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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2007 03:08 pm
Ah you're in fine form today, OE . . . you crack me up.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2007 03:51 pm
It seems that we have a bunch of little nitpickers (if not nose pickers) here. Let's stop the nitpicking and get back to the subject of the thread.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2007 03:54 pm
I was on topic when you started your hissy fit in which you falsely claimed that i had used argumentum ad hominem against Ican't. I refuted that, but you quickly lost interest in discussing your false accusation. You, more than anyone else, are responsible for the hilarity which ensued.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2007 04:02 pm
Setanta wrote:
I was on topic when you started your hissy fit in which you falsely claimed that i had used argumentum ad hominem against Ican't. I refuted that, but you quickly lost interest in discussing your false accusation. You, more than anyone else, are responsible for the hilarity which ensued.



There was no false claim. Regarding the hilarity, I guess the nitpickers and spelling Nazis had a ball.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2007 04:06 pm
Setanta wrote:
I was on topic when you started your hissy fit in which you falsely claimed that i had used argumentum ad hominem against Ican't. I refuted that, but you quickly lost interest in discussing your false accusation. You, more than anyone else, are responsible for the hilarity which ensued.

I just noticed what you allege is your currrent location: "Location: On a rocket to the fourth dimension."

Laughing

Check your watch!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2007 04:07 pm
You claimed that i used argumentum ad hominem against Ican't. You did not prove your case, you didn't even support it. I carefully refuted it. But you can't let it go. That's your problem and not anyone else's problem.

And you continue to miss the point entirely, the irony that if anyone here is using argumentum ad hominem, it is you. With terms like moron, nitpicker, nose-picker, Nazi--you're the one who has substituted personal attack for reason.

If you want to get on with the topic, offer an on-topic comment.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2007 07:42 pm
For many generations jews were the victims of pogroms (i.e., organized massacres of helpless people) principally in eastern and western europe. They eventually tired of that. So they decided to try and set up their own country in the region of their origin. They succeeded in 1948 by establishing the country of Israel within the geographical area called palestine. The country of Israel has been under attack by others in that region ever since.

Israelis have decided they want their country to survive. They tried accomplishing that after 1967 by trading land they conquered in palestine for peace. That didn't work. They have decided to again try and accomplish their survival by killing those killing and trying to kill them.

While this is working better, it is not working any where near well enough to satisfy them.

What do you recommend the Israelis should do instead?

Why do you think what you recommend will work better for Israelis to accomplish the survival of their country?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 07:55 am
Can the Lebanese army fight America's war against terror?
Robert Fisk: Can the Lebanese army fight America's war against terror?
Published: 03 June 2007
Independent UK

On the surface, it all makes sense. A group of radical Islamists fighting the Lebanese army shoot on amid the ruins of Nahr el-Bared refugee camp. Nahr el-Bared means "the cold river", but there is no river. They are shelled by the Lebanese army. In fact, Lebanese Gazelle helicopters machine-gunned them yesterday. Another chapter in the war on terror.

In reality, it is another tragedy in that same conflict (though let's delete the word "terror"). The Gazelles have no rockets - courtesy of the United States, because Israel fears they will be used against its own forces.

The Belgians even offered Leopard tanks - again vetoed by the United States - in case the Lebanese used them against the Israelis. So the Lebanese are armed sufficiently to fight Palestinians, but not enough to fight their enemies on their southern frontier.

Are the Fatah al-Islam gunmen supported by Syria? Probably yes. But a familiar pattern was emerging yesterday. The International Red Cross was asking "all the parties" for a ceasefire, the phrase used so promiscuously during the 1975-1990 civil war in Lebanon, as if the Palestinian gunmen were combatants in a civil conflict, rather than the murderers of 20 Lebanese soldiers more than two weeks ago. Yesterday the BBC was adding to the normality of war, by referring to the "maze of concrete buildings and narrow alleyways" of Nahr el-Bared, as if refugee camps in the Middle East were made of anything else.

So can the Lebanese army really fight America's war in the north of this country? Though composed of Shias, Sunnis, Druze and Christians, it has held together. But it was not created to fight the West's wars in the Middle East. Just over a week ago a secret meeting was held in the south of this country in which intelligence officers from the French, Italian and Spanish governments - based in their embassies in Beirut - sat down and talked to senior officials of the Hizbollah guerrilla movement, Israel's greatest enemies in Lebanon.

They were assured - as they hoped they would be - by Hizbollah that their soldiers in the enlarged peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon would be protected from al-Qa'ida and their friends in Fatah al-Islam. They were also told that if Israel attacked Lebanon again this summer, there would be a far fiercer war than the 34-day conflict last June and July. North of the Litani River - and amid the conflict in northern Lebanon this has gone unreported - the Hizbollah is building new roads and bunkers in preparation for the next battle with Israel.

Because the refugee camps of the north are so isolated, and because Beirut survives, despite the nightly bombings by (as usual) unknown suspects, this country still presents a picture of peace and comparative normality.

But it is in grave peril, and - as in Afghanistan and Iraq - we are continuing to ignore this.

Further reading: "The Great War for Civilisation: the Conquest of the Middle East" by Robert Fisk, HarperCollins
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 02:28 pm
Quote:
Boston Muslims Forgive Israel Advocates
Karin Friedemann
World View News Service

Many celebrated the construction of New England's largest mosque as proof of "the Muslim community coming into its own." Yet not everyone celebrated. In 2004, the City of Boston was sued for selling the land to Muslims. Racist commentators whipped up public hysteria against the mosque.

"Muslims are very upset," said Mushtaque Mirza, who has lived in Boston for 30 years. "The mosque is always depicted as [supporting] terrorism."

The lawsuit against the City was dismissed in 2007, but irreparable damage had already been done. Donations slowed to a trickle, the mosque only half built.

When in 2005, mosque directors Dr. Yousef Abou Allaban and Ossama Kandil sued Fox News and the Boston Herald for defamation, analysis of discovery materials exposed a professionally coordinated network of pro-Israel organizations, mass media, Islamophobic academics, and real estate developers. The directors accused a growing list of defendants, including Steven Emerson, the David Project, and Citizens for Peace and Tolerance (CPT), whose president is Dennis Hale, of "a concerted, well-coordinated effort to deprive ... members of the Boston Muslim community of their basic right of free association and the free exercise of their religion."

The Jewish community
Some Jewish groups kindly distanced themselves from this conspiracy to deprive Muslim Americans of their constitutional rights, which is a federal crime, but Nancy Kaufman, executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Boston, whose stated mission includes minimizing the political influence of groups feared hostile to Israel, stated, "None of those organizations [who signed statements supporting the mosque] are members of the organizations of the JCRC. We don't consider them to be a part of the mainstream Jewish community."

Who is Charles Jacobs?
In 2006, Dr. Yousef Abou-Allaban, chairman of the board of the Islamic Society of Boston, addressed Charles Jacobs, president of the David Project, in an open letter that was quoted in the Boston Globe.

"We would like to know why you and others at the David Project appear to be so intent on inflaming relations between our communities," Abou-Allaban wrote. "Do you really hate us that much?"

Charles Jacobs, like Charles Krauthammer and Richard Perle, earns his living through a speakers' bureau called Benador Associates, which specializes in pro-Israel campus events focusing on Islam and terrorism. Fareeha Iqbal, a student at MIT, attended one of his lectures.

"Dr. Jacobs' talk expressed blatantly racist and anti-Islamic views. In fact, I have never seen Islamophobia exuded so blatantly at a public forum at MIT, nor such racist views aired at a panel discussion on human rights."

A pioneer in the technological aspects of mass-marketing hate, CAMERA, which Jacobs co-founded in 1982 to enforce pro-Israel bias in the news, email blasts tailored "action alerts" to huge databases of specific target groups.

This Polish immigrant, armed with only a BA from Rutgers and a Masters in Education from Harvard has proven exceptionally effective in manipulating the US government and major American institutions into following policy blueprints created by his Israel advocacy organization, the David Project.

The David Project
The David Project is an affiliate member of the Israel on Campus Coalition (ICC), a network of national Jewish organizations, founded in partnership with the Jewish student organization Hillel and the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation. (The three organizations share a building in Washington.) It is essentially an Islamophobia franchisor complete with manuals and training videos.

In October 2003, the David Project funded a film, produced by Ralph Avi Goldwasser, to slander professors Rashid Khalidi, Joseph Massad, Hamid Dabashi, and Georges Saliba of Columbia University's Department of Middle East studies. Joseph Massad became known as one of the most dangerous intellectuals on campus. Calls for the professor's dismissal were issued by Congressman Weiner and by the editors of the Daily News and the New York Sun, and the propaganda film was shown in Israel before a government minister at an anti-Semitism conference.

The David Project regularly places racist anti-Arab and anti-Muslim speakers on Harvard campus, but its first major accomplishment was blocking a $2 million donation from the late president of the United Arab Emirates, Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan al-Nahyan, for a chair in Islamic Studies at the Harvard Divinity School. The Project's 2003 smear campaign, coordinated with the ADL, sought to exclude Arabs and Muslims from developments at Harvard University.

Charles Jacobs smeared Shaykh Zaid's donation to Harvard.

Anti-Sudan Campaigns
Jacobs' pro-Israel advocacy organization spearheaded the campaign to vilify the Islamic Republic of Sudan, and provided huge quantities of lurid, both popular and pseudo-academic material, in which Sudan is described as a "terrorist, genocidal" state engaged in a "holy war." Charles Jacobs' carefully designed "PR puff pieces" about "slavery" in Sudan have managed to secure national media coverage.

While pro-Palestine activists have long struggled to halt public funding of Israel, the dishonest "Save Darfur!" campaign, put together by DP friends and trainees, is the quickest divestment success in history. Sudan divestment resolutions have become law in Iowa and are in the process of approval in 12 states. The JCRC coordinating with the David Project has further poisoned human rights discourse with this effort to turn Arab and African Americans against each other.

ISB Settles Lawsuit
The furor over the Roxbury mosque has exposed the ways Israel advocacy groups pollute discourse on US foreign and domestic policy, which have until now remained mostly invisible to American political scientists.

Two lawyers that were originally helping the David Project, Jonathon Leffel and Jacob Feinberg, apparently had a change of heart and handed over to the Islamic Society of Boston damning evidence against the David Project.

The ISB had always made clear that they would settle if the David Project stopped challenging their right to build the mosque. On May 29, 2007 the David Project offered to withdraw Policastro's appeal, and on May 30, 2007, the Muslim American Society announced that Kandil and Abou Allaban agreed to dismiss their defamation lawsuits.

Every time Jacobs, Kaufman, or Goldwasser look out of the top floor window of the Combined Jewish Philanthropies in downtown Boston, they will see the dome and minaret despite their best efforts to prevent its completion.

Karin Friedemann is editor of World View News Service in Boston, focusing on the Islamic world.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wvns/message/7458
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 02:52 pm
x, this is from a Yahoo group (not exactly a university think tank). I would not give it much credence.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 02:59 pm
Here's a more reliable source.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/05/31/muslim_jewish_leaders_see_fresh_start/
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 03:00 pm
Advocate wrote:
x, this is from a Yahoo group (not exactly a university think tank). I would not give it much credence.


Do you deny any of the material in the article? There are many other sources for much of it.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 03:13 pm
The Boston.com piece is, unlike the other piece, balanced and does not have the anti-Jewish slant. It, unlike the other piece, raises a real issue of possible financial wrong-doing regarding the sale of government land.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 08:25 pm
The first piece didn't have an anti-Jewish slant, unless you choose to see those people who would deny others their right to worship as representative of Jews in general. I don't.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 02:41 am
When you can't attack the message, attack the messenger.

Quote:
David Project
From SourceWatch
The David Project in its own words is:

The David Project is a grassroots initiative that promotes a fair and honest understanding of the Middle East conflict.The David Project was launched in August, 2002 in Boston, MA, in response to the growing ideological assault on Israel. We train people to be pro-active in their Israel advocacy - to counter the unfair and dishonest discourse in our universities, media, and communities.[1]

What others say
The group gained notoriety when it produced a film purporting to prove bias by Columbia Univ. Middle Easter Studies (MEALAC) professors, in particular, Prof. Joseph Massad. The group seeks to influence the composition of the Middle East Departments at universities around the US. It also features speakers on "terrorism" and "anti-semitism". Or as Sara Roy explains:

Quote:

A recent article by Scott Sherman provides further background:

Quote:
The roots of the Columbia conflict can be traced back to campus political developments in 2001 and early 2002. In March 2002 a network of national Jewish organizations met to evaluate what they saw as an alarming rise in anti-Israel activity on campus. From those meetings emerged the Israel on Campus Coalition (ICC), which is a partnership of Hillel and the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation. (The three organizations share a building in Washington.) According to a 2002 article for the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, a Jewish-oriented news service, top-flight talent was brought in to advise the ICC and assemble a battle plan. "Pro-Israel professionals from the elite consulting firm McKinsey & Company offered pro-bono services," the article noted. Those professionals created a document for the ICC arguing that "the primary goal for this year should be to 'take back the campus' by influencing public opinion through lectures, the Internet and coalitions." The ICC--which recently received a $1,050,000 grant from the Schusterman Foundation, and whose speakers list includes Daniel Pipes - has an impressive array of "members": AIPAC, ADL, Americans for Peace Now and the Zionist Organization of America, among others.

The ICC has a single "affiliate member": the David Project. The David Project is led by Charles Jacobs, who is a co-founder of CAMERA, the pro-Israel media watchdog group; the founder of the American Anti-Slavery Group, which calls itself "America's leading human rights group dedicated to abolishing modern day slavery worldwide"; and, along with Richard Perle, Charles Krauthammer and Bill Kristol, among others, a member of the board of advisers of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. The ICC's website lists a number of "regional ICCs" that receive "strategic advice and guidance" from the Washington headquarters. The regional ICC representative in New York is none other than Rachel Fish, the director of the David Project's New York office. Jacobs was tight-lipped in a recent interview: He refused to provide details about his financial backers, referring only to unnamed "individuals and foundations"; and he declined to elaborate on the extent to which the David Project receives tactical advice from professional pro-Israel lobbyists and operatives allied with the ICC.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=David_Project
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 02:43 am
Quote:
Damning Evidence against The David Project
Wednesday, 9 May 2007, 9:26 am
Islamic Society of Boston releases Opposition Emails:
Damning Evidence against The David Project

Summary: The David Project conspired with real estate agents and politicians to organize a campaign to deny the Boston Muslim community their 1st amendment rights to worship freely. This week, Jessica Masse, interfaith coordinator of the Islamic Society of Boston, publicly released recent discovery materials obtained as part of the ISB's conspiracy lawsuit, which reveal that an Israel advocacy organization, which specializes in creating malicious anti-Arab, anti-African and Islamophobic propaganda, met with real estate investors, attorneys, and Republican activists at their office at 210 South Street in Boston to discuss their intentions "to present a legal challenge" to the Roxbury Mosque project.

On May 28, 2004, Anna Kolodner, executive director of the David Project, sent an email congratulating the group for their successful meeting.

"Discussion of issues and individuals involved in the Mosque led to some preliminary steps as we continue to gather information and develop an action plan."

Three days later, Kolodner circulated an idea.

"Given that they may not have parking, Josh [Katzen] suggested we might thwart them through the building permit process for the intended parking."

Joshua Katzen is a member of the team of aggressive real estate developers that wanted to unravel the land deal between the City of Boston and the ISB. Another anti-ISB activist, Jonathon Leffell, who develops property in the Boston area, is chairman of the New England "Friends of the Israel Defense Forces" while William Sapers, who instigated the anti-Mosque campaign and who owns an insurance agency in Cambridge, has invested in real estate under the corporate name Hemisphere Inc. Sapers is a director of the Combined Jewish Philanthropies, which is an umbrella organization for mainstream Jewish communal organizations in Greater Boston. Steve Cohen, owner of CEA Group, another Boston area real estate agency, took the operational lead in the conspiracy against the ISB.

Steve Cohen suggested to Anna Kolodner that the group recruit a Jewish law student from Harvard to assist their attorneys, Evan Slavitt, who is also a Massachusetts Republican Party leader, and business litigator Jack Fainberg.

In on this private discussion were Avi Goldwasser, a hi-tech financier and movie producer who makes outrageously malicious anti-Arab propaganda movies like "Columbia Unbecoming," Larry DiCara, who is a Republican politician, Harvard undergrad Mickey Segal, who is a David Project intern, and Anna Kolodner's husband Monty Gold. Steve Cohen, who is originally from New York, also consulted with Rabbi Melman, a New York-based Israel advocate who opposes ceding an inch of land to the Palestinians.

The emails also mentioned Jeff Jacoby, a regular columnist in the Boston Globe who has been recycling the David Project's press releases and appears to have received Charles Jacobs' Israel advocacy training. He uses Jacobs' method of communication which is suggested on the David Project website. It advises Israel advocates to use a "baffle them with bullshit" technique where the propagandist throws accusers and questioners off track by responding with a nonsensical question. When the person answers, the Israel advocate is advised to respond with another nonsensical question. Jacoby is clearly making use of the David Project's communication guidelines as he uses his column in the Globe and in Jewish newspapers across the country to repeatedly bring up ask insinuating questions about the ISB again and again, even though the ISB has already answered those questions before the last time he asked them, and had offered to sit down and have a chat with him, but Jacoby refused to speak with anyone from the Muslim community while writing his newspaper articles about them! Talk about sloppy journalism.

Initial attempts to whip up public sentiment against the Muslim community received lukewarm reactions. Reporter Jonathon Wells had complained that he was "pissed that none of the other local media had picked up his story."

"Filing the lawsuit would be the initial lead/newsworthy component of the media angles," Anna Kolodner advised him. This would give the David Project a soapbox.

Anna Kolodner put David Project co-founder Charles Jacobs in charge of "enlisting support of the Black Church community in the suit as a possible plaintiff," but commendably, no one in the Black community would participate in their racist plot.

The David Project had to make do with an Italian American who lives in Mission Hill, nowhere near the Roxbury Mosque.

Policastro's suit was dismissed in 2007 by a judge as being "without merit," but the conspirators were not worried about winning the frivolous lawsuit. It had been a ploy to create negative publicity. Real estate investor Steve Cohen gloated over "the fact that a governmental action was taken in Boston may make this mosque more vulnerable to legal, political or media attack."

In this same email, entitled "Conversation with Jon Wells," Cohen mentioned reporter Jonathon Well's divorce and estrangement from his children like a weakness to exploit.

"After I come up with something to report, he and I will have lunch," Cohen bragged.

He also reported more of what he had learned from Wells.

"[T]he ADL is much more concerned and knowledgeable about this matter than their public statements would indicate. But, being associated with various ecumenical [read: interfaith] efforts, they are reluctant to be the lightning rod on this issue. Jon speculates that they would welcome the assistance and initiative of a bunch of independent guys (like us) who are not afraid of getting some bad press."

Steve Cohen described how he had specifically instructed the Fox TV news reporter Jonathon Wells to use language associating the mosque with terrorism.

According to his May 20, 2004 email, Cohen wanted to seek out information about the ISB's source of donations in the Middle East. Depending on the country of origin, the group would create a sensational news story saying the mosque was financed either by "the Wahhabi movement in Saudi Arabia or by the Moslem Brotherhood," which, they would fraudulently claim "advocate the violent victory of Islam over the west [sic]."

Cohen went on about his conversation with Wells. "We both agreed that it would be very powerful if it could be proven that this is the source of the funding for the Mosque."

Cohen repeatedly contacted the executive producer of the Investigative Reporting unit at Fox25 News in Boston to pressure him and in one conversation, instructed Jonathon Wells how to use the Freedom of Information act to obtain records from the Boston Redevelopment Authority about the City's sale of land to the Muslim community.

Cohen further explained his strategy to Anna Kolodner of the David Project:

"Aside from our 1st Amendment claims and the various other strategies to attack the mosque, ultimately our interest is based on the premise that some of the senior people in the ISB are supporters of terrorism and sworn enemies of America and Jews, and that the construction of the mosque may be funded by Wahhabis… If we are going to convince others to support our cause, especially in the media, we will need reasonably well-supported allegations."

The David Project collaborated with Robert Leikind, the executive director of the ADL; Steve Emerson at the Investigative Project and Rita Katz, a discredited former FBI informant at the SITE Institute; Ilana Freedman, a terrorism "expert," Republican politician and managing partner of Gerard Group in Tyngsborough, Massachusetts, to create a "comprehensive document regarding the individuals/organizations/history etc. of the Mosque, which will be the backbone of the media campaign."

This fabrication, labeled "Mosque Characters.doc," lists over twenty Muslim leaders including Dr. Yusef al-Qaradawi, Abdurahman Alamoudi, founder of the American Muslim Council, and various ISB directors with bogus and bizarre links to "the Moslem Brotherhood," Hamas, Hezbollah and Lashkar-e-Tayyaba.

In 2004, the David Project, a 501c3 charitable organization, appears to have received half a million dollars in tax-payer funded government grants while at the same time planning this amazingly well organized campaign to deny the Boston Muslim community their 1st amendment rights to worship freely, according to ISB interfaith director Jessica Masse.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0705/S00149.htm
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 03:05 am
On a side note,do we really want this to be happening...

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/237

Quote:
DEMANDS for a ban on "un-Islamic" activities in schools will be set out by the Muslim Council of Britain today.

Targets include playground games, swimming lessons, school plays, parents' evenings and even vaccinations.

And the calls for all children to be taught in Taliban-style conditions will be launched with the help of a senior Government education adviser


If this article is correct,the school system in London could be in trouble.
Does anyone want this to actually happen?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 06:37 am
Why don't you go piss and moan about the evil Muslims in another thread, MM. This thread is about Israel, the Lebanon and Syria (and secretly about Fox's desire to see global conflagration, "World War III," somewhere in the Golan Heights near Armaggedon).

If you want to whine about the evil Muslims in England, you need to find a different thread.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 06:45 am
There are plenty of people in Britain who would love to see Islamic dress codes etc adopted in British schools...but they are mainly on the extreme right.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 07:28 am
x, is it really worth your time to pay attention to an organization that is nothing more than a Yahoo group, which an individual can set up in about five minutes?
0 Replies
 
 

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