ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

@FreeDuck,

The difference between you and me, I think, is that I wouldn't CARE why the Canadians or Mexicans or Cubans were firing rockets trying to kill innocent men, women, and children. The fact that they were doing it would be sufficient reason to do whatever was necessary to stop it and/or preventing it from happening again for any reason.

I may feel resentment, indignation, anger, hate, fear, whatever, but that does not give me license to do violence to others. But to protect myself, to prevent violence being done to me and/or others, is sufficient reason to act.

We lock up people here who are a danger to themselves or others. HOW they got that way doesn't factor into how we deal with them. The fact that they ARE that way is sufficient to protect the innocent from them. And in the case of people who are repeat offenders or in which there are high instances of ricidivism, it is prudent to provide extra measures to protect the innocent.

2 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Oh, and it is entirely appropriate to bring in relationships with those Arab countries surrounding Israel. Remember that the two Middle East countries with which Israel has established peace are Egypt and Jordan, both of which are countries that attacked or were poised to attack Israel in 1967. So there is evidence certain that Israel is willing to forgive and get on with a peaceful co-existence with those who are willing to do likewise.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

The difference between you and me, I think, is that I wouldn't CARE why the Canadians or Mexicans or Cubans were firing rockets trying to kill innocent men, women, and children.

Agreed.

Quote:

The fact that they were doing it would be sufficient reason to do whatever was necessary to stop it and/or preventing it from happening again for any reason.

How do you stop it and prevent it from happening again if you don't know why it's happening? I keep hearing this argument that Israel invaded Gaza (or some other military action) in order to make sure that xxxx never happens again. But invariably xxxx does happen again. Clearly all of these military actions have not quelled the violence. And that's because they haven't addressed the fundamental problem.

Quote:

We lock up people here who are a danger to themselves or others. And HOW they got that way doesn't factor into how we deal with them. The fact that they ARE that way is sufficient to protect the innocent from them.

This analogy falls apart on many levels and I'm not sure where to begin. I'll start with this: if a person is a danger to themselves or others we can be reasonably certain that locking them up will prevent them from hurting people. There is no such certainty that violent reprisal will affect a territorial dispute in the same manner.

That last sentence, btw, also applies to the Palestinians. I think that the worst thing for their plight has been violence, specifically terrorist attacks that target civilians. However, if you sympathize with the desire to use violence to protect your people and your home then you must also sympathize with the Palestinians who take up arms to fight Israelis. In both cases I understand the desire, but I think the actions are wrong.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Oh, and it is entirely appropriate to bring in relationships with those Arab countries surrounding Israel. Remember that the two Middle East countries with which Israel has established peace are Egypt and Jordan, both of which are countries that attacked or were poised to attack Israel in 1967. So there is evidence certain that Israel is willing to forgive and get on with a peaceful co-existence with those who are willing to do likewise.

Sure, but that's not what you were talking about. You were using the pretext that Israel acted in self-defense in 1967 to show that it has always been acting in self-defense with regard to the Palestinian people. That's not the case.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck, I agree 100%. Vi0lence never accomplishes what they desire; it doesn't matter who.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

So then when the US and the allied powers used violence in WW2, it actually accomplished nothing?

Is that what you are saying?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mm, You are incapable of the simplest of concepts. There's a huge difference between wars within a country and wars between countries. Your brain needs more training in logic and simple concepts. Israel is isolated within the Middle East, and any wars they initiate against another Arab country only isolates and makes them more enemies. Israel's population cannot compete; it's called logistics.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

I think for the most part it is the case. You can certainly find anecdotal evidence to the contrary, but I doubt you'll be able to make any kind of case beyond reasonable doubt that Israeli policy toward the Palestinians has been mostly in self defense.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

You are a disgusting liar. Israel has never started a war. Tell us again how Israel killed hundreds of thousands Pals (along with your other lies).

2 Replies

@Advocate,

Advocate, Please show me where I said "Israel started a war?" I want to know how and why I'm a "disgusting liar?"

1 Reply

As long as the moderate Palestinian Arabs persist in failing to stop those among them mass murdering Israelis, they will have no one but themselves to blame for the full consequences of Israel exterminating those among them mass murdering Israelis, and also murdering moderates in the same neighborhoods.

2 Replies

@ican711nm,

Please provide us with when, where, and how the Palestinians have "mass murdered" Israelis? If you will be so kind as to list the mass murders of Palestinians by the Israelis would also be greatly appreciated.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Let me assist a little:

Quote:

Child casualties of Israel's war on Gaza

Stories of 10 of the 280 or more children who died during the three-week military operation

* Rory McCarthy
* guardian.co.uk, Friday 23 January 2009 18.13 GMT

Quote:

January 07, 2009
By Nikola Krastev
UNITED NATIONS -- A strike on a United Nations-run school that killed more than 30 Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip has increased international pressure on Israel to halt its offensive against the Palestinian militant group Hamas.

0 Replies

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

You are a disgusting liar. Israel has never started a war. Tell us again how Israel killed hundreds of thousands Pals (along with your other lies).

#1 -- 1956 Suez with the British & French.

#2 -- 1967 Egypt then in rapid succession Jordan and Syria.

You are a strange one to call others "liars".

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

I think for the most part it is the case. You can certainly find anecdotal evidence to the contrary, but I doubt you'll be able to make any kind of case beyond reasonable doubt that Israeli policy toward the Palestinians has been mostly in self defense.

I have no intention of making the case that Israeli policy toward the Palestinians has been mostly in self-defense. Quite the contrary, though perhaps that's what you meant. As to reasonable doubt, this is not a court and that is not my burden. But clearly confiscating Palestinian land -- some of it privately owned -- without compensation in order to give it to Israelis and thereby preventing Palestinians from ever using it again does not seem like something one would do in self-defense. Nor does killing unarmed protesters. Or allowing settlers to attack Palestinian farmers at will. The wall, purported to be erected in self-defense, cuts deep into the West Bank and more or less redraws Israel's border. What defense does that provide? How does that increase Israel's safety? As an occupation force in the West Bank and Gaza Israel has responsibilities toward the Palestinians that have not been met. They may use self-defense as a justification for not meeting those obligations, but that doesn't excuse it.

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

George said:

"Re: Advocate (Post 3631235)
Advocate wrote:

You are a disgusting liar. Israel has never started a war. Tell us again how Israel killed hundreds of thousands Pals (along with your other lies).

#1 -- 1956 Suez with the British & French.

#2 -- 1967 Egypt then in rapid succession Jordan and Syria.

You are a strange one to call others "liars". "

1) REGARDING THE SUEZ INVASION, ISRAEL WAS IN A STATE OF WAR WITH EGYPT, WHICH WAS CONSTANTLY ATTACKING ISRAEL. THUS, ISRAEL DID NOT START A WAR THERE.

2) EGYPT STARTED THAT WAR WHEN IT BLOCKADED THE GULF OF AQABA, AND ACT OF WAR. AT THE URGING OF EGYPT, JORDAN AND SYRIA MOUNTED ATTACKS AGAINST ISRAEL, ALTHOUGH ISRAEL ASKED THEM NOT TO DO THIS.

I GUESS YOU ARE A LIAR, TOO.

2 Replies

@Advocate,

It is pointless discussing thses issues with you. Your conclusions are foreordained and you distort the facts to fit them. OK by me, but you should consider the consequences of these habits on your thinking generally.

0 Replies

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

2) EGYPT STARTED THAT WAR WHEN IT BLOCKADED THE GULF OF AQABA, AND ACT OF WAR.

So then Israel started the war in Gaza...

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Just above, you said " Israel is isolated within the Middle East, and any wars they initiate against another Arab country only isolates and makes them more enemies. Israel's population cannot compete; it's called logistics. " You earlier said that Israel killed (exterminated) hundreds of thousands of Pals. Big lies!

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Pal mass murders: bombing or shooting up Israeli buses, pizza parlors, bingo parlors, schools, etc.

0 Replies

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know