ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Really now? I tend to believe that all the concern that Germany has had was for the self-serving effort to make sure there is never a resurgence of Nazism.

While many Germans do say, if asked, that the Final Solution was wrong, do many have remorse for killing off a German demographic that tended to be part of a well-educated class (aka, a competing demographic)? By letting in poor ex-Soviet Jews, Germany can say they now have a Jewish community alive and well. However, these ex-Soviet Jews are not the pre-WWII German Jews that had a few hundred years of competing with other Germans for a place in the German economy and society. I doubt that many Germans have much remorse for eliminating this competing group of people.

And, the fact that Germany paid monetary reparatations to the relatives of victims of the Holocaust is a morbid joke, in my opinion, since it was as if one can assuage one's conscience with money. Something that smacked, in my opinion, of the negative stereotype the Nazis portrayed Jews as. You do know, we tend to become that which we hate the most. And Germany is a prosperous business today.

Foofie wrote:

Really now? I tend to believe that all the concern that Germany has had was for the self-serving effort to make sure there is never a resurgence of Nazism.

While many Germans do say, if asked, that the Final Solution was wrong, do many have remorse for killing off a German demographic that tended to be part of a well-educated class (aka, a competing demographic)? By letting in poor ex-Soviet Jews, Germany can say they now have a Jewish community alive and well. However, these ex-Soviet Jews are not the pre-WWII German Jews that had a few hundred years of competing with other Germans for a place in the German economy and society. I doubt that many Germans have much remorse for eliminating this competing group of people.

And, the fact that Germany paid monetary reparatations to the relatives of victims of the Holocaust is a morbid joke, in my opinion, since it was as if one can assuage one's conscience with money. Something that smacked, in my opinion, of the negative stereotype the Nazis portrayed Jews as. You do know, we tend to become that which we hate the most. And Germany is a prosperous business today.

*****************************


Exactly and right to the point. Anyone who has traveled in Europe extensively knows that Anti-semitism is alive and well. It is present here in the United States and, obviously, if one reads posters like Cicerone Imposter, even on these threads.

Moveon.org, a powerful left wing organization, has been adamant in pressing for Palestinian "rights."

Note:

Comparison to other lobbies
Noam Chomsky, political activist and professor of linguistics at MIT, writes that "there are far more powerful interests that have a stake in what happens in the Persian Gulf region than does AIPAC [or the Lobby generally], such as the oil companies, the arms industry and other special interests whose lobbying influence and campaign contributions far surpass that of the much-vaunted Zionist lobby and its allied donors to congressional races."[60]

Eric Alterman writes in The Nation, that "while it's fair to call AIPAC obnoxious and even anti-democratic, the same can often be said about, say, the NRA, Big Pharma and other powerful lobbies."[61] Zbigniew Brzezinski agreed stating that "[t]he participation of ethnic or foreign supported lobbies in the American policy process is nothing new." Brzezinski ranks the three most effective ethnic lobbies in the United States as the Israeli American Lobby, the Cuban American lobby and the Armenian American lobby.[62]

Zunes describes that some groups who lobby against current U.S. policy on Israel "have accepted funding from autocratic Arab regimes, thereby damaging their credibility" while others have "taken hard-line positions that not only oppose the Israeli occupation but challenge Israel's very right to exist and are therefore not taken seriously by most policymakers."[18] Zunes writes that many lobbying groups on the left, such as Peace Action, are "more prone to complain about the power of the Israel lobby and its affiliated PACs than to do serious lobbying on this issue or condition its own PAC contributions on support for a more moderate U.S. policy" in the region.[18]

*****************************************************************

After the Holocaust, Netanyahu and Israel have earned the right to protect and defend themselves. I have searched diligently but cannot find any report of an Israeli blowing themselves( and other innocents) to kingdom come as a political statement.

Indeed, there are charges that Germany has not really learned its lesson and that Anti-Semitism still exists in the land that fathered Adolf Hitler.

Note:

Jewish Political Studies Review
Visit our new website: Institute for Global Jewish Affairs
Jewish Political Studies Review 16:3-4 (Fall 2004)



Anti-Semitism In Germany Today:
Its Roots And Tendencies1
Susanne Urban



The new millennium has witnessed a resurgence of anti-Semitism in the world, especially in Europe. Anti-Semitism certainly did not disappear in Germany after WW II. What is new is the blunt expression of anti-Semitism and the fraternization between left-wing and right-wing, liberal and conservative streams. Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism continue to spread in German society and are more and more openly expressed.

Right-wing groups and neo-Nazis are no longer the only ones who agitate against Israel and Jews. Together with "traditional" anti-Semitism, Germany has seen a growth of leftist anti-Semitism along with anti-imperialist, antiglobalization, and anti-Zionist attitudes, all reinforcing the new German claim of having been victims in WW II.

There is a widespread animus against Israel, clearly not only toward Israeli policies, that often goes along with pro-Palestinian partisanship. This development is intensified by anti-Israeli media coverage in Germany, often accompanied by anti-Semitic language and images.

This "new" anti-Semitism in Germany correlates with changes in the nation's attitudes toward WW II and remembrance of the Shoah. Laying the blame for "immoral" conduct on Israel, and therefore "the Jews," makes clear that "they" did not learn the lessons of the Shoah; whereas Germans see themselves as having learned the lessons by being watchmen against "immoral" politics.



In 1967 Jean Améry wrote: "The classic phenomenon of anti-Semitism is taking a new shape. The old one still exists, this I call coexistence....To be clear: anti-Semitism, included in...anti-Zionism as the thunderstorm is part of the cloud, is again respectable....But: a respectable anti-Semitism is not possible."2

More than thirty-five years later, it seems nothing has changed. Although anti-Semitism masks itself above all as anti-Zionism or "criticism of Israeli policies," its roots are pure, traditional anti-Semitism.

Amira Hass / Israel bans books, music and clothes from entering Gaza
By Amira Hass
(Haaretz)

Israel allows only food, medicine and detergent into the Gaza Strip. Thousands of items, including vital products for everyday activity, are forbidden.

Altogether only 30 to 40 select commercial items are now allowed into the Gaza Strip, compared to 4,000 that had been approved before the closure Israel imposed on Gaza following the abduction of Gilad Shalit, according to merchants and human rights activists.

The number of items changes according to what is determined by The Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories. COGAT has refused the PA representative's request for an updated list of the items permitted into Gaza in writing, and passes the information only via the telephone.

Gaza merchants are forbidden to import canned goods, plastic sheeting, toys and books, although the United Nations Relief and Works Agency and other aid organizations are permitted to bring them into the strip.

The few items merchants are allowed to trade in are divided into three categories: food, medicine and detergent. Everything else is forbidden - including building materials (which are necessary to rehabilitate Gaza's ruins and rebuild its infrastructure), electric appliances such as refrigerators and washing machines, spare machine and car parts, fabrics, threads, needles, light bulbs, candles, matches, books, musical instruments, crayons, clothing, shoes, mattresses, sheets, blankets, cutlery, crockery, cups, glasses and animals. Many of the banned products are imported through the tunnels and can be found in Gaza's markets.

Pasta, which had been forbidden in the past, is now allowed, after U.S. Senator John Kerry expressed his astonishment at the ban during a visit to Gaza in February. But tea, coffee, sausages, semolina, milk products in large packages and most baking products are forbidden. So are industrial commodities for manufacturing food products, chocolate, sesame seeds and nuts. Israel does allow importing fruit, milk products in small packages and frozen food products as well as limited amounts of industrial fuel.

The Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reported that during the first week of May, 2.2 million liters of industrial fuel - some 70 percent of the weekly supply required to operate the power station - was allowed into Gaza. UNRWA receives petrol and diesel supplies separately. A daily 270-300 tons of cooking gas - 54 percent of the required amount - is allowed.

Petrol and diesel for private cars and public transportation have not been imported from Israel since November 2, 2008, except for a small amount for UNRWA. The union of Gaza's gas station owners estimates that some 100,000 liters of diesel and 70,000 liters of petrol are brought through the tunnels daily.

Egypt, which in the past two months has been restricting the trade movement through the tunnels, does not limit the supply of gas and fuel. But since Egyptian fuel is heavier than Israeli fuel, it damages the newer cars in Gaza and causes malfunctions.

In the past, Israel allowed wood for home furnishings to be brought into Gaza for some time, but not wood for windows and doors. Now Israel has resumed the ban on wood for furniture.

The ban on toilet paper, diapers and sanitary napkins was lifted three months ago. A little more than a month ago, following a long ban, Israel permitted the import of detergents and soaps into Gaza. Even shampoo was allowed. But one merchant discovered that the bottles of shampoo he had ordered were sent back because they included conditioner, which was not on the list.

Five weeks ago Israel allowed margarine, salt and artificial sweetener to be brought into Gaza. Legumes have been allowed for the past two months and yeast for the past two weeks. Contrary to rumors, Israel has not banned sugar.

COGAT commented that, "The policy of bringing commodities derives from and is coordinated with Israel's policy toward the Gaza Strip, as determined by the cabinet decision on September 19, 2007."

A COGAT forum convenes with representatives of international organizations weekly to address special requests of the international community regarding humanitarian equipment and the changing needs of the Palestinian population, the statement says.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086045.html

I just know I'm going to regret asking this, but what more, or what otherwise, do you think postwar Germany should have done?

You falsely malign my friend c.i.

And as has been often stated here, to be against the current actions of the state of Israel is not the stamp of the "anti-semite". Many thoughtful jewish people, inside and outside of Israel, can see that no progress is being made with the Palestine question, and that current actions by Israel are counter-productive, boding ill for the future.

Endymion wrote:

(Haaretz)

Israel allows only food, medicine and detergent into the Gaza Strip. Thousands of items, including vital products for everyday activity, are forbidden.

end of quote

Why's that's terrible. How inhumane!!!

How can we solve this problem?

What about causing Hamas to stop firing rockets into Israel? Would that begin a process of healing?

But Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, so they keep firing rockets.

I guess that the Palestinians will just have to do without vital products for everyday activity--the ones they can't get from the tunnels from Egypt, I mean.

McTag wrote:

And as has been often stated here, to be against the current actions of the state of Israel is not the stamp of the "anti-semite". Many thoughtful jewish people, inside and outside of Israel, can see that no progress is being made with the Palestine question, and that current actions by Israel are counter-productive, boding ill for the future.

*******************************************************************

I am sorry, McTag, but I am unfamiliar with the many "thoughtful jewish people" you refer to, who say that current actions by Israel are counter-productive.

Do you have a link?

You may, of course, be referring to the peacenik fringe in Israel. Alas, McTag, since Israel is a Democracy, unlike the theocratic despotic Muslim countries around it, contrasting opinions are allowed. And, just like we have to listen to our Socialist leader who has brought a 10% Unemployment Rate on us, the Israelis must adhere to the leadership of Netanyahu.

That's the way Democracies work, McTag but I have a suggestion for you.

Wait until the next Israeli election and then contribute to the Israeli group who want to press for a reapproachment with the Muslims with no conditions attached. You may find it difficult to locate such a group but try!

McTag asked:

I just know I'm going to regret asking this, but what more, or what otherwise, do you think postwar Germany should have done?

****************************************************************

Instead of holding the Nuremberg trials, the US should have adopted the ways of the fanatics that beheaded Mr. Pearl, the US journalist and showed the beheading on Television. That might have frightened some of the covert Anti-semites enough that they would not continue their harrassment of Israeli policy.

As was brought out in the fine movie --Judgment at Nuremberg- the chief judge comments-

"You know, I can't find anyone who knew that the Nazis were exterminating thousands of Jews and yet trains full of Jews passed through the cities constantly"

I'm not asking you to solve the problem. You (and others who revel in the crushing of weaker opponents) don't have any answers. As Gandhi said: There is no way to peace. Peace IS the way.
And if peace is not YOUR way - then what you have to offer is nothing more than more of the same.

That question was for Foofie, who may still answer.

There is a memorial at Cologne railway station recognising the part that the railway system, its managers and operatives, played in the transport of prisoners to concentration and death camps.

There is a huge, open memorial in the centre of Berlin to the victims.

Yes, Peace is the way said Mr. Pearl just before the rabid Muslims cut his throat.

Teddy Roosevelt, one of our greatest presidents said--
Speak softly but carry a big stick.

You speak of "Nothing than more of the same"

You obviously do not keep up with the sublime literature of France which has, in various ways repeated again and again---

"The more things change, the more they remain the same"

Well, if that is all that is needed, I agree with McTag.

In the US, we do more than that. Every month in every school in the USA, Black History Month is celebrated.

Is there an official Holocaust day in Germany?

We have a FEDERAL holiday called--Dr, Martin Luther King day.

And, mirable dictu, there are still hundreds of black leaders who claim that the US is a racist country.

Isn't this rather reminiscent of the fact that no-one in the Israeli military, or any official spokespersons, will admit to firing at women and children, unarmed protestors, or using phosphorus shells against civilians?
But we know it happens.

Really? Are you trying to make a moral equivalency between the cold blooded murder of six million Jews in concentration camps with the ALLEGED use of Phosphorous shells(link? LINK? Evidence?) against alleged "unarmed protestors?

They are different, but moral equivalency, since you mention it? Sure. There is a moral equivalence.

Continually admonish, in a public forum (U.N., DW tv, etc.), those that cannot understand the need for Israel's continued existence as a Jewish State. Admit that as the country that many, in the 19th century, thought of as the zenith of culture and scientific progress, quickly devolved into the ancient ways of slave labor, and genocide. If it could happen to the cultured nation of 19th century Germany, it can happen to other nations, for sure. They should literally get on the bandwagon of Zionism and teach philo-Semitism to the world. Not as a penance, but as a realization that the Jewish culture has produced individuals that have given the world innovations that the world has benefitted from (I am not including the A-Bomb).

Foofie wrote:

Not as a penance, but as a realization that the Jewish culture has produced individuals that have given the world innovations that the world has benefitted from (I am not including the A-Bomb).

Yes- right on target.

Note:

Percentage of Nobel Prize Winners in Literature and the Sciences 1951-2000--

29%

And the rabid fanatic Muslims want to destroy the Jews.

Source for figure above--


"Human Accomplishment" by Charles Murray.

This is getting close to stating what you seem to believe: that because of the fact of the Holocaust, all and any actions of the State of Israel should be condoned and supported.