ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

You're the one who brought up the tenure issue, I didn't. The Jews can trace their presence in Israel back many many centures before Christian times. So can the Arabs. But on balance now, the Jews now living in Israel have been there longer than most Palestinians now living in Israel.

The Jews are far less discriminatory toward the law abiding Arabs in their midst than the Arabs are toward the law abiding Jews in theirs. But you don't see the Jews firebombing school busses or blowing up market places.

Doesn't that impress you at all?

If the Arabs want to, they should be allowed to go back to Arabia where their ancestors came from before they conquered Palestine in 638 A.D.

Foxy wrote:

But you don't see the Jews firebombing school busses or blowing up market places.

Pretty dumb. I suggest you look at the destruction and death they did in Lebanon and Gaza. A lot of women and children were killed there but I'm sure you find some pathetic excuse for it.

Worse than pretty dumb. I suggest you say how the Jews could have defended themselves against Hezbollah rocket firing sites--deliberately built by Hezbollah in the midst of non-combatant men, women, and children--without blowing up both the rocket sites and non-combatant men, women, and children in the neighborhood.

During the British occupation they did resort to planting bombs the way terrorist do. Ever hear of the King David Hotel?

Yes, dumb/evil Jews did plant bombs in and blew up the King David Hotel.

WHO REALLY OWNS LAND IN PALESTINE?

ican711nm wrote:

If the Arabs want to, they should be allowed to go back to Arabia where their ancestors came from before they conquered Palestine in 638 A.D.

This is a non-sequitur. There are Arabs in Arabia. Also, the Palestinian Arabs should be able to live in the lands where they're from, Palestine.

InfraBlue wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

If the Arabs want to, they should be allowed to go back to Arabia where their ancestors came from before they conquered Palestine in 638 A.D.

This is a non-sequitur. There are Arabs in Arabia. Also, the Palestinian Arabs should be able to live in the lands where they're from, Palestine.

I agree. It was not an argument that followed or was intended to follow from any other argument. I merely was making a personal recomendation that if the Arabs in Palestine want to, they should be allowed to go back to Arabia where their ancestors came from before they conquered Palestine in 638 A.D.

Foxfyre wrote:

You're the one who brought up the tenure issue, I didn't. The Jews can trace their presence in Israel back many many centures before Christian times. So can the Arabs. But on balance now, the Jews now living in Israel have been there longer than most Palestinians now living in Israel.

The Jews are far less discriminatory toward the law abiding Arabs in their midst than the Arabs are toward the law abiding Jews in theirs. But you don't see the Jews firebombing school busses or blowing up market places.

Doesn't that impress you at all?

To what tenure issue are you referring? My response was to your comment about who's been there longer.

On balance the Jews now living in Israel have been there about the same time as the Arabs there.

The contention about "the Jews being far less discriminatory toward the law abiding Arabs in their midst than the Arabs are toward the law abiding Jews in theirs" is also a red herring. That "the Jews being far less discriminatory toward the law abiding Arabs in their midst than the Arabs are toward the law abiding Jews in theirs" does not negate the fact that the state of Israel discriminates and oppresses the Arabs in Israel and Palestine. That I "don't see the Jews firebombing school busses or blowing up market places" also doesn't negate the fact that the state of Israel discriminates and oppresses the Arabs in Israel and Palestine. This is also a red herring. What you've impressed upon me is your propensity for red herrings to rationalize your position.

Also, Zionists extremists did bomb Arab market places, among other acts of terrorism, in Palestine during the British Mandate.

ican wrote:

WHO REALLY OWNS LAND IN PALESTINE?

The question of who owns land in Palestine doesn't give anyone the right to discriminate and oppress anyone else under ethnocentric rationalizations, or otherwise. Yours is a red herring.

...
When the Israelis stop treating the Palestinians as Untermenschen, we can begin to make progress.

xingu wrote:

Foxy wrote:

But you don't see the Jews firebombing school busses or blowing up market places.

Pretty dumb. I suggest you look at the destruction and death they did in Lebanon and Gaza. A lot of women and children were killed there but I'm sure you find some pathetic excuse for it.

Worse than pretty dumb. I suggest you say how the Jews could have defended themselves against Hezbollah rocket firing sites--deliberately built by Hezbollah in the midst of non-combatant men, women, and children--without blowing up both the rocket sites and non-combatant men, women, and children in the neighborhood.

During the British occupation they did resort to planting bombs the way terrorist do. Ever hear of the King David Hotel?

Yes, dumb/evil Jews did plant bombs in and blew up the King David Hotel.

Decade to clear cluster bombs
01/09/2006 21:35 - (SA)

Geneva - Clearing unexploded cluster bombs used by Israel in Lebanon during the month-long war, many of them US-manufactured, could take 10 years, a British-based demining group said on Friday.

"We will be clearing unexploded cluster munitions from the rubble of the villages of southern Lebanon for another decade," said Simon Conway, director of LandMine Action. "That is the grim reality," he told reporters in Geneva.

Before the recent war between Israel and Hizbollah guerrillas in the south, demining teams were still clearing unexploded cluster munitions from Israel's 1978 and 1982 incursions into Lebanon, according to the advocacy group which is campaigning for an international ban on their use.

Such weapons continue to kill and maim civilians, especially children, for years after a conflict, it said.

The United Nations estimates that 100 000 cluster bomblets that failed to explode lie in Lebanon, with most landing during the final 72 hours of the war, which ended in an August 14 ceasefire.

UN Emergency Relief Coordinator Jan Egeland has called Israel "completely immoral" for using them in residential areas.

Greater than Kosovo, Cambodia

"My understanding from the people I have spoken to in southern Lebanon is that the scale of cluster munition contamination is much greater than was seen in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq," said Conway, a former deminer in post-conflict zones including Kosovo, Afghanistan and Cambodia.

Israel denies using the weapons illegally and accuses Hizbollah of firing rockets into Israel from civilian areas.

Three types of artillery-delivered cluster bombs were used by Israel in Lebanon - two US-made (M42 and M77) and one Israeli (M85), each with roughly the same failure rate of 40%, he said.

So far, the United Nations has found 400 strike sites where cluster bombs - "a lot of them US-manufactured" - were used, said David Shearer, UN humanitarian coordinator in Lebanon.

UN demining teams, who have destroyed 2 900 sub-munitions so far, predict it would take 12 to 15 months to clean up the cluster bombs.

"Currently one person per day is being killed and three people per day are being injured by ordnance of all types," Shearer told reporters.

Some 100 deminers - from Sweden, Britain and New Zealand - will be deployed by the end of the week, according to the UN official, who expected the UN force in south Lebanon to be more involved as troop levels rise.

...
And, of course, no non-combatant women or children were killed by the Jews when they bombed apartment buildings. Nice to see it's only a one way street for you.

Maybe the exploding cluster bombs in future years will remind the Lebanese to stay the hell out of Israel.

"We did not think, even 1 percent, that the capture would lead to a war at this time and of this magnitude. You ask me, if I had known on July 11 . . . that the operation would lead to such a war, would I do it? I say no, absolutely not."

-- Hasan Nasrallah,

Hezbollah leader, Aug. 27

So much for the "strategic and historic victory" Nasrallah had claimed less than two weeks earlier. What real victor declares that, had he known, he would not have started the war that ended in triumph?

Nasrallah's admission, vastly underplayed in the West, makes clear what the Lebanese already knew. Hezbollah may have won the propaganda war, but on the ground it lost. Badly.

True, under the inept and indecisive leadership of Ehud Olmert, Israel did miss the opportunity to militarily destroy Hezbollah and make it a non-factor in Israel's security, Lebanon's politics and Iran's foreign policy. Nonetheless, Hezbollah was seriously hurt. It lost hundreds of its best fighters. A deeply entrenched infrastructure on Israel's border is in ruins. The great hero has had to go so deep into hiding that Nasrallah has been called "the underground mullah."

Most important, Hezbollah's political gains within Lebanon during the war have proved illusory. As the dust settles, the Lebanese are furious at Hezbollah for provoking a war that brought them nothing but devastation -- and then crowing about victory amid the ruins.

The Western media were once again taken in by the mystique of the "Arab street." The mob came out to cheer Hezbollah for raining rockets on Israel -- surprise! -- and the Arab governments that had initially criticized Hezbollah went conveniently silent. Now that the mob has gone home, Hezbollah is under renewed attack -- in newspapers in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait...

Maybe the exploding cluster bombs in future years will remind the Lebanese to stay the hell out of Israel.

UN Emergency Relief Coordinator Jan Egeland has called Israel "completely immoral" for using them in residential areas.....

...The Lebanese know that Israel bombed easy-to-repair airport runways when it could have destroyed the new airport terminal and set Lebanon back 10 years. The Lebanese know that Israel attacked the Hezbollah TV towers when it could have pulverized Beirut's power grid, a billion-dollar reconstruction. The Lebanese know that the next time, Israel's leadership will hardly be as hesitant and restrained. Hezbollah dares not risk that next time....