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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 12:26 pm
Advocate, It's against international law to take over land as a result of war.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 12:27 pm
Bush hasn't tried diplomacy? Then I wonder why Condi Rice has been on the road almost constantly and is likely to chalk up more frequent flier miles than any Secretary of State in history?

Consider this just three months ago:
Quote:
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently held the first of several three-way talks among the United States, Israeli and Palestinian leaders. Although the initial meeting ended with little progress other than a commitment to meet again, the fact that Rice was able to get these country's leaders talking together in the same room is progress. And though these talks may seem insignificant and long overdue (this is nearly a 60-year-old conflict) year, they in fact are a groundbreaking success for the world. And the person we have to thank for that is our very own Condoleezza Rice.

SOURCE & MORE HERE

And Condi's major address to the Palestinians last fall HERE
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 12:44 pm
Walter, the USA made mistakes in WWII.

Foxy, Bush's peace efforts were only recent. Moreover, they are cursory.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 12:51 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Bush hasn't tried diplomacy? Then I wonder why Condi Rice has been on the road almost constantly and is likely to chalk up more frequent flier miles than any Secretary of State in history?

Consider this just three months ago:
Quote:
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently held the first of several three-way talks among the United States, Israeli and Palestinian leaders. Although the initial meeting ended with little progress other than a commitment to meet again, the fact that Rice was able to get these country's leaders talking together in the same room is progress. And though these talks may seem insignificant and long overdue (this is nearly a 60-year-old conflict) year, they in fact are a groundbreaking success for the world. And the person we have to thank for that is our very own Condoleezza Rice.

SOURCE & MORE HERE

And Condi's major address to the Palestinians last fall HERE

Jerusalem Post (May 7, 2007):
Quote:
A senior diplomatic official called the cancellation of US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's Israel visit unprecedented, Israel Radio reported on Tuesday.

According to the official, Washington's decision could be interpreted in the region as meaning that the US believed the peace process could not move forward due to the situation in Israel.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:06 pm
It would have been far more honest to have posted the whole article instead of just the part that appears critical of the Secretary of State. It doesn't take a lot of effort to find a couple of paragraphs down:
Quote:
However, Dov Weisglass, who served as an adviser to former prime minister Ariel Sharon, told Army Radio on Tuesday morning that Rice's decision to cancel her trip may have been connected to situation in the PA, not necessarily the Israeli government alone.

Weisglass noted that with the current anarchy in the Gaza Strip and West Bank due to the infighting between the Fatah and Hamas factions, it would be difficult to determine which officials to hold talks with.

Israel Radio also reported Tuesday that Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni spoke Monday night with Rice, although the government had not received an official report of the conversation.

Senior officials at Livni's office said that Rice's cancellation had no connection whatsoever to the talk they held.

Meanwhile, sources in Jerusalem expressed surprise over the cancellation, the report said, since meetings with the US Embassy had taken place just the day before in preparation for Rice's visit.

The Foreign Ministry confirmed late Monday night that Rice had cancelled her trip to Israel planned for next week due to the unstable political situation in Israel.

Rice was scheduled to meet with Israeli and Palestinian leaders following a stop-off in Moscow.

US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Monday that the cancellation would not get in the way of US efforts to move forward with Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.

"It's a change in plans, yes," McCormack admitted, but added that the US would "continue efforts to advance the Israeli-Palestinian track."
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:13 pm
Advocate wrote:
Walter, the USA made mistakes in WWII.

Foxy, Bush's peace efforts were only recent. Moreover, they are cursory.


Okay. Show me the evidence that they are 'cursory'. Show me evidence that Bush 'doesn't care about diplomacy' and has made no attempt at diplomacy in the Middle East. I'm backing up my position with some hard evidence here. Where's yours?

We have both criticized those who seem to be criticizing Israel based on deep seated prejudices and fuzzy notions of violations of international law etc. Such people can find opinion that backs up their positions, but cannot show how those who are defending Israel are wrong.

It is just as wrong of us to defend Israel based on prejudices or fuzzy notions. Ican has been consistent and persistent in posting hard evidence supporting Israel's side of the equation. I have added some to that. A few others have as well.

But don't criticize the naysayers while engaging in hate talk and baseless criticism that can't be backed up. You weaken all your other arguments when you do that.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:23 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
It would have been far more honest to have posted the whole article instead of just the part that appears critical of the Secretary of State. It doesn't take a lot of effort to find a couple of paragraphs down:


Sure.

But I wanted to point at "[a] diplomatic official called the cancellation of US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's Israel visit unprecedented".

I gave the link to the full report - everyone, like you proved - could easily find other opinions in that article. Which weren't mine but obviously your accentuations: in your quote, you left mine out.

Besides that, in your above response, you even didn't use latest sources but stopped in autumn last year.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:25 pm
I didn't see that you had an opinion, Walter. You posted a paragraph in a way that dishonestly appeared to dispute the progress that Condi has made. That needed to be pointed out. The other part of Armstrong's piece that I linked referred to subjects not specifically related to Middle East diplomacy.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:27 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I didn't see that you had an opinion, Walter. You posted a paragraph in a way that dishonestly appeared to dispute the progress that Condi has made. That needed to be pointed out. The other part of Armstrong's piece that I linked referred to subjects not specifically related to Middle East diplomacy.


YOU CAL ME QUOTING PART OF A NEWSPAWER REPORT DISHONEST?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:28 pm
I'm out here.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:33 pm
Dishonest my ass.

What a jerk you can be sometimes, Fox

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:41 pm
Foxfyre is always right because she is never wrong, just ask her. Walter is always wrong because foxfyre says so. I am never wrong because foxfyre took a vow to never read my posts therefore she can never rebuke what I say.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:48 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate, It's against international law to take over land as a result of war.



The Pals didn't adhere to law when, for instance, they relentlessly targeted children and other civilians. One can't expect just one side to adhere to rules.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:52 pm
Advocate wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate, It's against international law to take over land as a result of war.



The Pals didn't adhere to law when, for instance, they relentlessly targeted children and other civilians. One can't expect just one side to adhere to rules.
or, apparently, either side.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:56 pm
Advocate wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate, It's against international law to take over land as a result of war.



The Pals didn't adhere to law when, for instance, they relentlessly targeted children and other civilians. One can't expect just one side to adhere to rules.


Of COURSE one can expect that!!!

Isn't that what differentiates the good guys from the bad guys - that the good guys uphold the Rule of Law, and the bad guys reject it?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:58 pm
Carter and Clinton got very personally involved. And they got personally involved bringing the ME partners together. I haven't seen any involvement by Bush.

Of course Bush's neglect of diplomacy is very evident elsewhere, such as regarding Iraq. The Baker report, which was essentially ignored, begged the administration to engage in diplomacy.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:31 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate, It's against international law to take over land as a result of war.


Since almost EVERY piece of territory the US owns or possesses have been gained thru war,do you suggest we return them to the original owners?
Do we return the east coast to England?
Do we the southwest US to Mexico?
Do we return Puerto Rico to the Spanish?

How about other countries?
Do they return their land to its original owners,even if it was taken in war hundreds if not thousands of years ago?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:32 pm
The Iraqi opinion of the Baker Report HERE

I think it is likely that those who think the U.S. should admit defeat, hand over to the terrorist whatever they want, and leave Iraq think the Baker report is just great. Those who want a free Iraq capable of charting its own destiny don't view it so favorably.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:33 pm
mysteryman wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate, It's against international law to take over land as a result of war.


Since almost EVERY piece of territory the US owns or possesses have been gained thru war,do you suggest we return them to the original owners?
Do we return the east coast to England?
Do we the southwest US to Mexico?
Do we return Puerto Rico to the Spanish?

How about other countries?
Do they return their land to its original owners,even if it was taken in war hundreds if not thousands of years ago?


Well we bought the Louisiana Purchase and Alaska. We can keep those, yes?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:36 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate, It's against international law to take over land as a result of war.


Since almost EVERY piece of territory the US owns or possesses have been gained thru war,do you suggest we return them to the original owners?
Do we return the east coast to England?
Do we the southwest US to Mexico?
Do we return Puerto Rico to the Spanish?

How about other countries?
Do they return their land to its original owners,even if it was taken in war hundreds if not thousands of years ago?


Well we bought the Louisiana Purchase and Alaska. We can keep those, yes?


If we do what CI suggests,then the only land that we can keep is the La purchase,Alaska,and the Gadsen Purchase in the Southwest.
EVERYTHING else must be returned to its original owners.

Of course,that leads to another problem.
How do you determine who the original owners are?
0 Replies
 
 

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