ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

@mysteryman,

Why should you see what you want? The fact that Cheney had a meeting with the energy execs that looked at the oil fields of Iraq seems obvious to most observers. You can take a horse to water, but ...

You also seem to miss the fact that Cheney refused to discuss what they talked about in those meetings; there is such a thing as a "sunshine law" that requires our government to be transparent in what they do - except in cases of national security (and that would be a stretch).

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Advocate made a specific claim.
Here is that claim, just to refresh your memory...

Quote:

Cheney and Bush, both oil men, went into Iraq to grab the oil. They had maps drawn up dividing Iraq among the US oil companies.

Now, you posted the maps, and there was NOTHING on them that even remotely supported the claim made by advocate.
So, since his claim is unsupported, why are you defending it?
You usually expect people to be able to back up their claims.

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@mysteryman,

I'm not even sure about any conclusions on

Quote:

They had maps drawn up dividing Iraq among the US oil companies.

If that wasn't the case, why were their meetings such a secret, and nobody said anything to defend themselves from such a charge? They didn't reveal anything which in of itself is breaking the laws of the land.

I'm very skeptical about how the Bush administration ran business, and I'm not about to give them a pass on this issue.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

You usually expect people to be able to back up their claims.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Why are all of the oil contracts going to other countries?

Really? I'd read that the deadline for the biding round had been extended from January 31 to mid-February.

Do you have a source for the results?

The first contract (2004 - 2008) was won by KBR, which was a subsidiary of Halliburton. KBR officially separated from Halliburton in April 2007 and is now an independent company - but still 100% American.

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@Walter Hinteler,

From Wiki:

Quote:

KBR, Inc. (formerly Kellogg Brown & Root) NYSE: KBR is an American engineering and construction company, formerly a subsidiary of Halliburton, based in Houston. After Halliburton acquired Dresser Industries in 1998, Dresser's engineering subsidiary, The M. W. Kellogg Co., was merged with Halliburton's construction subsidiary, Brown & Root, to form Kellogg Brown & Root. KBR and its predecessors have won many contracts with the U.S. military during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, as well as during World War II and the Vietnam War.

KBR is the largest non-union construction company in the United States.[1] The company's corporate offices are in the KBR Tower at 601 Jefferson Street in Downtown Houston.[2][3]

Two plus two usually equals four.

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Every Presidential administration has awarded major contracts to Halliburton since there has been a Halliburton. Why? Because there are two companies in the entire world who can do what Halliburton does and Halliburton is the only American-owned one.

Evenso, Halliburton owns not a single oil well nor any oil in the Middle East or anywhere else. They build, sell, and service oil rigs, pipelines, storage facilities, delivery systems. They build, sell, and service energy-related environmental emergency equipment. They provide evaluation services for deciding whether and where to drill in the first place. They are a one-stop shop for energy-related needs from initial discovery to final delivery and do it on a scale that nobody else can.

When Saddam set all the Kuwait oil wells on fire, the 'experts' declared it a catastrophe of global proportions that would take years to resolve. Hallibuton teamed up with Red Adair and had the fires out, the wells up and running, and the mess cleaned up in a matter of weeks.

Though Halliburton isn't an oil company itself, those of you who don't want U.S. oil companies operating anywhere in the Middle East should be lobbying your elected representatives to open up offshore drilling, ANWR, etc. and let our homegrown oil companies go after our own oil. The world has to get it from somewhere which is why it is imperative that madmen and tyrants in the Middle East not be allowed to hold the free world hostage.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

The first contract (2004 - 2008) was won by KBR, which was a subsidiary of Halliburton. KBR officially separated from Halliburton in April 2007 and is now an independent company - but still 100% American.

That may be so, but if I remember correctly, the first oil contracts went to China and other countries, and very little of it went to KBR.

So, how does that jibe with the claim that the Bush invaded Iraq solely for the oil and that the US was going to get it all?

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

That may be so, but if I remember correctly, the first oil contracts went to China and other countries, and very little of it went to KBR.

Would you mind - reminding you that you asked for sources - for a source for that?

Yours might be certainly better then this WaPo report

Quote:

The contract ran from 2004 to 2008 and, like many signed in the early years of the Iraq war, it had a general goal: to rebuild the oil infrastructure in southern Iraq, using U.S. funds ($562 million) and money generated by sale of Iraqi oil ($160 million). The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Joint Contracting Command in Iraq managed the contract, which KBR won. When the contract went into effect, KBR was a subsidiary of Halliburton. KBR officially separated from Halliburton in April 2007 and is now an independent company.

And you didn't respond to my question about the second (according to what I could find out) still running biding.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Also, here's this:

Quote:

About 95% of federal contracts are awarded to small- and medium-sized ... by law under applicable Federal regulations (Federal Acquisition Regulation or FAR). ... for requirements over $100000, it is competitive and the lowest bid will win .... the successful bidder and the contract price become public information. ...

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Back on topic....

Israeli youth interviewed by Haaretz. Gives you a good glimpse into how the parents have raised their kids, and the dark heart of Zionism.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061910.html

Quote:

"This country has needed a dictatorship for a long time already. But I'm not talking about an extreme dictatorship. We need someone who can put things in order. Lieberman is the only one who speaks the truth." Adds Edan Ivanov, an 18 year old who describes himself as being "up on current events."

"Israeli Arabs don't support the state and yet they receive money and a seat in the Knesset," says 11th-grader Nicole Parnasa. "Serious measures need to be taken to make them aware of what they're doing. Someone who doesn't declare his loyalty to the state, who has no patriotism, should have his citizenship taken away. Anyone who's against the operation in Gaza, for example - that's a kind of disloyalty."

That's just a small example. A lot of the opinions expressed would have fit right in... well, you know where.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1062338.html

Another article on the extreme racism and support for dictatorship which has become popular in Israel.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

That's funny: you looked at "all" the maps. How could you do that? Check the sites for Judicial Watch and Sierra Club, both reputable organizations. Both had posted such maps.

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@mysteryman,

The maps showed the intentions of the administration. However, Bush even screwed that up, not even coming close to getting all the rights to Iraqi oil.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Your quote brings out the dark hearts of Arab Israelis, not the heart of Zionism. Unquestionably, the Arab-Israeli community is the fifth column existing in Israel.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

Your quote brings out the dark hearts of Arab Israelis, not the heart of Zionism. Unquestionably, the Arab-Israeli community is the fifth column existing in Israel.

Sounds remarkably similar to Nazi propaganda concerning the Jews of Germany in the 1930s.

Narrow-minded tribal intolerance is more or less the same no matter who practices it.

2 Replies

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Advocate wrote:

Your quote brings out the dark hearts of Arab Israelis, not the heart of Zionism. Unquestionably, the Arab-Israeli community is the fifth column existing in Israel.

Sounds remarkably similar to Nazi propaganda concerning the Jews of Germany in the 1930s.

Narrow-minded tribal intolerance is more or less the same no matter who practices it.

So, if you see a correlation with the Nazi thinking, the question might be will Jews attempt a Final Solution (aka, Zyklon-B)? I believe the answer is no, since we see that the Palestineans are still alive after 60 years of Israel existing. And, how many years, from the inception of the Third Reich did it take to invoke the Final Solution? Your analogy can be offensive to some.

My point is this analogy to Nazi thinking is specious, in my opinion, since all countries have dehumanized an enemy with propaganda reflecting much more than "narrow-minded tribal intolerance." Can we remember the term, Hun from WWI, Kraut from WWII, Jap from WWII, Gook from Vietnam?

And, why were the Japanese-Americans interred during WWII? And, were there not background checks of some German-Americans? I also read that Hoover, after WWII, was hiring into the FBI many Irish-Americans because there was a concern over a resurgence of Naziism, and there were more than a few Irish-Americans in the American Bund Party. In effect, we have a few instances of considering certain groups possibly containing a few fifth columnists.

In fact this is a topic I have heard discussed between some people - which groups are "more American" than other groups. It had something to do with which groups spilled more blood during past wars. Sort of like making a lemonade out of a lemon, in my opinion.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Whether it takes five years or fifty years, persecuting one group of people for prejudice is still a holocaust.

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@georgeob1,

Good old Georgie, the master of the baseless assertion. The fact of the matter is that the Arab Israeli is treated with respect and dignity, and has equal rights the same as any other Israeli.

2 Replies

@Advocate,

Advocate, Why are you so blind on this one issue? Have you ever been to Israel? Have you ever read the truth about how the Palestinians are treated by the Israelis? I have been there, and I have seen the fences and the check points. We have also talked to a young Palestinian woman who lives in Jerusalem and who's family has lived in Palestine for generations, and yet she is not free to move about from one area to the next. This is supposed to be a democracy. How would you feel if you were restricted from the freedom to move about in your own country?

Why, Advocate?

Please read the book " The Other Side of Israel" by Susan Nathan (she's a Jew) who lives in a small Palestinian village in Israel. She describes the living conditions in her village.

Please.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Oh please, cut the BS. Yes, I have been to Israel. You and I both know that the fences, checkpoints, etc., are the doing of the Pals; i. e., made necessary by the constant bombings and other attacks on innocent Israelis. Israelis are not stupid sheep -- they will fight their enemies just like anyone else.

Before the '67 war, Israel essentially never set foot in the WB and Gaza. Notwithstanding this, it was attacked hundreds of time by the Pals. It is the Pals who wish to destroy Israel and take its land.

WAKE UP AND TELL THE TRUTH FOR CHANGE.

1 Reply

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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