that's the real test of a person of worth. Would one stand up for any group being persecuted?

Right now it's the Israelis who are persecuting, torturing, assassinating and doing things illegal for which they should be punished.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 09:16 pm
@rabel22,
Do you get as po'ed at the US government for the millions that have died at their hand, Rabel?

Was the USS "Liberty" involved in depriving two to three million Vietnamese of their liberty?
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 01:07 am
@JTT,
Yes I do. I havent agreed with most of the stupid wars we have fought in the last 40 years. But as you are bltantely anti american I would ask you if you agreed with the fact that Austrlia tried to destroy the natives of that country? The only war I even partly agree with is the Afgan war. And the point of the liberty was that we cant trust our so called Isralie allies either there or here in the U. S.. They are far too willing to sacrifice American lives for thier so called religious homeland.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 09:07 am
@rabel22,

rabel22 wrote:

I am an american citizen and ive been p o'ed at the isralie government since they tried to kill 250 american sailors in international waters to cover up the fact that they were about to launch another preemtive invasion. You do remember the USS Liberty dont you Foofie?


I remember the incident, which was clearly an accident in the heat of war. The ship was largely unmarked, and the flag was hanging due to lack of wind. Since the battle with Egypt, et al., had already started, there was no pre-launch cover up as you allege.

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 12:06 pm
@rabel22,
rabel22 wrote:

I am an american citizen and ive been p o'ed at the isralie government since they tried to kill 250 american sailors in international waters to cover up the fact that they were about to launch another preemtive invasion. You do remember the USS Liberty dont you Foofie?


I am an American too (and a veteran). I was in the military when the Liberty incident occurred. Being a young person at that time, I did not really understand it. Years later I see that there are many different interpretations as to what occurred. Some opinions even think that American jet fighters where called back and for whatever reason allowed the incident to unfold as it did?

You can be p o'ed at the Israeli government for whatever reason you choose. You do not even have to like Jews of any nationality. And, yes, in my opinion, Israel like most other nations are concerned about their own welfare.

While I do not think it was nice to attack the Liberty for any reason, and proves that Israel is not an ally like Britain is, in my opinion, I am aware that this country lost 650,000 military, during the 20th century, fighting wars in behalf of other nations, while Israel never asked the U.S. to lose one American life fighting in any of the four wars they had in the 20th century.

So, while Israel may have proven themselves to not be stalwart allies like, I believe Britain is, I try to see that they at least did not need us to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of American lives to fight their wars.

But, if it gives you solace to not like Israel, that is fine. Israel means different things to different people, even those who like Israel. I do though believe there is more emotion tied to an incident like the Liberty than perhaps what Nazi Germany did to us, or Imperial Japan, Israel being a euphemism for Jewland in many people's minds.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 12:52 pm
@rabel22,
First, let's get this settled once and for all. I am not Anti-American. If I was, I couldn't say that I actually like you and a large large number of other Americans. I am solidly Anti-what America all too often does.

There have been far too many innocents that have died solely because of the greed of a large rapacious portion of the USA and the wants of these people have been fed by the US military.

No, I most certainly don't agree with any group of people trying to destroy any other group of people, be it Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, Australia, France, ... .

The Afghan situation is not a war, it too is an illegal invasion. The Taliban agreed to give up ObL, even to Clinton.

Quote:

Diplomats Met With Taliban on Bin Laden
Some Contend U.S. Missed Its Chance

By David B.Ottaway and Joe Stephens
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, October 29, 2001; Page A01


Over three years and on as many continents, U.S. officials met in public and secret at least 20 times with Taliban representatives to discuss ways the regime could bring suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden to justice.

Talks continued until just days before the Sept. 11 attacks, and Taliban representatives repeatedly suggested they would hand over bin Laden if their conditions were met, sources close to the discussions said.

http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/US_met_taliban.htm



Why do you feel that Afghanistan should have been invaded when the USA harbors many terrorists itself, even its own government officials, presidents included? The USA has installed brutal dictators numerous times over its history. Why are you silent on these?

Things that go around just have to come around. That's a fact of life. The CIA said it long ago.

Quote:
They are far too willing to sacrifice American lives for thier so called religious homeland.


The USA is far far too willing to sacrifice the lives of any number of innocents just to advance their own greedy interests. Isn't this at least as bad considering the numbers number in the millions?

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 12:57 pm
@Foofie,
You have an uncanny ability to twist things in whatever fashion is necessary to placate your little mind, Foofie.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 06:27 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

You have an uncanny ability to twist things in whatever fashion is necessary to placate your little mind, Foofie.


What an adorable dismissal of any of my previous points. Alpha males are known to have the right to dismiss what they prefer not to address. I guess I should be deferent to an alpha male, since I am neither alpha nor beta.

What your arguments do not allow for is any other moral compass other than your own, in my opinion. Therefore, your arguments often fall into judgements based on your own moral compass which you do share with many people in the world. But, that does not make you right. It just makes you judgemental from a particular set of beliefs.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 11:09 pm
@Advocate,
Perhaps if you read a factual article about the happening rather than an Isralie cover story you might find it was no accident. Three torpedo boats and many jet aircraft attacked the Liberty. It was no accident. It was an act of war that was ignored by all our politicians and the military. As I said a coverup.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 02:02 pm
@rabel22,
Perhaps if you, rabel22, read and recognized what was a factual article about the Israeli attack on the Liberty, rather than an anti-Israeli propaganda story, you might understand it was simply an Israeli military intelligence error. Three torpedo boats and many jet aircraft attacked the Liberty falsely thinking it was a ship of a Palestinian Arab ally.
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 03:35 pm
@ican711nm,
In a word bullshit. I have delved into all the information that wasent whitewashed by Washington and Telavive and it was no accident. They attacked the liberty untill they realized the liberty had gotten out a message and rather than take a chance on fighting U.S aircraft they broke off. Ive read it all, not just what the powers that be want you to read. This was whitewashed by our washington politicians.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 04:14 pm
The attack on the Liberty was an accident -- Israel had no motive to attack a US ship, unless they mistook it to be Egyptian.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 04:17 pm
@rabel22,
Rabel22, the Israelis had and have zero motivativation to attack any American ship. They had and have huge motivation to avoid attacking any American ship. The Israelis simply screwed up believing the Liberty was a ship belonging to their enemies.

Wise up!
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 05:05 pm
@rabel22,
rabel22 wrote:

In a word bullshit. I have delved into all the information that wasent whitewashed by Washington and Telavive and it was no accident. They attacked the liberty untill they realized the liberty had gotten out a message and rather than take a chance on fighting U.S aircraft they broke off. Ive read it all, not just what the powers that be want you to read. This was whitewashed by our washington politicians.


Do you have a rationale for why there was a "whitewashing" by Washington politicians, as you claim above? If there was a "whitewashing" then a logical conclusion is that Washington may not always have the same agenda as what John Q. Citizen would prefer as Washington's agenda.

Does the U.S. have an ethical right to conduct itself in the manner that it did, and not suffer any consequences for wanting a ring-side seat for electronic intelligence gathering, in a war that could be thought of as not its business? In other words, it might just be that when one has the U.S. as an ally, there are strings attached. And, perhaps, Israel did not trust the U.S. with any intelligence the U.S. might have gathered? It might not have been the "fog of war," but the "fog of mistrust"?

Wikipedia has a fairly good write-up under "USS Liberty Incident."

Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 06:03 pm
Both the Israeli and U.S. governments concluded that the attack was a mistake, based on confusion over the identity of the ship. The Israel haters will never accept this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 09:44 am
So, after Netanyahu obstinately declared that Jerusalem belongs to Israel--despite the international community's stand that Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem is illegal, in the face of Israel's very own agreement to negotiate Jerusalem's final status with the Palestinians--what recourse does the Obama admin. have in dealing with this recalcitrant Israeli government, especially in light of the fact that Israel enjoys a high amount of support in the US from Jews and Christianists and other conservatives?
 

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