Setanta wrote:Foxfyre wrote:Setanta wrote:I did read the thread. I've quoted your statement from authority. When challenged on that by Revel, you simply made a vague reference to what you'd heard on television. Then Walter does his usual good work of going right to the source, and now you're attempting to suggest that you were seeking the answer to a question. The only question involved was Revel's question about the authority for your unsupported statement that there were 2000 unarmed UN personnel, and that Kofi Annan was sending in 2000 more unarmed personnel, and that the United States was going to pay for it.
As usual, you make statements from authority to support you highly partisan and often bigoted point of view, and when challenged on the veracity of your statements, you try to dance out of it.
You need to brush up on your reading skills. It wasn't Revel who challenged it but Advocate. It was a reasonable question. I said I'd try to find something to support what I heard on TV and radio yesterday and today. If you really want to screw me over with something, Setanta, you need to look harder.
Yes, you are correct, Advocate and not Revel asked you to support your unsubstantiated contention. Hardly a major issue of reading skills given that the post doesn't appear on the page on which i posted.
However, we can compare this to your false statement that you were seeking the answer to a question--you weren't. You made an unsupported statement as though from authority about the UN in the Lebanon, their rules of engagement, and who would pay for it. Now, challenged on that, you are apparently willing to back down.
It isn't something "to screw [you] over"--it's a direct and plausible challenge to your falsification of the record of the exchange of posts in this thread, a legitimate activity for any member here, whether or not you hate that member. I made no comment about your original silly statement, because it was immediately challenged. I only commented when you attempted to falsely portray your unsubstantiated statement as seeking an answer to a question, which it clearly was not.
If you could coherently follow the train of discussion, and did not resort to unsupported statements, and then try to dance out of them, you would not waste everyone's time as you habitually do, and as Advocate (i checked to be sure so that you'd have no weasel room in it) has pointed out that you have done.
Well if you can't bother to get your sources right, I think you have a tough time having the authority to question mine. Good day.
ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS
1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;
2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;
3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;
4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;
5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;
6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;
7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;
8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;
9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;
10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;
11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;
12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGESS WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;
13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;
14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT
WITH ARMS;
15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;
16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;
18. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH
CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.
I didn't have a source which needed to be gotten right. I quoted you--you made a statement which you have subsequently been unable to support. I challenged you because you willfully mis-characterized your statement as a search for the answer to a question.
I questioned your characterization of your statement as the search for an answer--your authority for the statement had already been challenged, and not by me.
If you can not keep coherent track of a rhetorical exchange with any more facility than that, perhaps you have no business attempting to engage in debate.
If Egypt and/or Saudi Arabia were to enter this war at this point, it would be on Israel's side. That staggering realization is not due to any sort of a shia vs. sunni thing; it's due to a sane vs insane thing. The rulers of Egypt and Saudi Arabia know from sixty years of experience that if they do not **** with Israel, Israel will not **** with them. Obey one very simple and well defined rule, and they have nothing whatever to fear, at least from Israel.
Having a guy who wields the kind of power that Mr. D***head over there in Iran does totally lose it, on the other hand, scares the rulers of Egypt and other Arab countries to pieces.
Totally losing it is worse than being a psychopath like Hitler or Slick KKKlintler. Being a psychopath has never been any sort of a defense in courtrooms because it does not involve losing touch with reality, e.g. seeing kangaroos and hyenas coming after oneself when there are none.
Advocate, if you're going to post Israeli propaganda, have the decency to provide a source.
I took your first line verbatim an put it in a search engine, and got 351 hits for those exact words. This is obvious e-mail proliferation with a distinctly viral air.
If you have the original source, that would sure help, as a good deal of this is extemely biased interpretation. So far, on the google hits, we've got Israelis peddling this, Jewish supporters of Israel supporting this, and Christian fundamentalist supporters of Israel peddling this. It would be nice to have a source.
Advocate wrote:
7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVE.
You might mention that the al-aksa mosque is basically nothing more than another example of the slammite penchant for building mosques overtop of everybody elses churches and synagogues. Put me in charge of Israel and the first thing I'd do would be demolish it.
gungasnake wrote:
You might mention that the al-aksa mosque is basically nothing more than another example of the slammite penchant for building mosques overtop of everybody elses churches and synagogues. Put me in charge of Israel and the first thing I'd do would be demolish it.
And consequently you then would go on demollishing the Christian churches on Germanic places of worship ...
Ehem, would you allow Christian churches to stay at their places, who were built on Israelites temples?
Set, I apologize for forwarding the propaganda, which I received in an e-mail. I realize that it is subject to challenge, but I think it is basically accurate on almost all the points. I thought it might be of interest.
Experts: Force Alone Won't Stop Hezbollah
Military analysts view Israel's goals as overly ambitious.
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=12747
The entire tenor is highly interpretive, Advocate. No "state of Isreal" existed in the 14th century BCE in the sense that we understand it in the modern world. The Jewish people were deeply divided upon confessional lines between Baal worshippers and Jawists (those who worshiped the one known to Christians as Jehovah). There was little continuity of rule among the tribes, and they were not the conquering heroes they portray themselves to have been. In the time of Solomon and David, they were very likely a client kingdom of the Phoenicians, and that was likely the only time when there actually was a unified Jewish Kingdom. That piece of propaganda ignores the Babylonian captivity and the centuries of domination by first the Persians, and then the Greco-Macedonian kingdom in Persia. It ignores that Judas Maccabeus's successful rebellion against the "Persians" was actually a rebellion against a corrupt and degenerate Greco-Macedonian state which was at that time succumbing to the Parthians. It ignores that within less than a century and a half, Palestine had become a senatorial province in the domain of the consular province of Syria.
I won't go on and on, but that is propaganda pure and simple--it deals in half-truths and distortions, and is intended to be preached to the choir who already sings hosanahs to Israel.
Advocate
Quote:Set, I apologize for forwarding the propaganda, which I received in an e-mail. I realize that it is subject to challenge, but I think it is basically accurate on almost all the points. I thought it might be of interest.
Wow! this is the first time i have ever come across 'Accurate Propaganda'
Thanks for that.
Brand X wrote:If you investigated further, revel, I bet you'd find most if not all those quotes were taken out of context.
The site from which they came is not exactly without bias.
If you go to the site they have sources. Push on the little dates things and it will take you to the links. I know think progress is a highly liberal biased site, it don't pretend to otherwise. However, it does do it's homework and it is always maxed out with sources and links.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/21/right-wing-evacuees/
Thanks, revel.
Okay, the president of Lebanon said that if Israel comes across with a ground invasion that he will send the Lebanese army to join Hezbollah in fighting Israel.
Now we are getting a pictures of the marriage of Hezbollah and the gov't of Lebanon.
The reaction of Israel is becoming more clear now, it's about to get very very intense....the pres of Lebanon is insane.
Brand, we sure do see how insane Israel's demolition of Lebanon is. Completely. VIDEO: Lebanese Forced to Bury Casualties in Mass Grave
David Edwards
Published: Friday July 21, 2006
BBC, reporting from south Lebanon, says that villages are "being hit and paying the price" as Israel tries to destroy Hezbollah with "sheer firepower."
Normally, the bodies of the dead are taken home for burial. Without power and refrigeration, decomposing bodies must be quickly buried in mass graves. In one scene, a bulldozer covers 80 bodies with loads of dirt as loved ones look on.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/VIDEO_Lebanese_Forced_to_Bury_Casualties_0721.html
blueflame1 wrote:Brand, we sure do see how insane Israel's demolition of Lebanon is. Completely. VIDEO: Lebanese Forced to Bury Casualties in Mass Grave
David Edwards
Published: Friday July 21, 2006
BBC, reporting from south Lebanon, says that villages are "being hit and paying the price" as Israel tries to destroy Hezbollah with "sheer firepower."
Normally, the bodies of the dead are taken home for burial. Without power and refrigeration, decomposing bodies must be quickly buried in mass graves. In one scene, a bulldozer covers 80 bodies with loads of dirt as loved ones look on.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/VIDEO_Lebanese_Forced_to_Bury_Casualties_0721.html
If he's feeling that spunky about it then he could have ordered the Lebanese army to remove Hezbollah, obviously the fact that they were there building their forces to attack Israel was just fine with him.
If I were Israel I would keep going and let the Lebanese soldiers fall where they may.
Setanta wrote:
In the time of Solomon and David, they were very likely a client kingdom of the Phoenicians.....
The queen of Egypt (Hatshepsut) does not pay state visits to a "client kingdom of the phoenicians"....
Brand, the Lebanese army is no match for Hezballah or the Israeli army. At least now we see that Israel attacked Lebanon as a whole and used Hezballah as an excuse. Israel better hit and run or learn the meaning of quagmire as Bushie was forced to in Iraq. Maybe they'll use WMD?
blueflame1 wrote:Brand, the Lebanese army is no match for Hezballah or the Israeli army. At least now we see that Israel attacked Lebanon as a whole and used Hezballah as an excuse. Israel better hit and run or learn the meaning of quagmire as Bushie was forced to in Iraq. Maybe they'll use WMD?
I agree the Lebanese army is probably inadequate, and I agree that Israel is going after more than Hezbollah knowing that at least the president of Lebanon is a puppet of Syria.
Seats in the gov't filled by Hezbollah, now this latest rhetoric from the pres.
Lebanon is a terrorist supporting state and they're about to pay the piper.
Brand, Prime Minister Fuad Siniora is an anti-Syrian leader very much betrayed by Israel.
His actions aren't matching your description.
