15
   

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 09:19 pm
blueflame1 wrote:
IDF calls off strike after hundreds shield Gaza militant's house
By Nir Hasson, Aluf Ben and Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondents, Haaretz Service and Reuters
The Israel Defense Forces canceled a planned air raid on the home of a militant in the northern Gaza Strip on Sunday after several hundred Palestinians barricaded themselves inside the building, an IDF spokesman and witnesses said.

Palestinian sources called the protest the first of its kind to have in effect prevented an air strike by the IAF. An IDF spokesman said the strike had been called off so to avoid inflicting civilian casualties.

Hundreds of Palestinians formed a human shield around the home of the militant in Beit Lahia late Saturday to prevent an Israel Air Force air strike on the building, residents said.

An IDF spokesman confirmed the raid had been called off because of the protest.

"The attack plan was canceled because of the people there," the spokesman said. "We differentiate between innocent people and terrorists."

The spokesman vowed Israel would continue its strikes against militants, and accused gunmen of using the civilians in the camp as human shields.

Earlier Saturday, two Palestinians, ages 16 and 20, were killed and five others wounded Saturday by Israel Defense Forces fire in Beit Lahiya. Three IDF soldiers were lightly injured by an anti-tank missile while operating against Qassam rocket infrastructure in Beit Lahia.

People flocked to the home of Mohammed al-Baroud after he received a warning from the army late Saturday giving him 30 minutes to leave the house. Barhoud is a commander in the Popular Resistance Committees in the town who is in charge of firing homemade rockets at Israel. Crowds of people stood on the rooftop and in the yard of the home.

Israel routinely orders occupants out of homes ahead of air strikes on suspected weapons-storage facilities, saying it wants to avoid casualties. The incident in Beit Lahia was the first time Palestinians have tried to prevent such an airstrike.

The crowd chanted anti-Israel and anti-American slogans, and people said they were prepared to give their lives to protect the home. "Yes to martyrdom. No to surrender," the crowd chanted.

"We came here to protect this fighter, to protect his house and to prove that we are capable of defeating this Zionist policy," said Nizar Rayan, a local Hamas leader who joined the protest,
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/788899.html

This was a huge Israeli mistake.

The crowd knew they were protecting a deliberate killer of Israelis. The crowd was assisting that deliberate killer of Israelis. The crowd was aiding and abetting that deliberate killer of Israelis. As such, the crowd did not consist of innocent civilians. It consisted of people who were helpers of a killer of Israelis.

The IDF spokeman said, "The attack plan was canceled because of the people there. We differentiate between innocent people and terrorists."

There was nothing innocent about those people who surrounded the home of Mohammed al-Baroud. "Barhoud is a commander in the Popular Resistance Committees in the town who is in charge of firing homemade rockets at Israel." The crowd knew this and supported al-Baroud anyway.

Because of this, the Israelis should have destroyed Baroud's house and the members of that crowd with it.

Israel has the right of self-defense. That right of self-defense includes exterminating those who would exterminate Israel or who assist the extermination of Israel.

Only when the Palestinian Arabs stop deliberately killing Israelis, will the Israelis no longer have need to defend themselves against them.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 09:24 pm
ican711nm wrote:
[quote="blueflame']Only when the Palestinian Arabs stop deliberately killing Israelis, will the Israelis no longer have need to defend themselves against them.


Only when the Israelis stop deliberately killing Palestinian Arabs, will the Palestinian Arabs no longer have need to defend themselves against them.

What's the difference ??????
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 09:24 pm
ican wrote: specific skills deemed by the government to be in short supply will be allowed to work,

It's obvious, you have a one-track mind. You don't ever see the problems from the Palestinian side, and forget or forgive all the atrocities committed by Israelis against the Palestinians and Lebanese. You're the monster in this picture; a blind one.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 09:38 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican wrote: specific skills deemed by the government to be in short supply will be allowed to work,

It's obvious, you have a one-track mind. You don't ever see the problems from the Palestinian side, and forget or forgive all the atrocities committed by Israelis against the Palestinians and Lebanese. You're the monster in this picture; a blind one.


And I give up trying to point this fact out to ican. Deaf dumb & blind.

Sorry - wasn't trying to 'spam' the thread. I was caught up in ican's idiocy.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 09:41 pm
The Times November 24, 2004


'Ugly reality' of Israel's atrocitiesThis writer takes issue with Julie Burchill


TO DEFEND Israel today is to be either callous or wilfully ignorant. Had Julie Burchill bothered during her visit there to cross the few miles from Israel to Gaza or the West Bank, she would have seen such human suffering as to disturb even her frenetic adulation of Israel. She might have seen the daily lot of nearly three million Palestinians as they battle with army checkpoints, curfews, random shootings, arbitrary arrests and air raids. She might have found that the "superJews" she so admires humiliate and oppress Palestinians at a whim: last year, at the Nablus checkpoint, a middle-aged man was made to strip, get down on all fours and bark like a dog before he could enter his city. Women in labour routinely wait at checkpoints until some give birth there and see their babies die.
Those that survive live a blighted childhood. Since September 2000, Israel has killed more than 660 Palestinian children and wounded 9,000 ?- such as little Iman, sprayed with bullets when walking to school in Rafah last month, even after she died. Thousands of children are traumatised by the daily horrors they witness. For a Palestinian child, life under Israeli occupation means turning 15 and seeing the army come to arrest you if you are male, or seeing your friends bleed to death because no ambulance is allowed to rescue them.



It is difficult to convey the scale and effect of Israel's abuses of Palestinian lives through statistics alone. But these are horrifying enough: since 2000, nearly 4,000 Palestinians killed, and 30,000 injured; 400 were assas-sinated; and 25,000 homes were demolished. In addition, hundreds of acres of farmland were destroyed. No state on earth, except Israel, could get away with these atrocities, now routinely justified as "defence" against Palestinian " terrorism".

The truth is that the West, which created Israel, cannot bear to see what it has done. In trying to solve the problem of Jewish persecution in Europe, which culminated in the Holocaust, Western powers helped to establish the Jewish state as a refuge for the Jews and their own consciences. A compelling argument at the time, it became unassailable when Old Testament stories about the ancient Israelites and their exploits in the Holy Land were thrown in.

But these were European sensitivities arising from European events that had nothing to do with the people who paid the price for Israel's establishment. Most Palestinians are Muslims who do not accept the Biblical version of events. So why were they sacrificed to assuage European guilt and fulfil Zionist ambitions? And who cares to compute the cost to the Palestinians of creating Israel 56 years ago? Far easier to ignore all that and cling to the romantic illusion of an Israel of fearless pioneers and liberal upholders of civilised, Western values. But the ugly reality behind this myth is showing and people like Julie Burchill will have to take note some day.


Ghada Karmi is a research fellow at the Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies, University of Exeter

Describes ican to a "t."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 09:43 pm
This is what I was trying to cut and paste of ican's post:
Only when the Palestinian Arabs stop deliberately killing Israelis, will the Israelis no longer have need to defend themselves against them.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 09:55 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
[quote="blueflame']Only when the Palestinian Arabs stop deliberately killing Israelis, will the Israelis no longer have need to defend themselves against them.


Only when the Israelis stop deliberately killing Palestinian Arabs, will the Palestinian Arabs no longer have need to defend themselves against them.

What's the difference ??????


The Palestinian Arabs in words and deeds have made it clear that they seek the removal of Israel and are willing to continue to kill Israelis until they obtain what they seek.

The Israelis on the otherhand in words and deeds have frequently offered the Palestinian Arabs the opportunity to peacefully coexist with Israel free of the Palestinian Arab deliberate killing of Israelis and free of Israeli retaliation for past Palestinian Arab deliberate killing of Israelis. In support of their offers, the Israelis have frequently stopped killing Palestinian Arabs for long periods of time even while the Palestinians continued to kill Israelis.

This problem is due principally to the belief by the Palestinian Arabs that they have an inherent right to govern all of Palestine, while the Israelis believe they have a legal right to govern a specific part of Palestine.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 10:07 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican wrote: specific skills deemed by the government to be in short supply will be allowed to work,

It's obvious, you have a one-track mind. You don't ever see the problems from the Palestinian side, and forget or forgive all the atrocities committed by Israelis against the Palestinians and Lebanese. You're the monster in this picture; a blind one.


Where? When? Did I post: "specific skills deemed by the government to be in short supply will be allowed to work." Was that in an article I quoted in another thread unaccompanied by any comment by me?
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 10:15 pm
c.i. ~

Interesting article: TO DEFEND Israel today is to be either callous or wilfully ignorant.


Thanks for posting it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Nov, 2006 10:33 pm
ican, Go two posts above your own to see my "correction."
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 07:39 am
Israeli Map Says West Bank Posts Sit on Arab Land

Quote:
JERUSALEM, Nov. 20 ?- An Israeli advocacy group, using maps and figures leaked from inside the government, says that 39 percent of the land held by Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank is privately owned by Palestinians.

Israel has long asserted that it fully respects Palestinian private property in the West Bank and only takes land there legally or, for security reasons, temporarily.

If big sections of those settlements are indeed privately held Palestinian land, that is bound to create embarrassment for Israel and further complicate the already distant prospect of a negotiated peace. The data indicate that 40 percent of the land that Israel plans to keep in any future deal with the Palestinians is private.

The new claims regarding Palestinian property are said to come from the 2004 database of the Civil Administration, which controls the civilian aspects of Israel's presence in the West Bank. Peace Now, an Israeli group that advocates Palestinian self-determination in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, plans to publish the information on Tuesday. An advance copy was made available to The New York Times.

The data ?- maps that show the government's registry of the land by category ?- was given to Peace Now by someone who obtained it from an official inside the Civil Administration. The Times spoke to the person who received it from the Civil Administration official and agreed not to identify him because of the delicate nature of the material.

That person, who has frequent contact with the Civil Administration, said he and the official wanted to expose what they consider to be wide-scale violations of private Palestinian property rights by the government and settlers. The government has refused to give the material directly to Peace Now, which requested it under Israel's freedom of information law.

Shlomo Dror, a spokesman for the Civil Administration, said he could not comment on the data without studying it.

He said there was a committee, called the blue line committee, that had been investigating these issues of land ownership for three years. "We haven't finished checking everything," he said.

Mr. Dror also said that sometimes Palestinians would sell land to Israelis but be unwilling to admit to the sale publicly because they feared retribution as collaborators.

Within prominent settlements that Israel has said it plans to keep in any final border agreement, the data show, for example, that some 86.4 percent of Maale Adumim, a large Jerusalem suburb, is private; and 35.1 percent of Ariel is.

The maps indicate that beyond the private land, 5.8 percent is so-called survey land, meaning of unclear ownership, and 1.3 percent private Jewish land. The rest, about 54 percent, is considered "state land" or has no designation, though Palestinians say that at least some of it represents agricultural land expropriated by the state.

The figures, together with detailed maps of the land distribution in every Israeli settlement in the West Bank, were put together by the Settlement Watch Project of Peace Now, led by Dror Etkes and Hagit Ofran, and has a record of careful and accurate reporting on settlement growth.

The report does not include Jerusalem, which Israel has annexed and does not consider part of the West Bank, although much of the world regards East Jerusalem as occupied. Much of the world also considers Israeli settlements on occupied land to be illegal under international law. International law requires an occupying power to protect private property, and Israel has always asserted that it does not take land without legal justification.

One case in a settlement Israel intends to keep is in Givat Zeev, barely five miles north of Jerusalem. At the southern edge is the Ayelet Hashachar synagogue. Rabah Abdellatif, a Palestinian who lives in the nearby village of Al Jib, says the land belongs to him.

Papers he has filed with the Israeli military court, which runs the West Bank, seem to favor Mr. Abdellatif. In 1999, Israeli officials confirmed, he was even granted a judgment ordering the demolition of the synagogue because it had been built without permits. But for the last seven years, the Israeli system has done little to enforce its legal judgments. The synagogue stands, and Mr. Abdellatif has no access to his land.

Ram Kovarsky, the town council secretary, said the synagogue was outside the boundaries of Givat Zeev, although there is no obvious separation. Israeli officials confirm that the land is privately owned, though they refuse to say by whom.

Mr. Abdellatif, 65, said: "I feel stuck, angry. Why would they do that? I don't know who to go to anymore."

He pointed to his corduroy trousers and said, in the English he learned in Paterson, N.J., where his son is a police detective: "These are my pants. And those are your pants. And you should not take my pants. This is mine, and that is yours! I never took anyone's land."

According to the Peace Now figures, 44.3 percent of Givat Zeev is on private Palestinian land.

Miri Eisin, a spokesperson for Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, said that Israeli officials would have to see the data and the maps and added that ownership is complicated and delicate. Baruch Spiegel, a reserve general who just left the Ministry of Defense and dealt with the separation barrier being built near the boundary with the West Bank, also said he would have to see the data in detail in order to judge it.

The definitions of private and state land are complicated, given different administrations of the West Bank going back to the Ottoman Empire, the British mandate, Jordan and now Israel. During the Ottoman Empire, only small areas of the West Bank were registered to specific owners, and often villagers would hold land in common to avoid taxes. The British began a more formal land registry based on land use, taxation or house ownership that continued through the Jordanian period.

Large areas of agricultural land are registered as state land; other areas were requisitioned or seized by the Israeli military after 1967 for security purposes, but such requisitions are meant to be temporary and must be renewed, and do not change the legal ownership of the land, Mr. Dror, the Civil Administration spokesman, said.

But the issue of property is one that Israeli officials are familiar with, even if the percentages here may come as a surprise and may be challenged after the publication of the report.

Asked about Israeli seizure of private Palestinian land in an interview with The Times last summer, before these figures were available, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said: "Now I don't deny anything, I don't ignore anything. I'm just ready to sit down and talk. And resolve it. And resolve it in a generous manner for all sides."

He said the 1967 war was a one of self-defense. Later, he said: "Many things happened. Life is not frozen. Things occur. So many things happened, and as a result of this many innocent individuals on both sides suffered, were killed, lost their lives, became crippled for life, lost their family members, their loved ones, thousands of them. And also private property suffered. By the way, on all sides."

Mr. Olmert says Israel will keep some 10 percent of the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, possibly in a swap for land elsewhere. The area Israel intends to keep is roughly marked by the route of the unfinished separation barrier, which cuts through the West Bank and is intended, Israel says, to stop suicide bombers. Mr. Olmert, however, describes it as a putative border. Nearly 80,000 Jews live in settlements beyond the route of the barrier, but some 180,000 live in settlements within the barrier, while another 200,000 live in East Jerusalem.

But these land-ownership figures show that even in the settlements that Israel intends to keep, there will be a considerable problem of restitution that goes beyond the issue of refugee return.

Mr. Olmert was elected on a pledge to withdraw Israeli settlers living east of the barrier. But after the war with Hezbollah and with fighting ongoing in Gaza, from which Israel withdrew its settlers in the summer of 2005, his withdrawal plan has been suspended.

In March 2005, a report requested by the government found a number of illegal Israeli outposts built on private Palestinian land, and officials promised to destroy them. But only nine houses of only one outpost, Amona, were dismantled after a court case brought by Peace Now.

There is a court case pending over Migron, which began as a group of trailers on a windy hilltop around a set of cellphone antennas in May 1999 and is now a flourishing community of 50 families, said Avi Teksler, an official of the Migron council. But Migron, too, according to the data, is built on private Palestinian land.

Mr. Teksler said that the land was deserted, and that its ownership would be settled in court. Migron, where some children of noted settlement leaders live, has had "the support of every Israeli government," he said. "The government has been a partner to every single move we've made."

Mr. Teksler added: "This is how the state of Israel was created. And this is all the land of Israel. We're like the kibbutzim. The only real difference is that we're after 1967, not before."

But in the Palestinian village of Burqa, Youssef Moussa Abdel Raziq Nabboud, 85, says that some of the land of Migron, and the land on which Israel built a road for settlers, belongs to him and his family, who once grew wheat and beans there. He said he had tax documents from the pre-1967 authorities.

"They have the power to put the settlement there and we can do nothing," he said. "They have a fence around the settlement and dogs there."

Mr. Nabboud went to the Israeli authorities with the mayor, Abu Maher, but they were told he needed an Israeli lawyer and surveyor. "I have no money for that," he said. What began as an outpost taking 5 acres has now taken 125, the mayor said.

Mr. Nabboud wears a traditional head covering; his grandson, Khaled, 27, wears a Yankees cap. "The land is my inheritance," he said. "I feel sad I can't go there. And angry. The army protects them."
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 07:46 am
ican711nm wrote:
The Palestinian Arabs in words and deeds have made it clear that they seek the removal of Israel and are willing to continue to kill Israelis until they obtain what they seek.


This witless contention assumes that any description of some Palestinians can be justifiably applied to all Palestinians. It is as idiotic as the habit of referring to all Muslims as "Islam-fascists." It is a scurrilous charge and a strawman. We expect no less from Ican't.

********************************

Excellent article, Revel, thank you for posting it.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 08:53 am
ican711nm wrote:
The crowd knew they were protecting a deliberate killer of Israelis. The crowd was assisting that deliberate killer of Israelis. The crowd was aiding and abetting that deliberate killer of Israelis. As such, the crowd did not consist of innocent civilians. It consisted of people who were helpers of a killer of Israelis.

The IDF spokeman said, "The attack plan was canceled because of the people there. We differentiate between innocent people and terrorists."

There was nothing innocent about those people who surrounded the home of Mohammed al-Baroud. "Barhoud is a commander in the Popular Resistance Committees in the town who is in charge of firing homemade rockets at Israel." The crowd knew this and supported al-Baroud anyway.

Because of this, the Israelis should have destroyed Baroud's house and the members of that crowd with it.



You've only missed a little detail: the IDF called ahead of the strike. The target of the strike was not al-Baroud. The target of the strike was al-Baroud's house. The Israeli military has confirmed that these attacks are launched in response to rocket attacks from the Gaza strip.

It's well noted that you advocate killing hundreds of civilians in order to reach a set target of destroying the house of a Palestinian militant.

That says a lot about your mindset.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 08:56 am
"TO DEFEND Israel today is to be either callous or wilfully ignorant." Yes of course. And to defend America also. Wolfie at the World Bank? Abomination.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 10:19 am
Quote:
U.N. Panel Says Israel Used Excessive Force in Lebanon

A team of United Nations investigators has concluded that Israel engaged in "a significant pattern of excessive, indiscriminate and disproportionate force" against Lebanese civilians that amounted to "a flagrant violation" of international law during its war against Hezbollah last summer.

"Cumulatively, the deliberate and lethal attacks" by the Israeli defense forces against civilians and infrastructure "amounted to collective punishment," the investigators, who were appointed by the United Nations Human Rights Council, wrote in a draft report published today.

The investigators focused specifically on Israel's use of large numbers of cluster bombs, saying that 90 percent of them were dropped in the final three days of the month-long war.

Cluster bombs are not prohibited in warfare, but much controversy surrounds them because they disperse many small "bomblets" that explode over a wide area and may strike unintended targets. In addition, some bomblets do not explode when they hit the ground, and effectively become land mines that can be detonated unwittingly by civilians long after fighting has stopped.

"Their use was excessive, and not justified by any reason of military necessity," the investigators wrote. They concluded that "these weapons were used deliberately to turn large areas of fertile agricultural land into ?'no go' areas for the civilian population."

The dropping of cluster bombs also "amounted to a de facto scattering of anti-personnel mines across wide tracts of Lebanese lands."

On Monday, the Israeli military chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, ordered an inquiry to determine whether the armed forces had followed his orders when it used cluster bombs.

General Halutz visited an army base on Monday and told Army Radio, "One of the things that must be investigated is the way in which the orders were given and implemented."

He said: "Were the orders explicit? I believe they were. Now all we need to do is to see whether we had or did not have departures from the commonly accepted rules of use."

The general did not specify what orders he gave regarding cluster munitions, and it was not clear whether he prohibited them, or placed certain restrictions on their use. General Halutz, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz have all faced widespread criticism over the war, which many Israelis feel was mismanaged. There have been calls for General Halutz to resign, but he has said he has no plans to quit.

The military said Maj. Gen. Gershon Hacohen would head the investigation.

The Lebanese say they are still suffering numerous wounds and deaths caused by bomblets detonated by civilians since the war. So far, thousands of unexploded bomblets have been found at hundreds of sites, according to Lebanese officials and international groups searching for them.

The United Nations Mine Action Coordination Center has estimated that Israel fired as many as four million cluster submunitions, as the bomblets are known, and that up to one million may not have detonated. Israel fired many of the munitions with its Multiple Launch Rocket System, which can fire 12 rockets in a minute.

In a statement, the Israeli military said that cluster munitions used in Lebanon were directed only at "legitimate military targets" and that after the fighting ended, Israel provided maps to United Nations forces to assist in finding unexploded bomblets.

Israel has received cluster munitions from the United States for many years, and makes its own. In August the State Department began investigating whether Israel used cluster bombs in Lebanon in violation of secret agreements that restrict their use.

The report issued today by the United Nations investigators did not examine issues surrounding the 4,000 rockets Hezbollah fired into Israel during the fighting, which lasted from July 12 to Aug. 14. Israeli officials have charged that some of the rockets carried cluster munitions.

The investigators did consider Hezbollah's actions within Lebanon, and said that there was "some evidence" that the Shiite militia used towns and villages as "shields." But it said that this happened when most of the civilian population had left the area, and that there was no evidence of the use of "human shields."

The report quoted figures from the Lebanese government saying that the conflict killed 1,191 people, wounded 4,409 and drove more than 900,000 ?- about a quarter of the country's population from their homes. It said that the attacks on the country's infrastructure, including attacks on agriculture and tourism, would years to rebuild, even with international help.

The investigators said Israel justified the infrastructure attacks by arguing that the sites could have been used by Hezbollah, but said that reasoning could not reasonably apply to the wide range of targets hit. They said they were "convinced that damage inflicted on some infrastructure was done for the sake of destruction."

[...]
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 10:39 am
From today's Chicago Triubune (page A5/online report)

http://i10.tinypic.com/2jbsm54.jpg

Quote:
[...]Since an Aug. 14 cease-fire, 23 people have been killed in southern Lebanon by explosions of cluster bomblets, according to the UN Mine Action Coordination Center. Unexploded ordnance, most of it cluster munitions, wounded 136 people, the center said.

Detonated when picked up by curious children or when accidentally touched by farmers in fields and groves, the bomblets have turned large areas into the equivalent of minefields, threatening harvesting and grazing and hindering the return of thousands of people to their homes.

Many bomblets found in villages and on roads.

In response to earlier queries about the cluster bombs, the Israeli army said in a statement that the munitions are "legal under international law and their use conforms with international standards."

However, the findings of an initial inquiry by a senior army officer indicated that the cluster munitions, delivered by rockets or artillery, were directed at civilian areas in violation of orders from the army command, have been and houses military officials said.[...]
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 11:34 am
Lebanese Christian Leader Killed
Lebanese Christian Leader Killed
The Associated Press
Tuesday 21 November 2006

Cabinet minister Pierre Gemayel shot, killed driving in Christian suburb.

Beirut, Lebanon - Prominent anti-Syrian Christian politician Pierre Gemayel was assassinated in a suburb of Beirut on Tuesday, his Phalange Party radio station and Lebanon's official news agency reported.

The shooting will certainly heighten the political tension in Lebanon, where the leading Muslim Shiite party Hezbollah has threatened to topple the government if it does not get a bigger say in Cabinet decision-making.

Witnesses said Gemayel was shot in his car in Jdeideh, a Christian neighborhood, his constituency on the northern edge of Beirut. The witnesses said a car rammed his car from behind and then an assassin stepped out and shot him at point blank range.

Gemayel was rushed to a nearby hospital, according to the Lebanese Broadcasting Corp. and the Voice of Lebanon, the Phalange Party mouthpiece. The party radio later said he was dead, as did the National News Agency.

Gemayel is the third prominent figure in Lebanese politics to be assassinated in the past two years. Former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri was killed in a massive car bombing in February 2005 and lawmaker and newspaper manager Gibran Tueni was killed in a car bombing in December

Anti-Syrian Stance

Saad Hariri, leader of the anti-Syrian parliamentary majority, broke off a televised news conference after hearing that Gemayel had been shot. He later accused Syria of playing a role, saying, the "hand of Syria" is behind Gemayel's killing, Hariri later told CNN.

Hariri hailed Gemayel as "a friend, a brother to all of us" and appeared to break down after saying: "We will bring justice to all those who killed him."

Gemayel, the minister of industry and son of former President Amin Gemayel, was a supporter of the anti-Syrian parliamentary majority, which is locked in a power struggle with pro-Syrian factions led by Hezbollah.

He was named for his grandfather, who founded the Phalange Party in 1936 to exert Christian power in Lebanon. It dominated Christian politics for decades after Lebanon's independence from France in 1943.

During the civil war, the Phalange had the largest Christian militia that fought Muslim forces and Palestinian guerrillas. The death of the senior Pierre Gemayel in 1983, the shrinking Christian community and internal dissent have seriously weakened the party, which could not get its own leader elected to parliament in 2000.

Amin Gemayel served as Lebanon's president from 1982 to 1988. He was elected by parliament after the assassination of his brother, Bashir, who was chosen president but was killed a few days before he was to take office.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 11:46 am
revel, You should read "The Other Side of Israel" by Susan Nathan, a Jew now living in a Palestinian village in Israel. She has written about the land-grab by Jews of Palestinian lands while the legal system ignores the fraud. Israel is not a democracy, but an apartheid state with no legal rights for Palestinians. To be fair, not all Jews approve of what is happening, and those who speak out are being threatened with their life and jobs. The good news, for me atleast, is it seems more Jews are speaking out against these atrocities. I hope they will return Israel into a "real" democracy some day.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 12:24 pm
ican711nm wrote:

The Palestinian Arabs in words and deeds have made it clear that they seek the removal of Israel and are willing to continue to kill Israelis until they obtain what they seek.

The Israelis on the otherhand in words and deeds have frequently offered the Palestinian Arabs the opportunity to peacefully coexist with Israel free of the Palestinian Arab deliberate killing of Israelis and free of Israeli retaliation for past Palestinian Arab deliberate killing of Israelis. In support of their offers, the Israelis have frequently stopped killing Palestinian Arabs for long periods of time even while the Palestinians continued to kill Israelis.

This problem is due principally to the belief by the Palestinian Arabs that they have an inherent right to govern all of Palestine, while the Israelis believe they have a legal right to govern a specific part of Palestine.

I'll edit this and expand on it.

With few exceptions, all of the Palestinian Arabs in words and deeds have made it clear that they seek the removal of Israel, and are willing to continue to kill Israelis, or support their colleagues killing Israelis, until Israel is removed.

The Palestinian Arabs have made it clear by their celebrations of their colleagues killing Israelis, rather than damning, criticizing, or making any effort to stop their colleagues killing Israelis.

The Israelis on the otherhand in words and deeds have frequently offered the Palestinian Arabs opportunities to peacefully coexist with Israel free of Palestinian Arab deliberate killings of Israelis, and free of Israeli retaliation for past Palestinian Arab deliberate killings of Israelis. In support of their offers, the Israelis have frequently stopped killing Palestinian Arabs for long periods of time even while the Palestinian Arab continued to kill Israelis.

This problem is due principally to the belief by the Palestinian Arabs that they have an inherent right to rule all of Palestine, while the Israelis believe they have a legal right to rule a specific part of Palestine.

The belief by the Palestinian Arabs that they have an inherent right to rule all of Palestine is itself based on their belief that Muhammed, the founder and prophet of their religion, declared after conquering all Palestine in the 7th Century that they have an inherent right to rule all of Palestine.

Furthermore, based on their religion, they believe that when an inherent right based on their religion is threatened rebuffed or rejected by non-believers of their religion, they are obligated by their religion to kill/slay those non-believers whereever they find them.

emphasis added
Quote:


EXCERPTS FROM THE KORAN

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-koran?specfile=%2Flv2%2Fenglish%2Frelig%2Fkoran%2Fwww%2Fkoran.o2w&query=wherever+you+find+them&docs=text&sample=1-100&grouping=work

Chapter 4: The Women : 4.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.


Chapter 4: The Women : 4.91: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

Chapter 2: The Cow : 2.191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Chapter 9: The Immunity : 9.5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


The solution for the Palestinian Arabs is obvious. Kill as many Israelis as they can, wherever they find them.

The belief by the Israelis that they have a legal right to rule a specific part of Palestine is based on the fact that the previous rulers of Palestine, the British, delegated to the UN the authority to decide how and who was to subsequently rule Palestine. The UN, acting according to that delegation of authority by the British, passed their 1947 resolution to divide Palestine into an Arab State and an Israeli State.

The solution for the Israelies is also obvious. For every Israeli the Palestinian Arabs kill, the Israelis in their own self-defense must kill multiple Palestinian Arabs.

I recommend that for every Israeli the Palestinian Arabs kill, the Israelis in their own self-defense and long term survival must kill at least a thousand Palestinian Arabs.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 12:54 pm
In brief, The most effective way for Palestinian Arabs to regain their individual property, is to stop killing Israelis and stop supporting the killing of Israelis.

The Israelis did in fact, more than once, make that specific offer to the Palestinian Arabs, if they were to stop killing Israelis. The Palestinian Arab leaders rejected that offer.

Unless you and yours have experienced the daily threat of being killed by those who think they have been authorized by their god to kill you, your criticisms of the reactions of people, who are experiencing that daily threat, are shallow and without merit as long as those criticisms are unaccompanied by realistic recommendations for what you think their reactions should be.
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