ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

What really is a bit ironic: an Arabian-owned shipyard should built two warships for Israel, being equipped with a weapon system made in USA, all paid by Germany ...

It will happen.

Cut the crap!

First, you Palestinian Arabs must declare what are your conditions for officially recognizing Israel's right to exist. Second, you Israelis must declare whether or not you will accept those conditions. If not, you Israelis must state what conditions you will accept.

Walter, you can certainly provide links to the most colourful of sources. And often do.

Could you explain please, or provide a link (Maybe I could look on Der Spiegel) why Germany is to provide warships under these terme to Israel?

terms

No, not really. It's just a kind of paying back debts, I suppose ...

In my opinion, it is not "a kind of paying back debts," since Germany did not gain anything, to be paid back, for the implementation of the Final Solution.

I cannot even think it is to assuage any guilt, since I am a cynic about Germany having authentic remorse for the Final Solution.

So, I come to the conclusion that in my opinion it is to give the civilized world a better image of Germany in the 21st century. Pure purchasing of good will from the world community, I believe.

Let us not forget the psychological defense mechanism of reaction formation. As I understand it, we may project our own traits onto someone else, since we do not want to admit we possess those traits. So, lavishing Israel with costly items as these, might be thought of as a good work, since money is what Germany is very concerned about (and historically, under the Nazis, was what Jews were supposed to be so avaricious about). Does anyone remember Joel Gray's song in Cabaret, "Money Makes the World Go Round"?

If you're right, Foofie, this would be remarkably similar to the USA with the millions that it has slaughtered since around the start of the 20th century, and never, ever, any sense of remorse, not even feigned remorse.

The USA agreed to give Nam hundreds of millions, but gave nothing. We killed over three million there.

First, the Palestinian Arabs must declare what are their conditions for officially recognizing Israel's right to exist.

Second, the Israelis must declare whether or not they will accept those conditions. If not, the Israelis must state what conditions they will accept.

Generally, setting preconditions is not the way nations negotiate. The parties should sit down together and negotiate an agreement.

Some very-obvious preconditions may be in order. For instance, Israel may state that it will not allow the return of all Pals (even those who never lived in Israel) since this would assure the demise of the state. The Pals might state that no more settlements should be established in the WB.

The official recognition by the Palestinian Arabs of Israel's right to exist is a necessary and non-negotiable condition for any subsequent conditions to be negotiated by the Israelis. Failure of the Israelis to obtain that condition from the Palestinian Arabs will make all subsequent negotiations meaningless for the Israelis.

The reason that I do not subscribe to the above analogy is because: a) those killed in wars by the U.S. were supposed to be enemy combatants. b) The Jews killed in the Final Solution were killed for genocidal reasons based on a mythology of racial inferiority.

And, if you think that America should have remorse for the enemy combatants killed in any U.S. wars, you have the right to believe that. However, to equate any lack of remorse by America for killing FOREIGN enemy combatants, to any lack of remorse for a country (Nazi Germany) disenfranchising one group of citizens from its citizenship and then killing them, they are not moral equivalents.

And, if you are aware of the Final Solution history, any country that the Nazis invaded required assistance from that country's citizens to round up the Jews there for eventual extermination. So, notice the little remorse in other countries regarding the disappearance of a prior Jewish community. My point is that Germany was not a monster. They just utilized the very fertile ground of European anti-Semitism to operate its Final Solution. The level of anti-Semitism was equal in many countries to that the Nazis espoused. Only a few countries resisted the Nazis attempts to round up the Jews; I believe Denmark was one that made a very effective effort. Spain, under Franco, made an effort in getting Jews to safety. I believe there are a few other instances; however, in the main, European anti-Semitism had been part of many a culture for a good thousand years.

So, not to bore anyone anymore on this topic, the U.S. targeted enemy combatants in its wars. Nazi Germany did not target Jews as enemy combatants, but as a supposedly inferior race in its racial pseudo science. Why it may appear to some that Germany does not have authentic remorse only reflects perhaps that the remnants of anti-Semitism may still exist. Just look at the anti-Semitic propaganda that is in some Arab capitals. If the propaganda was just anti-Israel, it would not refer to Jews world-wide.

And to all a good night!

The US also targeted/targets non-combatant foreigners in its invasions.

Watch out for the Salafis, who make the Hamas look downright liberal. They are making more inroads in the ME, including Gaza, than are AQ.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=aUoNgl6ipurk

What, do you think, Taliban, Al-Qâ’ida, Ahl-i Hadith, Jaish-e Muhammad, Sipah-e Sahaba, Tablighi Jamaat ... Fatah al-Islam are but Salafis?
(There are dozens of different contemporary self-proclaimed Salafist groups who disapprove of each other and deny the others Salafi character, though.)

Poppycock! And, an example of what you claim reflects our assisting the Brits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebombing_of_Dresden
Britain seemed to find the U.S. effort acceptable then. Is your memory selective?

How did you become an expert on Salafis? They don't make the news very often.

Can't you tell the difference between the need to confront a threat such as posed by the Nazis, and the invasion of Iraq?

I think you can.

What is your point?

Well, that's your opinion.


Since 1991, when Germany donated the first two of several submarines, it has always been said by Israel (and Germany) that such was done because "Germany has a historic responsibility to help Israel because of the mass murder of Jews in World War II".


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re those above mentioned two corvettes: sources say that before commissioning the warships from Germany, the Israeli Navy researched the market: after the US Lockheed Martin's product proved too pricey - $600 million apiece - purchasing agents opened negotiatons with the Hamburg shipbuilders Blohm and Voss. The initial plan was to have the order subcontracted to Haifa shipyards with Israel's aero industry and Navy installing the weapons systems and electronics. But in view of the spiraling tensions with Iran, Israel's high command decided to set about strengthening the country's marine defenses in the shortest time possible.