ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

@cicerone imposter,

What restrictions are there in Israel proper for Israeli citizens. Pals from outside Israel proper have no legal right to free access to Israel. They are primarily restricted because they blow up pizza parlors, buses, bingo halls, etc. What is wrong with that.

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@Advocate,

Advocate, You have not read or understood many of the evidence posted on this thread about the restrictions of movement placed on Palestinians in Israel.
You are not only deaf and dumb, but refuse to acknowledge facts stated by many "who have first hand information" about Israel. There is no way to convince people like you about living conditions for the Palestinians of Israel.

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@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Ican, why write this pointless tosh?

It is no more pointless than the claims by some here that the Jews stole part of Palestine from the Arabs in 1948. It is a pointless claim, because neither the Palestinian Arabs or the Palestinian Jews owned Palestine since the end of the 11th century prior to 1948.

Subsequent to the UN recommending that Palestine be divided into two nations--one for the Palestinian Arabs and one for the Palestinian Jews--the Palestinian Jews declared Israel in Palestine an independent nation. Then the Arabs attempted to steal Israel for themselves. Then the Jews responded by counterattacking the Arabs and saved Israel for themselves, plus sttealing some land from the Palestinian Arabs to better protect their future security. Had the Arabs ceased trying to steal Israel from the Palestinian Jews, the Palestinian Jews would have returned the land they stole from the Palestinian Arabs back to the Palestinian Arabs. In fact, some of that land has already been returned by the Palestinian Jews to the Palestinian Arabs in the unjustified expectation the Palestinian Arabs would cease trying to steal Israel from the Palestinian Jews.

To this day, the Palestinian Arabs continue to try to steal Israel from the Palestinian Jews.

I think the Palestinian Jews should do whatever they think is required to prevent the Palestinian Arabs from stealing Israel from the Palestinian Jews.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Advocate, You have not read or understood many of the evidence posted on this thread about the restrictions of movement placed on Palestinians in Israel.
You are not only deaf and dumb, but refuse to acknowledge facts stated by many "who have first hand information" about Israel. There is no way to convince people like you about living conditions for the Palestinians of Israel.

I think the word "steal" has been used without definition in many of these topical threads. Israel HAS built Jewish communities on land that Palestineans consider their land; however, Israel never annexed that land. Sort of like the ISRAELI ARABS LIVING ON THE LAND THAT IS ACTUALLY THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

One can also think, if one gives Israel the benefit of the doubt, that Israel is setting the stage for a pluralistic two state solution. And therefore, the Arabs would be expected to reciprocate in kind, with more than just Arabs in the Palestinean state.

However, the wide-spread belief may be that only Jews have to share their state with others, not vice versa, I believe?

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@ican711nm,

i can, Keep your history straight and in perspective if you can. The Jews have been taking over Palestinian property at will through what they deem as their "legal" right with no legal rights for the Palestinians. The Jews have been building settlements on Palestinian property for all the periods you mention. You are also one of "those" ignorant SOBs who will never understand what "democracy" or "apartheid" really means in Israel.

Read Susan Nathan's "The Other Side of Israel." You "might" learn something which I highly doubt.

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@cicerone imposter,

You can see through all the concrete walls, razor fences, and the control points in Israel if your life depended on it, because you are blind.

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@cicerone imposter,

Jerusalem land seizures 'illegal'
Israel's attorney general has told the government to call an immediate halt to confiscating Palestinian property in East Jerusalem under a 1950 land law.

Meni Mazuz said he was never consulted about the policy, which was secretly approved by the cabinet last summer.

He wrote to the finance minister saying the law could not be used for people absent from their property because of Israeli security measures.

The legislation entitles Israel to take Arab-owned land without compensation.

Palestinians say the cabinet decision was meant to allow the takeover of thousands of hectares of Palestinian-owned land around Jerusalem and cement Israel's control over the occupied eastern half of the city.

Hundreds of hectares have been seized in recent months, say lawyers for Palestinian landowners.

The United States has expressed concern about Israel's decision to apply the 1950 Absentee Property Law after it was brought to light last month.

A meeting between top Israeli envoy Dov Weisglass and US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is thought to have discussed the issue on Monday.

Not defensible

Mr Mazuz ruled that reviving the long-dormant law was illegal, justice ministry spokesman Jacob Galanti told journalists.

"Mazuz gave his opinion to ministers that this decision is not legally defensible, that it cannot stand up to either Israeli or international law," he said.

Many of the Palestinian "absentees" affected by implementation of the 55-year-old law are cut off from their land by new structures like roads to Jewish settlements and Israel's separation barrier, which has been deemed illegal by the International Court of Justice.

The law was originally devised to expropriate property belonging to the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who fled their homes during the conflict that accompanied the creation of Israel in 1948.

Israel captured East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan in the 1967 war.

It then expanded Jerusalem's municipal boundaries into the West Bank and annexed the enlarged eastern Jerusalem, a move not recognised internationally.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4226497.stm

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Ever since 1948 when Israel declared its independence, Palestinian Arabs have been continually trying to steal Israel. In retaliation, Israel has from time to time been stealing Palestinian property outside of Israel, and occassionally giving some of it back.

The Palestinian Arabs have said they will not stop trying to steal Israel. So it would be smart of the Israelis to not stop stealing Palestinian property outside of Israel until they have managed to steal all of it.

The only thing that can stop Israel from stealing more Palestinian property outside of Israel is the Palestinian Arabs stopping trying to steal Israel.

Quote:

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/
http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged
Main Entry: 2bsteal
...
Function: verb
...
intransitive verb
1 : to practice theft : take the property of another
...
transitive verb
1 a : to take and carry away feloniously and usually unobserved : take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully
...
b : to appropriate (as another's conception or invention) and use as one's own
...
c : to take away by force or unjust or underhand means : deprive one of
...
d archaic : ABDUCT, KIDNAP
...
f : to take over : ADOPT, BORROW
...
g : to appropriate entirely to oneself or beyond one's proper share
...
2 a : to move, convey, or introduce secretly : SMUGGLE
...
b : to aim furtively : direct secretly
...
c : to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner
...
3 : to use (an interval of time) for an unscheduled, irregular, or secret purpose
...
4 a : to win away (as by persuasion or deception) : ENTICE
...
b : to take possession of gradually and imperceptibly : withdraw or remove stealthily -- often used with away
...
5 : to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring
...
synonyms PILFER, FILCH, PURLOIN, LIFT, PINCH, SNITCH, SWIPE, COP: these have in common the sense of to take another's possession without right, without his knowledge or observation. STEAL, the commonest and most general of the group, can refer to any act of taking without right although it suggests strongly a furtiveness or secrecy in the act
...

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@ican711nm,

Ican, why write this pointless tosh? It only shows you up as a numbskull.

1 Reply

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Ican, why write this pointless tosh? It only shows you up as a numbskull.

QED: McTag is a slandering bigot.

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@ican711nm,

ican doesn't understand that there can't be such a charge as "slandering bigot." It's because ican doesn't understand the definition of either word. I'd call ican a blubbering idiot. That's not slander; it's fact.

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@ican711nm,

The UN, with the agreement of the British who owned Palestine, in 1947, gave some of Palestine to the Palestinian Arabs, and gave some of Palestine to the Palistinian Jews. The Palestinian Jews declared the independence of their part of Palestine and called it Israel. Then the Palestinian Arabs tried repeatedly to steal Israel. After each attempt by the Palestinian Arabs to steal Israel, the Israelis stole land from the Palestinian Arabs to protect Israel from being stolen by the Palestinian Arabs..

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

It is telling that you failed to answer my question.

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@ican711nm,

McTag wrote:
Ican, why write this pointless tosh? It only shows you up as a numbskull.

Quote:

QED: McTag is a slandering bigot.

No, I told you, a bringer of wisdom and truth, but one with a poor opinion of Ican.

Much informed and intelligent Israeli opinion is now recognising that the current course of the military is stupid.
I agree with that, and would add other adjectives too of course.
This is not antisemitic nor anti-Israeli. The political course has to change, or things will get worse there.

1 Reply

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Much informed and intelligent Israeli opinion is now recognising that the current course of the military is stupid.
I agree with that, and would add other adjectives too of course.
This is not antisemitic nor anti-Israeli. The political course has to change, or things will get worse there.

In my opinion, a possible purpose of the military incursion was to teach an object lesson to the Palestineans. That being, while Israel may not react when rockets are fired for days, weeks, months, or years, when Israel does get around to reacting, and they will, the reaction will be more than one would have guessed. That puts an enemy in the position of not being able to judge the consequences of any hostile action. It could be an inducement for long term cessation of hostilities. Or not, if an enemy chooses to have no learning curve for an object lesson. That can possibly show the world that a very belligerant enemy needs to be dealt with by the world, not just by one adversary.

I am sure that some people are reading this to mean that Israel is the belligerant enemy. That is understandable, since some people do side with the Palestineans from the get go.

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@Advocate,

Advocate, What is really telling is your ignorance of why Israel needs cement walls, razor fences, and check points. Think about that for awhile; it might sink into your grey matter. The answer is obvious to most "thinking people."

0 Replies

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

The UN, with the agreement of the British who owned Palestine, in 1947, gave some of Palestine to the Palestinian Arabs, and gave some of Palestine to the Palistinian Jews. The Palestinian Jews declared the independence of their part of Palestine and called it Israel. Then the Palestinian Arabs tried repeatedly to steal Israel. After each attempt by the Palestinian Arabs to steal Israel, the Israelis stole land from the Palestinian Arabs to protect Israel from being stolen by the Palestinian Arabs..

The anti-Israel crowd refuses to see that it was not the Israelis who founded Israel where it is, but rather the UK who controlled the land at the time and ceded it, and the UN who authorized the partition of that same land. There was no 'nation' and no recognized 'government' other than the British government occupying that land at the time this was done.

Okay there is room to debate whether land taken from the enemy following military attack planned and initiated by that same enemy can be kept. Or should it be returned to the enemy.

Most anti-Israel people think it wasn't Israel's land to begin with; therefore it must be given back. Over the decades since the attack on Israel that resulted in that particular problem, every time Israel has given back the land, the enemy uses that very land to continue attacks on Israel.

So, the only options I've seen offered in all these months and pages of this thread:

a) Israel fights back and takes whatever measures are necessary to protect its citizens, - or

b) Israel adopts the attitude that its citizens must be at perpetual risk from suicide bombers, rocket attacks, etc., a situation that would be tolerable to no other country anywhere - or

c) Israel opens its borders and allows itself to be overrun by people who hate the Jews and will most like install abject poverty and deprivation and discrimination and/or violence against the Jews as is evident in the countries they will come from - or

d) Israel closes up shop and the people who do not want to live under dictatorships or depotism find someplace else to live.

Most anti-Israel types seem to approve Options C or D. But they say they aren't anti-Israel.

It just leaves a body shaking his or her head.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

What relevance does having "found" a country have to do with the issues at hand today?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Here, Asvocate and fox, check out these photos comparing Nazi Germany and Israel of today. I'm as sure you will interpret the pictures in a way that is unique in every way.

Posted by Zippo.
http://able2know.org/topic/128197-1

1 Reply

Zippo's photo show is as dishonest in its implications as are many here who condemn Jews for doing what they must to protect innocent men, women, and children in Israel. No doubt he sees the Jews as no different from Nazis and that is anti-semitic.

2 Replies

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