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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 10:55 pm
Quote:
The United Nations Interim Force In Lebanon, or UNIFIL, was created by the United Nations, with the adoption of Security Council Resolution 425 and 426 on 19 March 1978, to confirm Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon (following its incursion a few days earlier in Operation Litani), restore the international peace and security, and help the Lebanese Government restore its effective authority in the area. The first UNIFIL troops arrived in the area on 23 March 1978; these troops were reassigned from other UN peacekeeping operations in the area (namely UNEF and UNDOF).

When Israel invaded Lebanon again in 1982 (1982 Lebanon War), U.N. positions were overrun. During the occupation, UNIFIL's function was mainly the provision of food and aid to locals in Southern Lebanon. Beginning in 1985, Israel scaled back its permanent positions in Lebanon, although this process was punctuated by brief invasions and bombings, as in the 1993 Operation Accountability and the 1996 Operation Grapes of Wrath. In 1999, it undertook a full withdrawal, which concluded in 2000 and enabled UNIFIL to resume its military tasks. The Syrian and Lebanese governments claim that the Shebaa Farms area, which Israel and others in the international community view as part of the occupied Golan Heights, is Lebanese territory. They contend that this dispute gives continued legal sanction to armed anti-Israeli groups in Lebanon (though the UN has officially certified that Israel has fully withdrawn from all areas it occupied after 1973). At the request of the country of Lebanon in January 2006, the UN extended UNIFIL's mandate to expire July 31, 2006.

UNIFIL is tasked with achieving the following objectives:

Confirm the withdrawal of Israeli forces from southern Lebanon;
Restore international peace and security;
Assist the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of its effective authority in the area.
Additionally, the 2006 mandate extension required assisting the Lebanese government in establishing a "monopoly" on military action, adding impetus to disarm Hizbullah guerillas.

UNIFIL is currently primarily deployed along the U.N. drawn Blue Line dividing Israel (and the Israeli Golan Heights) and southern Lebanon. Its activities have centred around monitoring military activity between Hezbollah and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) with the aim of reducing tensions and allaying continuing low-level armed conflict. UNIFIL has also played an important role in clearing landmines, assisting displaced persons, and providing humanitarian assistance in this underdeveloped region.

UNIFIL currently (30 April 2006) employs 1991 soldiers, some 50 UNTSO observers and 390 civilians.[1] The force includes troops from China, France, Finland, Ghana, India, Ireland, Italy and Poland. Its annual budget is about US$100 million. UNIFIL is led by French Major General Alain Pellegrini, formerly French military attache in Beirut and head of the mideast division of the French military intelligence.

To date UNIFIL has suffered 261 fatalities (of which 12 civilians) during the course of its deployment.

Debate over UNIFIL presence
UNIFIL forces have fallen out of favour in Israel and claims that little regard has been given to their safety by the IDF[2][3] following accusations that it was complicit in a fatal abduction of IDF soldiers in October 2000. Suspicions persist although the UN has published a report denying complicity[4].

Prior to the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict of July 2006, Israel had been lobbying for UNIFIL to either take a more active role vis-a-vis Hezbollah (for example, preventing Hezbollah from setting up military posts adjacent to UNIFIL's in the hope this will deter Israel from attacking them), or to step out of the region (thereby voiding the Lebanese government's excuse for not deploying its army along the border).[5]

With the eruption of open warfare, UNIFIL's utility has been called into question over accusations that it has failed to fulfill the terms of its mandate. There is currently some debate over the need for a replacement UN Peacekeeping force. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has also asked the UN to enforce UN Resolution 1559, which calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias," as one of its prime considerations in accepting a cease-fire.

[edit]
Conflict with Israeli forces
According to UNIFIL Press Releases, there have been dozens of such incidents of UN posts coming under fire, mainly from the Israeli side, during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict. [6]

An Israeli tank shell hit a UNIFIL position in southern Lebanon on Monday 24 July 2006, wounding four Ghananian soldiers. Additionally, Israel's efforts to hamper Hizballah resupply were countered when UNIFIL engineers from China repaired a road connecting Tyre and Naqoura.[7]
Shrapnel from tank shells fired by the IDF seriously wounded an Indian soldier on July 16, 2006[8]
On 25 July 2006 four UN peacekeepers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland were killed in an Israeli air strike on a UN observation post in southern Lebanon. UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said he was "shocked" at the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the post. According to the UN, the four had taken shelter in a bunker under the post. The site was shelled a total of 14 times by Israeli artillery[9] throughout the day, in apparent defiance of ten requests for ceasefire made by the UN troops via telephone. Later, a rescue team was also shelled as it tried to clear the rubble. "I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces of a UN Observer post in southern Lebanon," Mr Annan said in a statement from Rome. [10]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIFIL

Well, I guess Foxfrye, your question is answered. They haven't done much good in the way of disarming Hezbollah.

We have crime in our cities which we pay taxes for, perhaps we should just shut down our police force? Maybe the police is in cohoots with the criminals. I know I am using straw man, shame on me. Late night.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 10:58 pm
http://i7.tinypic.com/213kp00.jpg

The summit fails. War rages
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 11:10 pm
I am rarely up on the internet this late at night, but I saw that as well walter. This one was worse, its going to sound fake, but it really did bring tears to my eyes.

Quote:
Lebanon's prime minister, Fouad Siniora, made what Ms Rice described an "impassioned appeal" to the summit. "Is the value of human rights in Lebanon less than that of citizens elsewhere?" he asked. "Are we children of a lesser god? Is an Israeli teardrop worth more than a drop of Lebanese blood?"

Mr Siniora also pleaded for an immediate and comprehensive ceasefire. "The more we delay the ceasefire, the more we are going to witness more being killed, more destruction and more aggression against the civilians in Lebanon," he told the press conference. "For the past 15 days, we are being pounded every day. The country is being cut to pieces."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1831069,00.html

Well, the later I stay up the worse I get, so I guess I will read a book.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 11:16 pm
Let me figure this out, Walter. Hezbollah pulls off a few surprise punches, the opponent wakes up and lands a couple punches, Hezbollah hollers "time out." The opponent is supposed to quit right then and there, talk for a while, take their gloves off, while Hezbollah rests up and gets ready to land a few more surprise punches. Meanwhile nobody demands Hezbollah remove their gloves and get rid of them, change out of their boxing gear, and go acquire another line of work. No, instead the referees demand Israel, stop, sit down, talk, and wait for the next surprise punch. It was Israel's fault for fighting back. Walter, have I got this all correct in my understanding of the situation?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 11:32 pm
okie wrote:
It was Israel's fault for fighting back. Walter, have I got this all correct in my understanding of the situation?


Don't know, might be.

Besides, that I favour a cease-fire, I'm more with the view as to be read in today's Israelian papers, which heavily critisise the IDF's stragegy

http://i7.tinypic.com/213m4yg.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 11:59 pm
Four analysises by The Jerusalem Post:

http://i7.tinypic.com/213nes5.jpg

Analysis: The need to show a victory

Analysis: With America watching, Israel needs a knockout

Analysis: How the Arab world views the conflict

Analysis: Not just a strategic asset
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 12:28 am
If Israel agrees to ceasefire now, Hezbollah wins, and they win to fight again another day, probably sooner than later, and the win is made more one sided if they keep the soldier prisoners. Israel not only needs to land a crippling blow to Hezbollah, but they should, to at least slow them down a bit and give them pause to seriously consider the consequences of their action.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 12:36 am
okie wrote:
Israel not only needs to land a crippling blow to Hezbollah, but they should, to at least slow them down a bit and give them pause to seriously consider the consequences of their action.


The actual aim was to "destroy" them, which is now officially down to "weaken" them.

(The original aim, though, was to free those two soldiers.)
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 05:12 am
This is choice, his side starts a war then he calls for worldwide jihad because it was replied to.

Quote:
DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda's deputy leader Ayman al Zawahri warned his group would not stand by and watch Israel bombard Lebanon and the Palestinians, calling on Muslims in a video aired on Thursday to fight attacks on their countries.

Zawahri, in the tape aired by Al Jazeera television, did not say how al Qaeda would respond to the fighting.

"How can we remain silent while watching bombs raining on our people," he asked. "Oh Muslims everywhere, I call on you to fight and become martyrs in the war against the Zionists and the Crusaders," Zawahri said in the statement which was entitled "The Zionist-crusader war on Lebanon and the Palestinians".

Zawahri's statement was the first comment by the Sunni Muslim-dominated al Qaeda against Israel's war on Lebanon which was sparked by the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Shi'ite Muslim guerrilla group Hizbollah.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 06:02 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:



You might want to take a good look at what you are actually dealing with:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2171673#2171673

It is important that Hezbollah be either annihilated, or so thoroughly beaten that nobody looks up to them, and if George Bush and Tony Blair are against the whole world on that issue, all it means is that the whole world is wrong and needs to be taught a lesson.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 06:27 am
foxfyre wrote
Quote:
I have not suggested the UN obsservers were underachieving. I asked what their mission was.


Please. Let us procede with as much honesty as we can muster, acknowledging that we'll both have some blind spots or prejudices coming out of our differing ideas.

All of this conversation sits within a larger disagreement regarding the value of the UN. We are both well aware of the position held generally by the 'modern american right' (and acutely by this administration) and the history of this position going back through Shafley and earlier. We are both well aware that you share this notion, at least in the main. Also, that I don't share it. What non-Americans do share it? In as little as two or three decades, China may very well be both wealthier and more militarily powerful than the US. The present administration's policies bent on disempowering the UN and other internationalist bodies will appear deeply imprudent when the US is surpassed - an inevitability.

That you even posed the questions re that UN force in Lebanon stems less from a concern about tax dollars than from your notions about the value of the UN in the world. That is so, yes? Even if the UN was funded by everyone other than American citizens your concerns here would be much the same, true?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 06:34 am
We all know what happened the last time most of the world was against Bush and Blair, seems to me the lessons that should be learned should be on those who keep making the same kind of mistakes.

This is what Israel, the United States, Britian are forcing the Lebanese citizens to endure more of.

http://voanews.com/english/images/apIsraelLebanon26Jul06210.jpg

http://voanews.com/english/2006-07-26-voa64.cfm

We are no better than the terrorist.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 10:09 am
Israelian Justice Minister Haim Ramon said today that yesterday's decision by key world powers in Rome (here: USA and UK) not to call for a halt to its Lebanon offensive has given it the green light to continue.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 10:34 am
blatham wrote:
foxfyre wrote
Quote:
I have not suggested the UN obsservers were underachieving. I asked what their mission was.


Please. Let us procede with as much honesty as we can muster, acknowledging that we'll both have some blind spots or prejudices coming out of our differing ideas.

All of this conversation sits within a larger disagreement regarding the value of the UN. We are both well aware of the position held generally by the 'modern american right' (and acutely by this administration) and the history of this position going back through Shafley and earlier. We are both well aware that you share this notion, at least in the main. Also, that I don't share it. What non-Americans do share it? In as little as two or three decades, China may very well be both wealthier and more militarily powerful than the US. The present administration's policies bent on disempowering the UN and other internationalist bodies will appear deeply imprudent when the US is surpassed - an inevitability.

That you even posed the questions re that UN force in Lebanon stems less from a concern about tax dollars than from your notions about the value of the UN in the world. That is so, yes? Even if the UN was funded by everyone other than American citizens your concerns here would be much the same, true?


To say that I'm PARTICULARLY concerned about U.S. tax dollars going to UN projects any more than I am concerned about any other U.S. tax dollars going to inefficient, ineffective programs/organizations/projects etc. would not be accurate.

That the U.S. is supposed to take the UN and its resolutions and suggested mandates seriously when the UN seems to think just saying the words is somehow useful and no enforcement is possible or desirable is a really big issue with me. I put function before form in just about all circumstances.

What triggered this whole line of thought was the idea that the UN has any authority to tell Israel what it must do in the matter of Hezbollah/Lebanon when the UN has done nothing, at least that is apparent, to enforce or uphold its own resolution. It would appear that Israel has done its part to effect peace under the UN resolution(s) regarding 'land for peace' and other initiatives. And Hezbollah has not done its part which was to disarm and stop terrorist attacks on Israel.

So again, I think the question is quite valid. If the UN cannot enforce its own resolutions, then what good are they? If UN peace keepers are not authorized or equipped to keep the peace, then can we say they are peace keepers? If they are to observe and report and fail to do so, then what good are they?

And it is specially pertinent in the issue of whether Israel can reasonably and ethically take whatever measures it needs to take to protect and defend itself if it cannot depend on the larger community to have concern for the defense and protection of Israel. And this fits into the extended issue of whether Israel is in fact behaving disproportionately to defend and protect itself.

All these I think are reasonable questions that reasonable people can expect to discuss, consider, and to be answered. And I don't think it is helpful or useful to excoriate those asking the questions. Especially when it's me.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 10:57 am
The resolutionm which started UNTSO (that's the UN unit to which those killed soldiers were attached) in 50 (1948).

This and more info - like why they are there etc - can easily be found at the UNTSO homepage.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 10:58 am
revel wrote:
All we know is that is that is that they failed to disarm the non Lebanese militants in Lebanon which was one of their mandates. We do not know if they failed to report ECT... once again you inject your own suppositions. Blatham is right; you do have a well known pet peeve (along with many others) with the UN so about anything you say about the UN can be taken with that in mind.


Personally I think you are waste of time in talking to after having responded to something that you have said once or twice; you just go around in circles.


I definitely have a HUGE pet peeve re the UN. I believe it to be an enormous, mostly ineffetive, mostly corrupt organization that is dominated by those who utilize it for their own self interests.

But your (and Blatham's) insertion of my 'supposition' is just plain off base. I don't know whether the UN people in Lebanon have done their job or accomplished anything useful. I would be an expensive steak dinner that you don't either. So far nobody has been able to tell me what their job actually was other than in the most general and unuseful terms. I think it is reasonable to ask questions about that. And I think it is unreasonable for you or anybody else to suggest there should be no questions asked or to pronounce judgment on those who would presume to do so.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 11:01 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I don't know whether the UN people in Lebanon have done their job or accomplished anything useful.


Well, four were killed. At least, their death was useful for discussing it.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 11:05 am
In Iraq when the UN sites were being targeted the UN decided to leave, I'm sure they will pull these employees from Lebanon if they really felt they were targeted.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 11:11 am
During the last years, they had had 44 fatalities in total, and no-one said they should leave.

Even Australia only withdraws a couple of its soldiers from some of the camps in the firelines, not from the war zone itself.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 11:14 am
I think I figured it out.

Countries like Israel and the US are civilized and modern. They have modern technology, they use modern weapons, they have modern schools, think think modern thoughts. In the mind of the liberal, that means they should behave in such a way that things like war and hunger and poverty are beneath them.

Liberals have no such expectations of organizations like Hezbollah, al Qaeda, or other Muslim extremist or terrorist organizations. To the liberal, it is almost expected that Hezbollah will strike Israel repeatedly, but they believe that Israel should react in a modern way. Perhaps having the terrorists over for coffee and sticky buns while they negotiate bringing the poor, misguided terrorists into the modern era. To actually strike at, and worse, destroy such backwards people is the ultimate sin to liberals, as it shows a regression from modern, more thoughtful and intellectual times to the backwards tactics that they use.

Therefore, the liberal gets to scorn countries like the US and Israel, while nodding with almost approval of the tactics used by the back-water, has no alternative terrorist.

I think that about sums it up. Liberals expect terrorists to act like uncivilized pigs and get mad when the US and Israel react violently when terrorists strike.
0 Replies
 
 

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