@InfraBlue,
ican711nm wrote:The 13 true reasons are more than sufficient to justify the USA invasion of Iraq.
InfraBlue wrote:Says you!
Why don't you, InfraBlue, say so too?
@ican711nm,
Let's just look at a few reasons:
Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;
There are, to this day, members of al Qaida in the USA.
Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
The USA continues to aid and harbor international terrorist organizations, [even the US's highest officials] including those that not only threaten the lives and safety of any number of countries citizens but actually cause them death, great pain and property destruction.
Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;
An admission that your elected officials are terrorists and that your country makes public its laws supporting the illegal overthrow of sovereign nations, more acts of terrorism, is not something you want to be broadcasting.
Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;
Start at home. Get rid of all the terrorists that you harbor and support. Jail all those officials within your own country, presidents included, that have been involved in terrorist activities against other nations and the problem would pretty much go away. This is all blowback, something that the CIA warned you guys about many years ago.
Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;
"property wrongfully seized", that's a good one. Let's count up the plunder taken from innumerable countries around the world under the watchful eye of the US military.
When you invoke the UNSC in your excuses, you might consider allowing that the UNSC did not authorize the illegal invasion of Iraq.
Whereas it is in the national security interests of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region:
This was just kinda thrown in as a joke, right?
It is not a question of whether there will be another Hamas v. Israel war, but it is when it will happen.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/me_hamas0862_11_05.asp
@JTT,
JTT, regardless of the fact al-Qaeda probably is currently in the US, we had good reason to try to rid Afghanistan and Iraq of al-Qaeda. Our success, limited success, partial failure, or failure in that is reason for adopting and investing in more effective methods for ridding al-Qaeda from these countries. It is not reason for abandoning Afghanistan and Iraq to al-Qaeda. One thing is certain! What we did do, did not result in any terrorist attacks within the USA since 9/11.
JTT wrote:The USA continues to aid and harbor international terrorist organizations, [even the US's highest officials] including those that not only threaten the lives and safety of any number of countries citizens but actually cause them death, great pain and property destruction.
An admission that your elected officials are terrorists and that your country makes public its laws supporting the illegal overthrow of sovereign nations, more acts of terrorism, is not something you want to be broadcasting.
Start at home. Get rid of all the terrorists that you harbor and support. Jail all those officials within your own country, presidents included, that have been involved in terrorist activities against other nations and the problem would pretty much go away. This is all blowback, something that the CIA warned you guys about many years ago.
"property wrongfully seized", that's a good one. Let's count up the plunder taken from innumerable countries around the world under the watchful eye of the US military.
When you invoke the UNSC in your excuses, you might consider allowing that the UNSC did not authorize the illegal invasion of Iraq.
JTT, these comments of yours rate as low on the truth scale as al-Qaeda's.
@ican711nm,
I've no doubt that someone as delusional as you could draw that conclusion, Ican't.
@ican711nm,
It is a joke to say that Bush prevented attacks on the USA after 9/11. First, he is largely at fault for 9/11, doing nothing after getting serious warnings about planes being used in an attack on us. Second, there were no attacks during the Clinton terms (actually 8.5 years) following the first attack on the Twin Towers, and that was before Home Security. I guess Clinton kept us from being attacked.
@Advocate,
You better watch yourself. Defending Clinton will cause you to be labeled a communist or even worse a liberal.
@Advocate,
Clinton kept us from being attacked after the 1993 World Trade Building attack, after US embassies were attacked, and after the Destroyer Cole was attacked. He even warned Bush of an imminent attack. Bush, the dummy, didn't know how to stop us from being attacked 9/11. He lucked out, afterward that there were no additional attacks on the US. Had he stayed the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq, he could have emulated Clinton by authorizing air raids against al-Qaeda too. Then we could have seen what good that would have done,
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PERTINENT EXCERPTS FROM THE KORAN
Quote:
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-koran?specfile=%2Flv2%2Fenglish%2Frelig%2Fkoran%2Fwww%2Fkoran.o2w&query=wherever+you+find+them&docs=text&sample=1-100&grouping=work
Chapter 2: The Cow : 2.190: And
fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
Chapter 2: The Cow : 2.191: And
kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Chapter 2: The Cow : 2.217: They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and
whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever -- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.
Chapter 4: The Women : 4.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then
seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
Chapter 4: The Women : 4.91: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then
seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.
Chapter 9: The Immunity : 9.5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then
slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Chapter 9: The Immunity : 9.123: O you who believe!
fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil) .
This is one of the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist
situation I have ever read. His references to past history are
accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the
read. The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanay, a well-known
and well-respected psychiatrist.
A German's View on Islam
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II,
owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many
German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our
attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he
said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more
were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis
were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all
happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost
control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost
everything I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies
destroyed my factories.'
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that
Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims
just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may
be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant
to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of
fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.
It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of
50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically
slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are
gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is
the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the
fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who
zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and
homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to
become suicide bombers.
The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the
'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous.
Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live
in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder
of about _20 million people_. The peaceful majority were irrelevant.
China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists
managed to kill a staggering _70 million people_.
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a
warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way
across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the
systematic murder of _12 million Chinese civilians_; most killed by
sword, shovel, and bayonet.
And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it
not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all
our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated
of points:
Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.
Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up,
because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and
find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will
have begun.
Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs,
Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and
many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up
until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must
pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who
threaten our way of life.
Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just
deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the
passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, _extend yourself
a bit _and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands,
world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before
it's too late.
@Advocate,
Dr. Emanuel Tanay's article is not only worth the read, it is worth the study and the changes in our own behavior required when we are confronted by fanatics. The majority cannot afford to "just sat back and let it all happen."
Quote:The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.
It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of
50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically
slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are
gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is
the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the
fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who
zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and
homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to
become suicide bombers.
The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the
'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous.
These fanatics cannot be turned away from their fanaticism by us preaching and proclaiming platitudes. They must be confronted and exterminated to end their fanatical attacks on the rest of us.
@ican711nm,
It is a very fine balance on what the West should do. For instance, up to now, our approach to the ME countries was to occupy, shell, and bomb them to win them over. This, of course, merely turns the people against us. Iraq is a great example of this. When we first went in, we were warmly welcome. When we begain to throw our weight around in a deadly manner, crashing into homes, etc., the people quickly turned against us.
@Advocate,
After the Surge by our military and its success, the people quickly turned for us, not wanting us to leave before 2011.
Quote:The talk in Israel, explicit and open " including in the country's leading daily, Haaretz, last week " is about a war in the coming spring or summer. The skies will have cleared for air operations, Israel's missile shields against short- and medium-range rockets will at least be partly operational, and the international community, led by President Obama, will palpably have failed to stymie Iran's nuclear weapons programme. And the Iranians will be that much closer to a bomb
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/24/obama-nuclear-spring-israel-iran
Benny Morris, a history professor at Ben-Gurion University, saying that if Obama cannot stop Iran developing a viable bomb, then Israel will have to.
He paints a bleak picture:
"These will probably include massive rocketing of Israel's cities and military bases by the Iranians and Hezbollah (from Lebanon), and possibly by Hamas (from Gaza). This could trigger land wars in Lebanon and Gaza as well as a protracted long-range war with Iran. It could see terrorism by Iranian agents against Israeli (and Jewish) targets around the world; a steep increase in world oil prices, which will rebound politically against Israel; and Iranian action against American targets in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Gulf. More generally, Islamist terrorism against western targets could only grow."
@ican711nm,
Quote:These fanatics cannot be turned away from their fanaticism by us preaching and proclaiming platitudes. They must be confronted and exterminated to end their fanatical attacks on the rest of us.
Funny, that exactly what they think. Now, consider for just a brief moment the amount of time their military units have spent in England, the USA, etc. compared to the opposite.
Consider it honestly and fairly, rid yourself of that "they hate our freedom" nonsense.
How could a sentient being have ever even considered such utter trash.
@JTT,
You are asking the impossible. I've come to the conclusion that some people are incapable of seeing things from anyone's point of view but there own, or their favourite television station's.
@Endymion,
Are you, Endymion, one of those people who is "incapable of seeing things from anyone's point of view but there own, or their favourite television station's?"
PERTINENT EXCERPTS FROM THE KORAN
Quote:
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-koran?specfile=%2Flv2%2Fenglish%2Frelig%2Fkoran%2Fwww%2Fkoran.o2w&query=wherever+you+find+them&docs=text&sample=1-100&grouping=work
Chapter 2: The Cow : 2.190: And
fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you , and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
Chapter 2: The Cow : 2.191: And
kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Chapter 2: The Cow : 2.217: They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and
whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever -- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.
Chapter 4: The Women : 4.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but
if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
Chapter 4: The Women : 4.91: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then
seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.
Chapter 9: The Immunity : 9.5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then
slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Chapter 9: The Immunity : 9.123: O you who believe!
fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil) .
Endymion, do you really think the people who are followers of these passages in the Koran can be persuaded not to murder whoever they are persuaded are apostates or infidels?
@ican711nm,
thank for asking me this, man. it might seem strange to you but i don't understand your brain.
ps.. i don't have a television.
they lie to us, man
@ican711nm,
Even with all this incitement to murder and mayhem they only seem to have been able to murder a miniscule number compared to the USA, Britain, France, etc.
@JTT,
Since when is the murder of well over 100,000 civilians by the terrorists a "miniscule number" compared to the much smaller number murdered by the USA, Britain, France, etc.
Quote:
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
94,279 " 102,879
[Civilian deaths from suicide attacks and vehicle bombs and executions]
...
Monthly table
2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
Jan 3 569 1048 1433 2807 744 276
Feb 2 604 1203 1449 2536 1011 343
Mar 3976 957 786 1790 2616 1540 416
Apr 3437 1256 1026 1591 2436 1261 484
May 545 619 1226 2105 2771 761 333
Jun 593 833 1216 2427 2094 672 488
Jul 650 762 1444 3160 2572 586 395
Aug 790 823 2165 2744 2333 592 593
Sep 553 942 1330 2409 1225 536 299
Oct 493 947 1201 2925 1187 528 148
Nov 478 1532 1208 2982 1053 473
Dec 529 907 996 2680 905 522
12,049+10,751+14,849+27,695+24,535+9,226+3,775 = 102,880
