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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 05:24 pm
@McTag,
Gee, you are so intellectual. That comments really moves the conversation. Asshole!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 05:40 pm
@Advocate,
On the subject of Israel, McT is way above you in intelligence.

You have made charges against me about a) numbers of Palestinians killed, b) living conditions of the Palestinians, and c) about my lying, but you have never responded when I asked you to provide evidence for your claims.





0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 12:58 am
@Advocate,

Quote:
Gee, you are so intellectual. That comments really moves the conversation. Asshole!


I like to respond in an appropriate way to Ican's various, but not very varied, comments.

Although he's not the only silly prat around.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 11:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
American citizens of the USA make sure they are responsible for the prevention of crimes in their neighborhoods by having their government hire police and fire fighters; it's their police and fire fighters duty and responsibility to prevent crime.

Palestinian citizens of Palestine not part of Israel can make sure they are responsible for the prevention of crimes in their neighborhood by having their government hire police and fire fighters; it would be their police and fire fighters duty and responsibility to prevent crime.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 05:31 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, More ignorance from the dumbest poster on a2k. The economy in those prisons are so bad, most are unable to buy food and medicine. How do you suppose they're going to pay for a police force? Also, Israel will never allow any Palestinian police force to carry guns.

You are so dumb, why do you bother making yourself look dumber?
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 06:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So you perceive the Palestinians who do not live in Israel as living in prison! Do you think that those Palestinians think that they are living in prison? If you think YES, then why do you think that?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 07:12 pm
@ican711nm,
You are definitely an idiot.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 07:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
Some years ago, Israel issued guns to the the Pal police. But I doubt that Israel would repeat this after the guns were turned on Israelis.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:05 am
@Advocate,
Not surprising; the Israelis are the real enemy of freedom and property rights.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
From Reuters:
Quote:

U.S. envoy sees progress with Israel on peace push

US Middle East envoy Mitchell arrives for a meeting in the West Bank city of Ramallah Reuters " U.S. Middle East envoy George Mitchell (C) arrives for a meeting with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas …

By Jeffrey Heller Jeffrey Heller " 1 hr 49 mins ago

JERUSALEM (Reuters) " U.S. envoy George Mitchell and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu could not agree on a Jewish settlement freeze in talks on Tuesday but said negotiations were advancing.

"We are making progress," Netanyahu told Israel army radio.

"I think we held a very important and productive talk and we will continue with the effort which, I believe, in the end will succeed in advancing peace and security between us and our Palestinian neighbors and the region in general."

After more than two hours of talks with Netanyahu, Mitchell told reporters: "We have made good progress."

Mitchell said he looked forward to continuing discussions with Netanyahu and moving toward a "comprehensive peace" envisioned by U.S. President Barack Obama. He did not say when he would next meet the Israeli leader.

Obama's demand, in line with a 2003 peace plan, to freeze Israeli settlement in the occupied West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem has met stiff resistance from Netanyahu, the most serious rift in U.S.-Israeli relations in a decade.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 12:38 pm
O's freeze demand is absolutely one-sided (just like your one-sided condemnations of Israel). Moreover, any freeze should be worked out in bilateral talks between Israel and the Pals. However, the latter still does not recognize Israel, or even show it on its maps. See

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/opinion/28benn.html?em
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 12:44 pm
@Advocate,
That's the way you see it, because it's not your land that's being stolen.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 01:06 pm
The article Advocate cited is provocative and I'm going to post the whole thing before it is archived at the NY Times.

The writer quite competently illustrates the contradictions and the emotional and political dynamics behind President Obama's relationship with Israel as it is seen in Israel. He also managed to thump me on the head a bit. I have generally associated the unconscionable and indefensible treatment of the Jews in Europe as the impetus for the creation of the modern state of Israel.

This writer says that Israelis don't look at it that way, but rather see Israel as the fulfillment of the Zionist spirit.
Quote:
Here we are taught that Zionist determination and struggle " not guilt over the Holocaust " brought Jews a homeland


All in all it is a thoughtful and well written piece that illustrates the dichotomy and how perceptions get in the way of solutions and, right or wrong, throw emotional support to be in favor of one side or the other.

Quote:
Why Won't Obama Talk to Israel?
Published: July 27, 2009

TEL AVIV

IN his global tours and TV appearances, President Obama has spoken to Arabs, Muslims, Iranians, Western Europeans, Eastern Europeans, Russians and Africans. His words have stirred emotions and been well received everywhere.

But he hasn’t bothered to speak directly to Israelis.

And the effect? Six months into his presidency, Israelis find themselves increasingly suspicious of Mr. Obama. All they see is American pressure on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to freeze settlements, a request that’s been interpreted here as political arm-twisting meant to please the Arab street at Israel’s expense " or simply to express the president’s dislike for Mr. Netanyahu.

This would seem counterproductive, given the importance the president has placed on resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If Israel is part of the problem, it’s also part of the solution. Yet so far, neither the president nor any senior administration official has given a speech or an interview aimed at an Israeli audience, beyond brief statements made at diplomatic photo ops.

The Arabs got the Cairo speech; we got silence.

This policy of ignoring Israel carries a price. Though Mr. Obama has succeeded in prodding Mr. Netanyahu to accept the idea of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, he has failed to induce Israel to impose a freeze on settlements. In fact, he has failed even to stir debate about the merits of one: no Israeli political figure has stood up to Mr. Netanyahu and begged him to support Mr. Obama; not even the Israeli left, desperate for a new agenda, has adopted Mr. Obama as its icon.

As a result, Mr. Netanyahu enjoys a virtual domestic consensus over his rejection of the settlement freeze. Moreover, he has succeeded in portraying Mr. Obama as a shaky ally. In Mr. Netanyahu’s narrative, the president has fallen under the influence of top aides " in this case Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod " whom the prime minister has called “self-hating Jews.” Meanwhile, Mr. Netanyahu is the defender of national glory in face of unfair pressure, someone who sticks to the first commandment of Israeli culture: thou shalt never be the freier (that is, the dupe).

So far, Israelis have embraced Mr. Netanyahu’s message. A Jerusalem Post poll of Israeli Jews last month indicated that only 6 percent of those surveyed considered the Obama administration to be pro-Israel, while 50 percent said that its policies are more pro-Palestinian than pro-Israeli. Less scientifically: Israeli rightists have " in columns, articles and public statements " taken to calling the president by his middle name, Hussein, as proof of his pro-Arab tendencies.

What went wrong? Several explanations come to mind.

First, in the 16 rosy years of Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, Israelis became spoiled by unfettered presidential attention. Memories of State Department “Arabists” leading American policy in the Middle East were erased. The White House coordinated its policy with Jerusalem, and stayed out of the way when Israel embarked on controversial military offensives in Lebanon and Gaza. This approach infuriated America’s Arab and European allies, which blamed Washington for one-sidedness " something they were willing to forgive of Bill Clinton but not of George W. Bush.

Mr. Obama came to office determined to repair America’s broken alliances in Europe and the Middle East. One way to do this " to prove that he was the opposite of his predecessor " was to place some distance between Israel and himself.

Second, Mr. Obama’s quest for diplomacy has appeared to Israelis as dangerous American naïveté. The president offered a hand to the Iranians, and got nothing, merely giving them more time to advance their nuclear program. In Israeli eyes, he was humiliated by North Korea’s nuclear and missile tests. And he failed to move Arab governments to take steps to normalize relations with Israel. Conclusion: Mr. Obama is a softie, eager to please his listeners and avoid confrontation with anyone who is not Mr. Netanyahu.

Third, Mr. Obama seems to have confused American Jews with Israelis. We are close emotionally and politically, but we are different. We speak Hebrew and not English, we live in the Middle East and have separate historical narratives. Mr. Obama’s stop at Buchenwald and his strong rejection of Holocaust denial, immediately after his Cairo speech, appealed to American Jews but fell flat in Israel. Here we are taught that Zionist determination and struggle " not guilt over the Holocaust " brought Jews a homeland. Mr. Obama’s speech, which linked Israel’s existence to the Jewish tragedy, infuriated many Israelis who sensed its closeness to the narrative of enemies like Mahmoud Ahmedinejad.

Fourth, as far as most Israelis are concerned, Mr. Obama has made a mistake in focusing on a settlement freeze. For starters, mainstream Israelis rarely have anything to do with the settlements; many have no idea where they are, even when they’re a half-hour’s drive from Tel Aviv.

More important: in the past decade, repeated peace negotiations and diplomatic statements have indicated that larger, closer-to-home settlements (the “settlement blocs”) will remain in Israeli hands under any two-state solution. Why, then, insist on a total freeze everywhere? And why deny with such force " as the administration did " the existence of previous understandings between the United States and Israel over limited settlement construction? There is simply too much evidence proving that such an understanding existed. To Israelis, the claim undermined Mr. Obama’s credibility " and strengthened Mr. Netanyahu’s position.

Perhaps there are good reasons behind Mr. Obama’s Middle East policy. Perhaps the settlement freeze is in Israel’s best interest. Perhaps the president is truly committed to Israel’s long-term security and well-being. Perhaps his popularity in the Arab street is the missing ingredient of peacemaking.

But until the president talks to us, we won’t know. Next time you’re in the neighborhood, Mr. President, speak to us directly. We will surely listen.

Aluf Benn is the editor at large of the Israeli newspaper Haaretz.
http://able2know.org/reply/topic-79142
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 01:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
The economy in those prisons are so bad, most are unable to buy food and medicine. How do you suppose they're going to pay for a police force? Also, Israel will never allow any Palestinian police force to carry guns.

So you really do perceive the Palestinians who do not live in Israel as living in prison!

So you really do think the Palestinians, who do not live in Israel, think that they are living in prison!
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 01:31 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
The economy in those prisons are so bad, most are unable to buy food and medicine. How do you suppose they're going to pay for a police force? Also, Israel will never allow any Palestinian police force to carry guns.

So you really do perceive the Palestinians who do not live in Israel as living in prison!

So you really do think the Palestinians, who do not live in Israel, think that they are living in prison!


It doesn't help that the leaders intercept truckloads of food and medicine, allowed by Israel and intended as relief to the people, and that those leaders then appropriate the supplies for themselves or sell it on the black market to help finance more bombs, bullets, rockets, and rocket launchers.

But the Palestinian apologists rarely, if ever, condemn or criticize the Palestinian leaders or see that they have any role whatsoever in the hardships endured by the people.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 02:07 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
It doesn't help that the leaders intercept truckloads of food and medicine, allowed by Israel and intended as relief to the people, and that those leaders then appropriate the supplies for themselves or sell it on the black market to help finance more bombs, bullets, rockets, and rocket launchers.


Give the Palestinians 3 billion a year for weapons and if this has occurred, I can guarantee it'll not happen again.

Quote:
But the Palestinian apologists rarely, if ever, condemn or criticize the Palestinian leaders or see that they have any role whatsoever in the hardships endured by the people.


Your "concern" is duly noted as is your continued stunning hypocrisy, Foxy. My apologies but you lot can't even see how dumb you really are.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 02:11 pm
@JTT,
Dumb and dumber; they can't see their own hypocrisy.

They can't even see the "do unto others..." sermon. I wonder how they would act under similar circumstances; their lands stolen without any compensation, fences and armed guards restricting their free movement in their own country, and no opportunities to improve their lives.

A bunch of hypocrites!
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 04:11 pm
Gaza is rapidly Islamizing. This is just what the world needs, another terrorist ME country.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 04:20 pm
@Advocate,
As I've mentioned before, Advocate, sometimes you do make sense and then, this.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 04:58 pm
@Advocate,
The terrorist country is called Israel; they have a record of having killed more innocent Palestinians than the reverse. That's fact; something you Israel apologists won't admit or see. In January, Israel intentionally killed children that were attending a UN school in Gaza.
 

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