ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

It is also incorrect to call those that are pro-Israel as Israeli apologists, since that implies, in my opinion, that no one can have a legitimate caring for Israel as a Zionist state. The term apologist neatly disenfranchises a pro-Israel person from his/her valid feelings, I think.

And equating pro-Israel feelings, to backing a Nazi like regime, is really beyond the pale of reason, since Israel has no desire to conquer the Middle East or the entire world (as the Nazis did). Jews are not acting like Nazis. Jews, for the first time in 2,000 years, are just learning that to own a piece of land, one must act like the majority peoples that maintained a national entity. Being in the Diaspora, Jews never had to do the dirty work of keeping a land for the current population; they were always the guests. So, Jews are just acting like Gentiles for the first time in a long time. But not Nazis. That is just an ad-hominem in my mind, that has no validity.

In a way, the Israelis might be more analogous to the Irish that came to NYC in the 1850's and then some of the young men needed to form gangs to protect themselves from the young men (in gangs) that were part of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon population. No sooner did the Irish youth manage to get the upper hand against the Anglo-Saxon gangs, and surely someone might have pointed out that the young Irish are no better than the English overlords back in Ireland. So, ta my way of tinkin', if I'm tinkin' at all, some people do not like seeing a perennial underdog suddenly act like the top dog. Too much cognitive dissonance, I believe.

The criticism of Jews in Germany and other places was not based on real things ...

If the Jews in Germany were not based on "real things," how did the Nazi exterminate four million Jews? ...

And given the treatment of Jews at various times through history, I still can't figure out why anybody would begrudge the Jews one tiny plot of ground where they don't have to worry about being discriminated against. Especially since they do not themselves discriminate against those who accept them for who they are and are willing to live in peace with them as testified by the 20% of the Israeli citizenship that is made up of mostly Palestinianian Arabs.

The assimilation of all immigrant groups here - Irish and Jewish alike - involved analogous phases and transitions. Those Irish criminal gangs to which you referred also found themselves competing, often unsuccessfully, with Jewish and Italian gangs for power and prominence. That many of them ended up doing to others what had been done to them is no surprise - we all share a common human nature. It is noteworthy that they, and their Jewish & Italian counterparts, eventually got over it all and assimilated into the common culture.

I don't think the facts support your notion that Jews have been a "perennial underdog". They have survived and prospered in many diverse environments and cultures, and preserved their own culture largely intact for milennia - not exactly my definition of an underdog.

The criticism of Jews in Germany and other places was not based on real things, but on invalid heresay and perception. The criticism of Muslims in, say, Denmark, is based on their real unacceptable activities. George is too biased and full of hate for Israel to admit this.

I never referred to Irish "criminal gangs." My reference was to the youth gangs of the nineteenth century in NYC.

Jews were perennial underdogs, since they had been guests in most countries. Some lived comfortably, but were disenfranchised from the power structure which was Christian by definition. That is my definition of an underdog, since when the host country had hard times, the Jews were the first to get kicked out. They were never considered indigenous, and now in Israel, they are told they are not indigenous. So, where would you put them? Or, are they an intellectual resource that should be shared with the world's nations (maybe then some countries would have better dental care - joke)?

Do you see my point? The Diaspora went on too long to allow, in the minds of many, for Jews to claim they are indigenous to Israel. They were kicked out of Middle Eastern countries after the 1957 war. And Europe is not exactly philo-Semitic. Stalin gave them a homeland in Siberia?

I personally hope that Jews worldwide eventually mix with the Ethiopean Jews and then leave their history behind them as the pariahs of Europe. I believe that would be a "just dessert" for western man. In effect, Jews should, in my opinion, just thumb their collective noses at western society for the two-thousand year (and continuing) inability to accept Jews as Jews.

Israel was formed on land that was not a country. Much of the land was purchased by Jews. No one was kicked out -- Pals abandoned their country when asked to move aside by the Arab invaders.

The Arab world can't stand Israel because, with its democracy and technical and other achievements, Israel contrasts so sharply with the backward Arab countries.

this is easy for an Israel and Jew hater like yourself