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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 10:52 am
Brand X wrote:
Israel has been pounding Hezbollah for 10 days yet Hezbollah are still able to fire missiles into Israel.

With this much fire power 'snuck' into Lebanon how can the upper echelons of their gov't not be dirty? Not to mention all the bunkers that were built.

My guess is Syria had infiltrated the Lebanese gov't the day Israel pulled out in 2000, if not before.


It has been the habit of the right of late who are always so willing to advocate for death to turn the ones who are going to die into demons. Guesses are not any kind of evidence.
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Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 10:56 am
"Civil structure appears to have broken down almost completely. Ambulances haven't been able to operate. The dead are rotting in the rubble of smashed homes. Food and clean drinking water are running out. Nearly 100 bodies have piled up in a poorly refrigerated container at a hospital in a Palestinian refugee camp close to Tyre; there's too much violence to pick up the dead or to hold funerals."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-flee21jul21,0,3779527.story?coll=la-home-headlines

-------------------------------------------------

Nathan replied to the king, "Whatever you have in mind, go ahead and do it, for the LORD is with you."
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 11:35 am
Israel is facing something entirely different here. They are facing Islamic terrorists who are the government. Hamas is the Palestinian government, and it participated in the firing of hundreds of rockets into Israel, as well as the souped-up one that hit a major Israeli city. Hamas also applauded the recent suicide bomber from Gaza. Hezbollah is a significant part of the Lebanese government, and has two people in the PM's cabinet.

These terrorists took a major step forward in invading Israel proper and kidnapping and killing soldiers. This was the final straw for Israel, as it would be for any other country.

Remember that Israel had long withdrawn from Lebanon, and recently withdrew from Gaza. Israel was also in the process of removing 70,000 settlers from the West Bank. This makes a mockery of land for peace.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 11:51 am
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 11:53 am
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 11:54 am
Britain criticises Israeli tactics

Ned Temko in London, Conal Urquart in Tel Aviv and Peter Beaumont in Beirut
Saturday July 22, 2006

Quote:
Britain has dramatically broken ranks with George Bush over the Lebanon crisis, publicly criticising Israel's military tactics and urging the Americans to 'understand' the price being paid by ordinary Lebanese civilians.
The remarks, made in Beirut today by the Foreign Office Minister, Kim Howells, were the first public criticism of the US voiced by Britain. The Observer can also reveal that Tony Blair urged restraint in a private telephone convseration with the Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, last week.

Sources close to the Prime Minister said that Olmert replied that Israel faced a dire security threat from the Hizbollah militia and was determined to do everything necessary to defeat it.

Britain's policy shift came as Israeli tanks and warplanes pounded targets across the border in south Lebanon today ahead of an immenently expected ground offensive to clear out nearby Hizbollah positions which have been firing dozens of rockets onto towns and cities inside Israel. Downing Street sources said Blair still believed Israel had every right to respond to the missile threat, and held the Shia militia responsible for provoking the cirisis by abducting two Israeli soldiers and shelling Israel.

But they said they had no quarrel with Howells's scathing denunciation of Israel's military tactics. Speaking to a BBC reporter before travelling on for talks in Israel, where he will also visit missile-hit areas of Haifa and meet his Israeli opposite-number, Howell said: 'The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people. These have not been surgical strikes. If they are chasing Hizbollah, then go for Hizbollah. You don't go for the entire Lebanese nation.'

He added: 'I very much hope that the Americans understand what's happening to Lebanon.' Only hours earlier, President Bush used his weekly radio address to place the blame for the crisis squarely on Hizbollah and their Syrian and Iranian backers. He said that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who is due to leave for the Middle East today, would 'make it clear that resolving the crisis demands confronting the terrorist group that launched the attacks and the nations that support it.'

Blair is scheduled to meet the President in Washington at the start of a US visit this Friday.

Senior diplomats said it was highly unlikely there would be a major diplomatic move to restrain Israel's planned south Lebanon incursion at least until then.

An advance force of tanks moved across the border yesterday, backed by a fierce barrage of airstrikes, including a half tonne bomb dropped on a Hizbollah outpost. Israeli forces focused much of their fire on the village of Ma roun al-Ras, on the crest of a hill less than a kilometre across the border. It was swathed in thick swirl of smoke.

Specially armour plated D-9 bulldozeers have also been brought in to level networks of foxholes and underground bunkers dug by Hizbollah.

Israel's army chief-of-staff Dan Halutz told reporters in Tel Aviv on Friday any military incursion would be limited in scope. 'We will fight terror wherever it is because if we do not fight it, it will fight us. If we don't reach it, it will reach us,' he said. 'We will also conduct limited ground operations as much as needed in order to harm the terror that harms us.'

Warnings to civilians

Israeli radio broadcast renewed warnings for civilians to flee the area by 7pm local time, but reports emerged of Lebanese casualties, including a seriously injured Lebanese woman who was taken to a hospital in the northern Israeli town of Safed.

An adviser to the Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz told The Observer: 'We are finally going to fight Hizbollah on the ground. The Israeli people are ready for this and the Sunni Muslim world also expect us to fight Shia fundamentalism and we are going to deliver.'

But he added: 'We have no intention of conquering and holding territory. We plan to clean a strip a mile from our border of Hizbollah bunkers and rocket-launching sites... We will go in and then we will go out.'

The Israeli air force dropped leaflets on southern Lebanon this week telling residents to leave their homes to avoid getting harmed in the fighting. Among the hundreds of thousands fleeing the fighting, there were few able-bodied men of military age.

Ali Suleiman, 50, from a village a few miles outside the coastal city of Tyre said his eldest son had joined Hizbollah.'When he dies, I will send another son and another and another. Tell Mr Blair, Muslims are not afraid - not of bombs or ships or hunger. We get our power from God.' Hizbollah has operated freely in the border region since Israel withdrew six years ago and are believed to have amassed an arsenal of some 12,000 rockets.

More than a week of airstrikes have done little to prevent Hizbollah from firing rockets at areas in northern Israel, including Haifa, the country's third-largest city. Today, more than 65 rockets fell - a dramatic increase from the previous 24 hours and at least 12 Israelis were injured. Britain's decision publicly to break ranks with the Americans over Israel's military tactics will cause deep concern in Jerusalem and a senior Israeli diplomat was at pains last night to play down any suggestion of a rift.

He said any feeling in London that Olmert's response to the Blair telephone call was a rebuff would be inaccurate. 'The tone was very positive. We agree on all the major aspects of this crisis and we are greatly appreciative of Britain's position.'

The Israeli Prime Minister, the source said, was merely reflecting an 'absolute determination to deal with the threat which we face from Hizbollah and to see that the UN resolutions requiring it to be disarmed are finally carried through.' Senior British sources also stressed their unwavering conviction that Hizbollah, and their Syrian and Iranian supporters, were responsible for igniting the crisis. They added that both the Syrian and Iranian ambassadors had been called into the Foreign Office last week to drive that message home.
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 12:01 pm
Not WWIII. THis is the same old same old.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 12:15 pm
Advocate wrote:


Avocate, if you want to go back to ancient times, then Abraham came from Ur and it was a long time until Israel finally came into the land of Cannon, they killed a lot of people along the way who already had first claim there. They lost their kingdom and only got it back because the UN gave it to them. During that time people had settled there and it really was not fair what happened to them because of the occupation.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 12:42 pm
BF, Hamas never flirted with a two-state territory. It did flirt with the idea of recognizing the existence of Israel, which amounts to nothing.

As you know, Palestine could have had statehood from 1948 until 1967, and could have had it following Camp David. Arafat instead chose jihad, stating that any accord with Israel would have resulted in his assassination.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 02:01 pm
That is the standard answer coming from your side, the true answer is a lot more complicated than that involving things like water rights and borders, but don't let things like the truth stop you. I am not fan of Arafat, but its always been that the Palestinians just had to take what they could get or take the blame for not getting a state.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 02:07 pm
Revel, from what I have read, the Palestinians would have gotten at Camp David over 95 % of what they sought. If they truly wanted peace with Israel, they would have taken this and then later negotiated changes. As you know, we have differences with Mexico and Canada over water and other things, but don't mount armed attacks.

Arafat prided himself in being a warrior and thought he could gain more with warfare. But instead he has brought down tremendous suffering on is people.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 02:16 pm
Advocate wrote:
Revel, from what I have read, the Palestinians would have gotten at Camp David over 95 % of what they sought.


Well, if Territory, Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, and the refugees and the 'right of return' are just 5% you are certainly correct.

Most might view this differently, though.
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freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 02:52 pm
Israel sows seeds of hatred

Israel claims that Iranian hands are all over the bombs and training of Hezbollah and its arms.

The hypocrisy is not lost on any Arab, because we all know, especially those of us at the receiving end, that U.S. hands are all over Israeli bombs and ammunitions and war machines.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 04:01 pm
Are you saying that the USA has directed Israel to attack Hezbollah? Isn't that pretty silly?
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 04:20 pm
Barak's Generous Offers... http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:VKA_yWTzO18J:gush-shalom.org/generous/generous.html+gush+shalom+peace+plan&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 05:17 pm
Advocate wrote:
As you know, we have differences with Mexico and Canada over water and other things, but don't mount armed attacks.


That statement is a little hard to swallow. We went to war with Mexico, and took from her portions of Colorado, all of New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California--for which they were forced to agree to accept a payment ($14,000,000 or $15,000,000--i disremember which). We invaded Canada in 1812, and again in 1813, leading to more than two years of continuous campaigning in the Niagara Penninsula, and almost constant warfare on Lake Ontario, as well as significant naval combat on Lake Erie. We burned York (modern Toronto) three times.

In 1866, Irish revolutionaries of the Fenian Brotherhood, the most of them veterans of the American Civil War, invaded the Niagara Penninsula, handing the Canadians a humiliating defeat at Ridgeway.

In 1914, during the Mexican civil war which succeeded the overthrow of Porfiro Diaz (a rebellion heavily abetted by American business interests, and funded by them as well), United States Marines landed at Vera Cruz to seize the customs house, so as to repay debts claimed by American citizens. In 1913, Pershing had gone to Brownsville, Texas--itself a settlement founded at the opening of the Mexican War--with a brigade, and patrolled a border increasingly destabilized by the warring Mexican factions. Woodrow Wilson refused to recognize the government of Mexico, and so that government had little inclination to cooperate to end the brigandage on the border. After the raid of Pancho Villa on Columbus, New Mexico in 1916, Pershing crossed into Mexico with the 7th, 10th, 11th and 13th Cavalry regimenst, and the 6th and 16th infantry regiments, as well as field artillery support. These were followed by the 5th Cavalry, and the 17th and 24th Infantry, as well as support troops.

You may allege that the Mexicans had it coming, but your remarks about no resort to violence are just foolishness.

You might try broaching that little bit of nonsense to Canadians and Mexicans sometime. Not only would they likely disagree, i know Canadians who, to this day, strongly suspect that the United States would invade and occupy Canada upon a sufficient pretext.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 05:47 pm
Since you didn't believe me before without citations:

Burning York (Toronto)

The Mexican American War

The Fenian Invasion of Canada in 1866

The occupation of Vera Cruz

Pershing and the Mexicans

For a brief and well-balanced account of the Mexican-American War, i recommend So Far from God, by John S. D. Eisenhower. I know of no brief, comprehensive history of the War of 1812 which does not have either an American, a Canadian or an English bias--The Naval War of 1812 by Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. is an excellent history, and sufficiently well-balanced that when the Royal Navy wrote a history of their service in the 1890s, they requested Roosevelt to write the article on the War of 1812. However, Roosevelt's account deals with the Naval War, and only takes brief notice of events on land.

You can do your own research for the Fenian invasions of Canada--the one which resulted in the batlle of Ridgeway was the only successful one. You will find numerous accounts of the seizure of Vera Cruz online--particularly as Medals of Honor were handed out like party favors. I've already given you a good online account of the Pershing invasion of Mexico in 1916.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 12:38 am
The British are at odds now with Bush's support for the Israelian invasion:

http://i5.tinypic.com/20rk804.jpg

British split with Bush as Israeli tanks roll in
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 12:48 am
Well, that's some good news, of sorts.

I cannot believe, even though I know better, that all this is going on, and at least from one link I've read, well preplanned. I cry for Lebanon. The bombings are horrible, and, on top of that, stupid. Hatred sown yet again.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Just recently read that Rice thinks of the bombings as birth pangs.

Cold.
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 04:04 am
Sounds more than just cold. Sounds devoid of human emotions, empathy, compassion - basic stuff.
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