ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Foxfyre, of course you gotta blame the messenger. This one is from UPI but you can blame them for telling the truth too. ISRAEL GAVE MAJOR AID TO HAMAS
Saturday, 24 February 2001 11:28 (ET)
By RICHARD SALE, Terrorism Correspondent
NEW YORK, Feb. 24 (UPI) -- link

I didn't blame the messenger. I reported on the messenger. There is a difference. And there is a difference between writing what happened and putting an obvious pro-Arab, anti-Israel slant on it too.

Anyway your most recent link is to a different messenger. That Israel would have backed Hamas, one terrorist, organization, against their most insiduous threat, the PLO, another terrorist organization, back in the 1970's is not at all unusual or even insiduous. In the 1970's the USA built up Iran and maintained an embassy in Tehran until Khomeini raided it and took the staff captives during the Carter administration. By the 1980's we were financially assisting Iraq to keep it strong enough to successfully keep a growing Iranian threat busy, but of course we also created a monster we had to deal with more recently.

You will be hard put to name any country of any global significance who has not backed a questionable group or character at some point in its history. It is almost always to gain favor or a bribe for some purpose or to insure that a bad egg doesn't get strong enough to become a serious problem.

There is rarely any need to slant anything "pro-Arab, anti-Israel;" apartheid speaks for itself without any editorializing - for most humans.

What BS! With this garbage, you destroy what little credibility you had.

You are correct!

The mass murderers of Israelis among the Palestinians want to end and are trying to end Israel's existence in Palestine. They have zero tolerance for any nation state they evolve in Palestine having to co-exist with Israel.

Understandably, in their own self-defense the Israelis want to separate themselves from those mass murdering Palestinians.

Advocate, I remember when Rabin shook Arafat's hand. He was shaking the hand of a terrorist. And likewise Arafat was shaking the hand of a terrorist. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Both won the Nobel Peace Prize. I remember calls Rabin's assassination by fundamentalist Rabbis who said it was G-d's commands that called for the death of any man trading land for peace. I remember Netanyahoo giving speeches before banners calling for Rabin's death. Netanyahoo did not chastise those bearing the banners. I remember "Leah Rabin directly placed the blame for her husband's assassination on the Likud party and its anti-peace rhetoric.[5] Leah Rabin declared that the assassin was incited to violence by the vicious language of Likud's silver-tongued leader, Benjamin Netanyahu." Those who say Israel has a right to defend herself leave out this part, Palestinians also have a right to defend themselves. Since their election Hamas has been a much more honest negotiating partner for peace than has the government of Israel which has no desire at all for peace or a 2 state solution. Imperialism is their aim. An Israeli Manifest Destiny.

Foxfyre, . "That Israel would have backed Hamas, one terrorist, organization, against their most insiduous threat, the PLO, another terrorist organization, back in the 1970's is not at all unusual or even insiduous." So now you admit but justify a Likud/Hamas connection. Funny how Israel and America have funded Hamas, Saddam, bin Laden. They have no intention of winning war or making peace. War is how they make a buck and control the chaos and their people. As Kissinger said, ""Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

Sir, I defy you to find a single credible source that will even suggest, much less testify that Bejamin Netanyahu at any time EVER called for Rabin's death or for any sort of harm to befall Rabin. It is true that Netanyahu bitterly opposed Rabin's collaborations with the Palestinian leadership, but following Rabin's death, Netanyahu said this:


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/916682.html

No amount of pro-Palestinian sympathy or anti-Semitism or anti-Israel ferver justifies telling a lie such as Netanyahu wanting Rabin to be dead.

Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel

By Haaretz Service and Reuters

The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.

"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor." http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/975574.html That's Netanyahu and that's his American PNAC cohorts who said a new Pearl Harbor would help them sell their war plans to America.

my view about Blueflame is high

Netanyahu is not qualified to kiss the feet of BLUEFLAME
Any taker's for this objective views?
Dare to confront
Rama

Foxfyre, are you calling the widow Rabin a liar? She had a better seat at the affair than you or I.

Blue posits that Rabin's distraught widow blamed Likud; thus, it must be true that Likud is responsible for ONE innocent's life.

On the other hand, Hamas is a mass murderer of innocents, and continues to murder as many as possible.

Advocate, the innocents killed by Israel are a far greater mass. It's very much David and Goliath. Hamas has made serious overtures towards peace since their election and that made them a far greater threat to Israeli imperialism than any acts of violence ever did. As for Leah Rabin she was far from the only one linking Netanyahu to the assassins. David Levy said, "Netanyahu feels comfortable with extremists. He whips them up and incites them. Netanyahu and his people are the ones who turned [a protest rally] into a dangerous fascist extravaganza." That's exactly what Leah was talking about.

Blue, tell me you are joking when you say that Hamas made serious peace overtures. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hamas has consistently said that they stand for the total destruction of Israel.

If she said that Netanyahu called for Rabin's death, then yes, I am calling her a liar. So far you have not provided one shred of credible evidence to support that she accused Netanyahu of that nor any evidence that he said it. If he had, it would have made every front page in this country.

Advocate, either you been living off the planet or just not paying attention to the daily news or just outright lying. Before the election Hamas maintined a unilateral cease fire for 16 months. They've since pushed for a long term cease fire along with negotiations on a 2 state solution using the same 1967 borders every peace plan calls for. The Israeli government, in defiance of the overwhelming majority of Israeli citizens has no intention of making such a peace. And yes Rabin is an outstanding example of that. Before all hell broke out on Gaza Hamas was working with international peacemakers towards resolution and Shin Bet made damn sure that wouldn't happen. Hamas seeking peace is a far greater threat to imperialistic Zionist war mongers than a Hamas bent on war. Here's the history. I remember it as it happened and I'm sure you'll scramble to say it aint so somehow. In doing so you'll be putting yourself above truth and great people like Rabbi Froman who achieved what imperialistic Israelis most fear by bringing Hamas to the negotiating table. "The day before the tanks rolled into Gaza, Froman had been due to launch an extraordinary peace initiative at a news conference in Jerusalem with Muhamed Abu Tir, the Hamas MP, Khaled Abu Arafa, the Palestinian minister for Jerusalem, and three Israeli rabbis.

The panel was to have made a collective call for the release of Corporal Gilad Shalit, the beginning of a process to release all Palestinian prisoners, and the immediate start of negotiations with Hamas on the framework for a peace deal based on 1967 borders.

They would also have announced that Jewish and Muslim religious leaders could achieve peace where Israel's politicians had failed.

But the response from Israel's security establishment was crushing.

Hours before the meeting was due to start, the Shin Bet detained Abu Tir and Abu Arafa and warned them not to attend the meeting. The news conference's organisers were forced to contact the other rabbis ?- who were already on the road to Jerusalem ?- and tell them not to come.

Instead of a triumphant statement of mutual respect and dialogue, a subdued and gently defiant three-man panel fended off aggressive questioning from an unruly Israeli press pack.

Nelsen continues by pointing out that Froman's efforts at finding common ground with Hamas is truly threatening to the Israeli government because it would put pressure on it to negotiate in good faith and make real concessions in order to achieve peace:

Two days after the news conference, Abu Tir and Abu Arafa were kidnapped by Israeli forces, along with a third of the Hamas cabinet. Four days later, Israel revoked both men's citizenship and residency rights in Jerusalem. As the Jerusalem Post headline put it: Shin Bet foils Hamas-Jewish meeting.

An even more accurate headline might have been the one Israel National Radio's Arutz Sheva website ran a few days later, pertaining to another story: The peace process is a bigger danger than Hamas.

In this opinion piece, Ted Belman said that "the threat of rockets raining down on Israel from Gaza isn't nearly the threat that the peace process was and is" because peace talks would require Israeli concessions.

To give some perspective, Belman, one of the powers behind right-wing pro-Israel blog Israpundit actually finds the Qassam rockets fired into Israel useful in some warped way since it means (according to him) that there will be less pressure on Israel to negotiate with the Palestinians." link

Foxfyre, there is more than one way to say something and still give yourself plausible deniability. David Levy said, "Netanyahu feels comfortable with extremists. He whips them up and incites them. Netanyahu and his people are the ones who turned [a protest rally] into a dangerous fascist extravaganza." That's exactly what Leah was talking about.

http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=1582

Latest brilliant quote from Jimmy Carter:

"When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that's the dictator, because he speaks for all the people."[/size]

http://www.liberallyconservative.com/

And what would David Levy's motive be for saying such a thing? And what is Netanyahu's side of that story? That's a really good first step to achieve plausibility.

When there isn't a Fascist bone in Netanyahu's body that I can see from anything in this man's actions, words, or history, a prhase such as 'dangerous facist extravaganza' doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in the truth of anybody's propaganda. I know there isn't a lot of love lost between Levy and Netanyahu, but that is neither unusual between opposing factions within a government nor is it a crime.