ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

@Foxfyre,

Quote:

And there are as many soldiers who claim the accusations are unfounded. It's sort of like who do you believe? John Kerry and others who testified before Congress of gross military misconduct by his fellow soldiers in SE Asia, or the many who disputed Kerry's testimony even as they exposed the many provable errors in his testimony about his own activities?

Nobody serving with American forces anywhere will say that nobody oversteps his/her authority or acts inappriately or criminally. Nobody serving with the IDF claims that there are no Israeli soldiers who behave badly. The rogue exceptions have to be balanced against the very large majority who do follow the established rules, protocol, and ethics.

You believe the facts. You believe the bodies lying in the trenches, men, women and children riddled with bullet holes. You believe the soldiers who acknowledge those crimes.

What you don't do is not prosecute war crimes, what you don;t do is cover up, what you don;t do is pardon convicted war criminals [like nixon did with, ... what's that scumbucket's name?]

It makes you more than a hypocrite, it makes you an accessory.

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@Cycloptichorn,

If your statement about shields is true, it is certainly the exception that proved the rule. Israel has always been more humane than any other country.

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@cicerone imposter,

You are a lying bastard. You know very well that Hamas purposely operated among civilians. E. g., they used school yards in shooting mortars and missiles. Btw, Israelis will return fire, as would any other military.

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@Advocate,

As I've often said, arm the two equally and we'll see how things pan out. For a glimpse into what that could be, we only have to look at history.

Quote:

EARLY ZIONIST TERRORIST GANGS.

Soon after the end of World War II, there were three basic para-military Zionist organizations in Palestine, working against the Arab people, with the specific purpose of driving it out of Palestine. These were the Haganah, the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang.

Before the British Mandate, the Jewish settlers had formed a group of mounted armed watchmen called "Hashomar" and with the advent of the British Mandate, it became the Haganah (Defense). With a membership of 60,000 Zionist Jews, the Haganah had a field army of 16,000 trained men and a unit called the Palmach, which was a full-time force, numbering about 6000.

The Irgun Zvai Leumi included between 3000 and 5000 armed terrorists, and grew out of the Haganah and its Palmach branch in 1933. The Irgun was not ready to obey the Jewish Agency which sought to dilute the terror of the Haganah in order not to lose its respectability.

In 1939, one of Irgun's commanding officers, Abraham Stern, left the parent organization and formed the Stern Gang, numbering some 200 to 300 dangerous fanatics.

SOME EARLY EXAMPLES OF JEWISH-ZIONIST TERROR.

...

http://guardian.150m.com/palestine/jewish-terrorism.htm

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@Advocate,

Advocate, So, in your mind, it's okay to bomb out a whole neighborhood (in the US or anyplace else considered a "democracy.") if the police knows where a criminal is hid out?

After all, all criminals hide out with other criminals in isolated places. We "all" know that, don't we?

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@cicerone imposter,

Mass murderers among the Palestinians shoot rockets at Israeli citizens from the neighborhoods in which non mass murderers live. Israel retaliates against those mass murderers by shooting at them in the hope of stopping them from continuing to shoot at Israeli citizens. Because those non-mass murdering Palestinians living in the neighborhoods from which the mass murderers fire do nothing to stop the mass murderers from shooting at Israel, they too are killed along with the mass murdering Palestinians.

The real solution to this mess is for the non-mass murdering Palestinians to stop the mass murdering Palestinians from attempting to kill Israeli civlians. I doubt that will happen for a very long time!

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@ican711nm,

Quote:

the mass murdering Palestinians.

Ican, 3 million Vietnamese, how many million Laotians, Cambodians, Iraqis, Afghans, Angolans, Cubans, Nicaraguans, Iranians, ... and you dare to point fingers.

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@ican711nm,

ican, That's nothing compared to the firebombs we used in Vietnam and Iraq.

When GW Bush initiated his war in Iraq, he used firebombs that was already declared illegal by the world community in which we were signers.
We ended up killing hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in Iraq. Since Bush didn't want civilian body counts, that's the estimate provided by human service organizations around the world.

You not only do not have any background in history, but are supportive of the very heinous crimes perpetrated against humanity by all.

People like you need to crawl back into the cave from which you emerged.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I never said that. Putting words in my mouth is tantamount to lying.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

What you continue to say is obvious. Show me what you said compared to my perception of what you said to show the difference in meaning?

Since this is not the first time you have lied about what I said, I won't be expecting any answer from you!

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Show me the words I said that match your perception of them. I never said anything coming close to your so-called perception.

As usual, you fail to make clear whether you are talking about something in Israel proper or in the WB and Gaza. (E. g., you say that Israel is guilty of apartheid (which is nonsense). I guess this is your way of saying that the state of Israel doesn't exist.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate said:

Quote:

(E. g., you say that Israel is guilty of apartheid (which is nonsense).

Type "isarel's apartheid" in Google, and you'll get 714,000 hits. If it's nonsense, why are there so many articles written about it?

Definition for "aparthied" - S: (n) apartheid (a social policy or racial segregation involving political and economic and legal discrimination against people (Palestinians - my entry) who are not Whites (Jews - my entry); the former official policy in South Africa)

Advocate, Do you know what a "apartheid wall" is? How about "restrictions from freely moving from one place to another - in ones own country?"

I will not spend the time to look for your bigoted statements that can't be challenged against what I said about your posts on this thread. It's up to you to show me why they differ. I'll wait, but I know you can't prove it.

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@cicerone imposter,

The Vietnam and Iraq wars have nothing to do with the conflict between Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews. The UN recommended that Palestine be divided into an Arab state and a Jewish state. Some of the Palestinian Arabs have been at war with the Jewish state, Israel, ever since. The Israelis are going to defend themselves until they end that war or until they exterminate all the Arabs in Palestine. The Palestinian Arabs will ultimately decide which.

Democrats started and managed the Vietnam War, and are responsible for the deaths that occurred because of that war. Republicans ended that war after first trying again for the USA to win it.

Iraq civilian deaths caused by the USA are about 10 to 20 thousand. Iraq civilian deaths caused by al-Qaeda and other middle eastern mass murderers are about 80 to 90 thousand.

Quote:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
Documented civilian deaths from violence

92,489 " 100,971

Deaths per day from suicide attacks and vehicle bombs (now includes non-vehicle suicide attacks)

Monthly table

..... 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
Jan 3 568 1035 1430 2806 743 276
Feb 2 604 1201 1449 2536 1008 343
Mar 3976 957 786 1789 2614 1538 416
Apr 3437 1256 1025 1590 2436 1261 484
May 545 619 1226 2103 2769 760 332
Jun 593 833 1215 2426 2108 670 100
Jul 650 762 1444 3159 2568 584
Aug 790 823 2165 2743 2333 592
Sep 553 943 1330 2408 1221 535
Oct 493 947 1201 2924 1185 528
Nov 478 1533 1208 2969 1043 473
Dec 529 906 996 2662 903 522
12,049 10,751 14,832 27,652 24,522 9,214 1,951

This data is based on 19,695 database entries from the beginning of the war to 10 June 2009. The most recent weeks are always in the process of compilation and will rise further. The current range contains 3,550"3,662 deaths (3.8%"3.6%, a portion which may rise or fall over time) based on single-sourced reports. Graphs are based on the higher number in our totals. Gaps in recording and reporting suggest that even our highest totals to date may be missing many civilian deaths from violence. See Recent Events for as yet unpublished incidents, and read About IBC for a better description of the project's scope and limitations.

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@ican711nm,

Study your history about Israel/Palestine. Although I know for sure you will not gain any facts or knowledge from it.

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@ican711nm,

Quote:

Democrats started and managed the Vietnam War, and are responsible for the deaths that occurred because of that war. Republicans ended that war after first trying again for the USA to win it.

Even if you were correct, you aren't, the whole of the USA shares a measure of responsibility for that tragic illegal terrorist action, the war crimes heaped upon war crimes.

It isn't possible to "win" terrorist actions.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:

"...the whole of the USA shares a measure of responsibility for that tragic illegal terrorist action, the war crimes heaped upon war crimes."

It seems more often than not that conservatives seem to isolate themselves from US actions that occurred during republican administrations, but are able to identify when democrats were in the white house. They still haven't accepted the reality that what our government does is done in all our names. We always have a tendency to "support our troops" no matter how atrocious the justification for war is/was - except for Vietnam.

Most all cultures understood this; that the civilian population always supported their military most often led by a civilian leadership. Our civilian leadership has screwed up many times to involve our men and women into wars that were unjustified for many reasons.

We are still engaged in wars that kills innocent men, women and children.

That blame enures to all of us.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

The Israel haters have nothing valid to say, so they go off on a silly tangent about Nam, Iraq, et al. Don't fall into their little stupid diversion by actually responding.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate, I'm waiting for your response to

Quote:

I will not spend the time to look for your bigoted statements that can't be challenged against what I said about your posts on this thread. It's up to you to show me why they differ. I'll wait, but I know you can't prove it.

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@cicerone imposter,

It seems the cops here have already done that, with no criminal charges filed.
Or have you forgotten about Philadelphia and the neighborhood the bombed and burned down?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Most all cultures understood this; that the civilian population always supported their military most often led by a civilian leadership. Our civilian leadership has screwed up many times to involve our men and women into wars that were unjustified for many reasons.

We are still engaged in wars that kills innocent men, women and children.

That blame enures to all of us.

"Enure" (inure) means to make used to something. I do not see how you used it in your sentence above.

History has always had warlike societies. Peace can then be "unjustified" for those societies.

Your point above about "innocent, men women and children" being killed in wars "we are still engaged in" means what? Innocents get killed in all wars? What is your point? Only peace will not kill innocents. Peace is not always the political reality for all societies/nations.

1 Reply

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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