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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 11:34 pm
Quote:
[...] ...Mr Blair has being criticised publicly and privately by ministers and senior backbenchers, and has antagonised most members of the EU as well as the United Nations secretariat.

It emerged yesterday that he ignored not only the advice of the Foreign Office but foreign affairs specialists in Downing Street, who argued that the Israeli offensive was counter-productive and favoured a call for an immediate ceasefire.
[...]

Blair: You've misunderstood me over the Middle East
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 11:57 pm
Will Blair be removed? It makes no difference. The Israelis will continue until they are satisfied that they have carved out a large enough piece of territory so that the UN peace keepers can patrol it. The Israelis will, of course, carve out a large enough piece of land so that the Hezbollah cannot harass Israel on the ground or even with rocket attacks.

In the meantime, the Lebanese, who were the "hosts" for the maniacs from Hezbollah are learning that "you are either for us or against us"

As Olmert says--It will be very painful--Indeed!!!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 12:24 am
revel wrote:
I just find if hard to believe that Hezbollah has that much rockets or fighters to account for all the deaths of Lebanese citizens and destruction civilian infrastructure even if it is a fact and not a excuse that Hezbollah uses citizens and civilian communities as shields to turn the world against Israel.

Quote:
• More than 841 killed and 3243 wounded
• Many bodies still unfound under wreckage
• 1/3 of casualties are children & majority civilians
• More than 913,760 displaced
• Complete blockade of air, sea & land transport
• More than 60 bridges and 70 roads destroyed
• Beirut International airport, all national
airways and major Lebanese ports bombed
• Electrical power plants bombed
and related fuel tanks destroyed
• Complete destruction of all radars
• More than 20 gas and fuel stations destroyed
• Factories (food industries), warehouses, dams,
schools, TV & radio stations, churches, mosques,
hospitals, ambulances & civil defense centre
• Thousands of civilian houses destroyed
• Estimated cost of infrastructure hit exceeds
US$ 2 billion
• Reported Israeli use of Internationally-banned
bombs
• More than 10 thousand tons of heavy oil polute
more than 80 km of sea coast


(from the previous link)

About the Qana tragedy; it appears that at least one site of a bombing there was no Hazbollah rockets or fighters at the time.

Quote:
As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.


source

I believe that Israel (and others I assume from reading of opinions) believes that killing civilians and destroying civilian communities is a small price to pay to protect themselves.

It really does not matter if Hezballah is using it's citizens as human sacrifices or shields or not. The point is that it is Israeli bombs which are killing innocent Lebanese citizens and destroying Lebanon as a whole. Israeli lives are not more valuable than Lebanese lives no matter whose fault it is that they are in harms way. To keep things in perspective, remember that this all started only because two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped.


Hezbollah has been firing an average of 100 or more rockets at Israel's civilians since this thing started and lately have stepped up the rockets fired to 150 or more. We're now three weeks into the fighting. You do the math. And presumably Hezbollah has hundreds or thousands more and, if Israel does not take measures to prevent Syria and Iran from resupplying Hezbollah, they'll never run out of rockets or launchers.

Again, if Hezbollah was not intentionally seeking out civilian areas--areas where civilians are present--to fire their rockets, few if any civilians would be getting killed on the Lebanon side. They could put the rockets in the mountains, on the beach, in areas where the civilians have evacuated, but they don't. As I've said, I believe they WANT those civilians to get killed so they can use them as propaganda tools. There is simply no other explanation for Hezbollah deliberately putting their rocket launchers among them.

And yet your anger remains on Israel. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 12:33 am
The International Save the Children Alliance (and other organisations as well) tries to help those victims.

Report in today's Independent: Help save the children, victims of war
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 12:46 am
I agree, Mr. Hinteler. It is important to save the children. That is why I am sending my Congressman a letter asking him to give notice to Hezbollah that they can not place thier military equipment, especially rocker launchers, anywhere near dwellings where women and childen are living!!!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 01:08 am
BernardR wrote:
I agree, Mr. Hinteler. It is important to save the children. That is why I am sending my Congressman a letter asking him to give notice to Hezbollah that they can not place thier military equipment, especially rocker launchers, anywhere near dwellings where women and childen are living!!!


That certainly is another, differen form to help them.

I'm sure, the children will thankfully appreciate your good deed!
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 01:11 am
I will try, Mr. Walter Hinteler, but I am afraid that even my Congressman cannot persuade the Hezbollah to stop purposely placing their weapons close to the dwellings of women and children!
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 01:12 am
ican711nm wrote:
It is worth repeating here what Golda Meir is alleged to have said:
"The Arab Israeli conflict will continue as long as the arabs hate jews more than they love their own children."

I wonder what would happen if the Israelies were to come to hate the arabs more than they love their own children.

Whether you shoot at me or my children from a soldier's trench or from a child's nursery, I will shoot back until either you stop shooting, you kill me and my children, or I kill you.

To stop the carnage in Lebanon, stop Hezbollah from shooting at Israelies, because the Israelies will continue to shoot back at the Hezbollahs whereever they are, until the Hezbollahs stop shooting at the Israelies, or until all the Israelies are dead, or until all of the Hezbollahs are dead.


Accurate, but not so beautiful. Well, for militants that is.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 02:57 am
BernardR wrote:
I will try, Mr. Walter Hinteler, but I am afraid that even my Congressman cannot persuade the Hezbollah to stop purposely placing their weapons close to the dwellings of women and children!


Several reports from Qana a couple of days ago said there were no rocket launchers there.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 04:53 am
The Israeli military's report into its air strike on the Lebanese village of Qana on Sunday has concluded that the attack was a mistake.

The report said the house where the civilians were sheltering was thought to be a hiding place for Hezbollah militants and would not have been destroyed if Israeli officers had realised civilians were present.

On Sunday the Red Cross said 54 people, many of them children, died when the house they were sheltering in was hit by Israeli missiles.
Now a report from the US-based Human Rights Watch says the toll is lower. It said 28 bodies had been recovered and 13 people were still missing.

source: agencies, Israel Defense Forces Press Relase.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 05:23 am
Reminds me of the 500 that were supposedly massacred in a Palestinian camp by Israel....but recently the UN final report released tallied 20 something deaths instead of 500. Granted deaths are deaths, lies are lies and fog of war blah blah blah.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 05:31 am
Reminds me of other death children and how brain works with some.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 05:37 am
Brand X wrote:
Reminds me of the 500 that were supposedly massacred in a Palestinian camp by Israel....but recently the UN final report released tallied 20 something deaths instead of 500. Granted deaths are deaths, lies are lies and fog of war blah blah blah.


And at least nobody, not even the most anti-Israel of the UN, have suggested that Israel does not have the right to defend itself. Those fogs of war, however, include the fuzzy thinking that Israel's response should only be equal to Hezbollah's attacks.

I wonder if 'world opinion' would condemn Israel as much if Israel was providing an 'equal' response by firing rockets indiscriminately into Lebanese neighborhoods instead of going after the rocket launchers and resupply routes, a policy that has spared thousands and thousands of Lebanese lives? As Hezollah and Lebanon have not taken any measures to provide protection for their people, Israeli rockets would no doubt kill a lot of people. But at least the response would be 'proportionate'. Would that make everybody happier?

I cannot understand why the outrage isn't directed at Hezbollah who
1) Kidnapped the Israeli soldiers
2) Who has been firing rockets indiscriminately into Israeli neighborhoods
3) Who intentionally puts their rocket launchers in inhabited neighborhoods instead of evacuated areas or out of populated areas altogether
4) Who could stop this immediately with a cease fire and return of Israeli soldiers.

It is absolutely insane to be pressuring Israel for a cease fire while putting no pressure of any kind on Hezbollah.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 05:59 am
BernardR wrote:
Revel finds it hard to believe. Revel finds it hard to believe a lot. I ask Revel to find a video of Israelis cutting the throat of a reporter like the savage fanatics did when they murdered Mr.Pearl, an innocent reporter.

You have got to get this through your head, revel. The Israelis are the descendants of the people, the group, who were gassed and incinerated in the ovens of the death camps during World War II. The fanatic Islamists can moan and groan all they want. The Israelis will never let those fanatics kidnap their troops or bomb their villages without exacting a brutal punishment.

As Olmert said: It will be very very painful. It has been since 10 Lebanese have died for every Israeli.


Again, take a look:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6162397493278181614

There've been what appear to be nazi rallies or thinss indistinguishable therefrom in Lebanon since the hezbully takeover. The impression I get is that Lebanon itself and not just the hezbullies was in need of some sort of a major lesson in life.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 06:00 am
Foxy, remove the blinkers, do.
These rockets are like a peashooter compared with the Israeli military capability.
Lebanon is being smashed up, huge (additional) refugee problems are being deliberately created; and if the rockets stopped tomorrow, would Israel? Apparently not, if we take the Gaza comparison for example.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 06:06 am
gungasnake wrote:
BernardR wrote:
Revel finds it hard to believe. Revel finds it hard to believe a lot. I ask Revel to find a video of Israelis cutting the throat of a reporter like the savage fanatics did when they murdered Mr.Pearl, an innocent reporter.

You have got to get this through your head, revel. The Israelis are the descendants of the people, the group, who were gassed and incinerated in the ovens of the death camps during World War II. The fanatic Islamists can moan and groan all they want. The Israelis will never let those fanatics kidnap their troops or bomb their villages without exacting a brutal punishment.

As Olmert said: It will be very very painful. It has been since 10 Lebanese have died for every Israeli.


Again, take a look:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6162397493278181614

There've been what appear to be nazi rallies or thinss indistinguishable therefrom in Lebanon since the hezbully takeover. The impression I get is that Lebanon itself and not just the hezbullies was in need of some sort of a major lesson in life.


Gunga, if you're worried about militant Islam (as I am ) consider that the attack on Lebanon will strengthen and increase it, according to Haaretz.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 06:12 am
Some Israeli Attacks Amount to War Crimes

Quote:
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 06:14 am
The Ha'aretz piece referred to:

Israel's Gung-ho Leaders turn victory into calamity

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1835778,00.html
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 06:30 am
McTag wrote:
Foxy, remove the blinkers, do.
These rockets are like a peashooter compared with the Israeli military capability.
Lebanon is being smashed up, huge (additional) refugee problems are being deliberately created; and if the rockets stopped tomorrow, would Israel? Apparently not, if we take the Gaza comparison for example.


So I refer you to my previous question McTag. Would it make you hapoier if instead of going after the rockets, rocket launchers, and supply routes, the Israelis just stayed home and fired rockets indiscriminately into Lebanese neighborhoods? Those 'pea shooters' are effective at destroying whatever property or person they land on, however.

Israel pulled out of Gaza remember? And was rewarded with stepped up terrorist attacks. Israel pulled out of most of the West Bank, remember? And was rewarded with stepped up terrorist attacks. Israel pulled out of Lebanon, remember? And has been rewarded with periodic terrorist attacks plus now an open act of war initated by Hezzbolah. Israel has the right to defend itself.

Several hundred Lebanese have been killed and yes, sadly, some of these have been women and children. That I maintain was by design and intention of Hezbollah, not Israel.

Hezbollah by its own admission is targeting Israeli civilians. Israel is not targeting civilians in any way but is targeting military targets nested among the civilians.

And yet your anger remains directed at Israel and not Hezbollah. To me that is just amazing.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 06:46 am
What's amazing to me is your willful ignoring of facts and normal observations that go contrary to your justifications of Israel killing innocent Lebanese civilians. You probably believe HRW is just another anti-Israel organization; however, the HRW said that in some cases of the deaths of Lebanese there were no Hezbollah fighters or rockets around to justify killing innocent Lebanese citizens. (I don't think it is a justification but...) I mean the deaths and destruction on the civilians in Lebanon is just too great for it all to be credibly blamed on "human shields."

But you are stubborn, so I am not going to waste my day or get myself all upset arguing with you in circles about it.
0 Replies
 
 

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